New "dragons den" business idea, "importing lhd cars to sell in the UK". CRIKEY!!

[vaughant]

We're considering a move abroad, most likely Spain or Portugal, that kind of thing.

Browsing as you do in gumtree for suitable lhd cars /vans, I thought to myself fuck me these are expensive!!! 

£1500 for a 2001 1.6 zafira!!!! 

£5k for a Ford fusion!! 

Got me thinking doing an lhd conversion on a UK car maybe far cheaper or is it just the heavy tax etc to get it here /chancers causing the huge uplift in prices? 

I mean even in the covid madness a zafira a on a Y reg wasn't a £1500 car, £7-800 at best. 

I mean, I look at this as the best value car on there so far 😂😂😂. 

Please view this ad:

LEFT HAND DRIVE 2006 RENAULT GRAND SCENIC 1.5 DCI [DIESEL] 7 SEATER | LHD,
https://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/left-hand-drive-2006-renault-grand-scenic-15-dci-diesel-7-seater-lhd/1443845299

Price: £ 1,995

Download the application from the Google Play Store.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gumtree.android

[sutty2006]

Have you compared a similar RHD vehicle for value? 

[Split_Pin]

Am I missing something? The title says you are thinking of importing LHD cars to the UK but further down you are saying you'll do an LHD conversion on a UK car?

 

[sierraman]

Historically LHD used to be cheap, a left hooker Golf for example wasn’t as desirable as the RHD. But since 2000’s they have shot up in value, you might find converting it in somewhere like Poland might be cheaper, Labour costs on this will be massive in U.K. Also daft things like wipers and lights will need changing, you’d effectively need a written off left hooker to swap every across. Personally I’d just buy a new one in Spain. 

[Jazoli]

Just buy a car when you are in Spain, re registration and taxes and will soon wipe out any perceived savings you'll make, be prepared for a rude awakening with prices though 😂

It is usually cheaper to buy a LHD car here and take it with you, however its not all as straightforward as you think as you will have to re-import/register it and it isn't straightforward unless you speaka da lingo, that LHD scenic you have linked will be €5k in Spain or Portugal 

[Zelandeth]

I'd think in this day and age converting a car from RHD to LHD or vice versa is a non starter unless the car is something really desirable to start with.

Back when you were looking at the likes of Ladas, it was probably a day's work, and all the handful of parts involved were readily available new for £not much or in the case of things like the dash itself, bugger all from a rotten one.

Given the sheer amount of bits involved and the degree that cars are just not designed to be taken apart these days it just sounds like a nightmare.  Finding that a bit of the wiring loom doesn't reach on a 70s design was annoying.  Finding a bit of the loom doesn't reach on a 2000s design sounds like a world of pain. 

If you're wanting an LHD car for regular use abroad because you're there regularly, just buying one there is surely less hassle and most likely cheaper.

[sierraman]

2 minutes ago, Jazoli said:

Just buy a car when you are in Spain, re registration and taxes and will soon wipe out any perceived savings you'll make, be prepared for a rude awakening with prices though 😂

New cars aren’t that much dearer than an old one, a friend who visits Portugal regularly says there isn’t really a second hand market, people tend to just buy things then run them till they stop. 

[Jazoli]

Just now, sierraman said:

New cars aren’t that much dearer than an old one, a friend who visits Portugal regularly says there isn’t really a second hand market, people tend to just buy things then run them till they stop. 

I know, Iived in Spain for 10 years

[beko1987]

40 minutes ago, sierraman said:

Historically LHD used to be cheap, a left hooker Golf for example wasn’t as desirable as the RHD. But since 2000’s they have shot up in value, you might find converting it in somewhere like Poland might be cheaper, Labour costs on this will be massive in U.K. Also daft things like wipers and lights will need changing, you’d effectively need a written off left hooker to swap every across. Personally I’d just buy a new one in Spain. 

I remember seeing loads of left handed mk4 astras in the early 2000s. Always assumed they were really cheap. Always on x and y plates iirc

[sierraman]

10 minutes ago, beko1987 said:

I remember seeing loads of left handed mk4 astras in the early 2000s. Always assumed they were really cheap. Always on x and y plates iirc

I would have thought it would make for a pain in the arse in the U.K. for overtaking and at parking machines etc. 

[Zelandeth]

Given the red tape and costs involved in changing ownership of a car in a lot of EU countries (Italy in particular being an absolute nightmare if I remember right) it doesn't surprise me that there's less of a used market.

Especially in areas where the usual headaches of rust after a few years that we have here aren't really a thing.

[castros_bro]

Have a look at the cost of registering your non-Portugese car in Portugal, the import tax will almost certainly be more then the original cost + conversion - there's an online vehicle import cost calculator somewhere. Have a check on a few of the expat sites for a lot of moaning about cost getting a foreign car registered - there is one get-out clause if you move here you can import one vehicle tax free (terms and conditions apply).

OXL Portugal has a few thousand secondhand cars available.

https://www.olx.pt/d/carros-motos-e-barcos/carros/

[vaughant]

3 hours ago, Split_Pin said:

Am I missing something? The title says you are thinking of importing LHD cars to the UK but further down you are saying you'll do an LHD conversion on a UK car?

 

Sorry was meant to be humorous hence the dragons den reference, I just couldn't get over how expensive the comparitive car was in LHD format!!! 

[vaughant]

1 hour ago, castros_bro said:

Have a look at the cost of registering your non-Portugese car in Portugal, the import tax will almost certainly be more then the original cost + conversion - there's an online vehicle import cost calculator somewhere. Have a check on a few of the expat sites for a lot of moaning about cost getting a foreign car registered - there is one get-out clause if you move here you can import one vehicle tax free (terms and conditions apply).

OXL Portugal has a few thousand secondhand cars available.

https://www.olx.pt/d/carros-motos-e-barcos/carros/

Thanks for that 👍👍👍👍. 

 

Sooooooooo, despite Europe all being mates, can you not simply buy a car in say Germany /Holland then re-register without the import tax? As its part of the EU or as always is that all one big con? 

In all honesty, it's me playing a bit of a long game with myself 🤣🤣🤣. 

 

I was thinking of buying a van or the like in the UK but lhd, then either doing the necessary work to make it a bit more of a dayvan and taking it out there with all my shit ready to go kind of thing. 

Just me fantasising as always. 

We've got a newish merc that I'll either keep over here as it's looking less likely to be a perm move straightaway or sell and buy something half tidy out there. 

[vaughant]

3 hours ago, sutty2006 said:

Have you compared a similar RHD vehicle for value? 

Yeah at least half price in rhd UK format. 

The fusion for example was on an 11 plate and £4995, a quick search reveals many at way under £2k.

[TataBobu]

I did a conversion once. When my previous Elantra was perishing, asked my wife what car she would like. Her answer was "an identical Elantra", so started looking. In Romania I could only find end-of-life examples for the equivalent of 1000 - 1500 pounds, so started looking abroad. Found one near Ipswich, and the cost breakdown is as follows:

500 pounds the car. 500 pounds getting it to my doorstep. 500 pounds for the work, about 1000 pounds for the parts needed (both the ones I took from my end-of-life donor car, and what I bought new) and around 400 pounds for paperwork (registration, no import tax as UK was still in EU at the time). I still kick myself for not keeping the old one's gearbox, as it was "longer".

So for a grand total of about 3000 pounds I have an ex RHD, currently LHD 500 pounds Elantra. But my wife is happy with the car, so I have that going for me, which is nice. But on 5th gear, at 3000 rpm, it's 10 mph slower than the old one.

[vaughant]

Yes tbhit was more my shock of seeing how bloody expensive lhd stuff is in the UK. 

There was a lovely R5 turbo in blue but not raider spec for 12.5k, not sure quite how practical it would be. 

I have a golf gti cabby and my guess is there's still a few mk1's about on the continent for not too much €€€, I reckon that would be quite easy to lhd. 

Do they have historic vehicle stuff abroad? 

Still obviously another 5yrs to go though to qualify in Britain 🤣🤣🤣🤣. 

[sutty2006]

5 hours ago, vaughant said:

Yeah at least half price in rhd UK format. 

The fusion for example was on an 11 plate and £4995, a quick search reveals many at way under £2k.

Jesus H. 
 

maybe folk think LHD stuff is rare so they stick the “rare” tax on them. Years ago LHD stuff used to be half the price because they were harder to sell over here. 

[sierraman]

I don’t think old cars are looked at in the same way we do, something like a 1985 Renault 11 would be just looked at as an old car not as a potential classic, so you might cash in on the indifference. Expect dents and in some cases, rust in funny places like round the windows. 

I have seen some LHD cars advertised as being ‘ideal for a villa’ that quite frankly wouldn’t even get to the ferry. 

[castros_bro]

 

Vehicles in the "classic" category (which varies from place to place) do get special considerations when being imported and registered in other EU countries.  Obviously hiding a  classic UK registered old motorbike in your villa shed and keeping the free MOT and TAX up to date would almost work except for, theoretically,  if stopped by the special vehicle police,  having to prove when the vehicle crossed into the country.  

 

 

 

[artdjones]

20 hours ago, vaughant said:

Sooooooooo, despite Europe all being mates, can you not simply buy a car in say Germany /Holland then re-register without the import tax? 

It's stopped being a thing in Ireland now, but a large part of the second hand market used to be imports from the UK. Of course, when the single market came in there was no import duty on them anymore. Apparently though it's ok to just call it vehicle registration tax instead.

Now you would have to pay duty and VRT so the trade has basically stopped.

[Dobloseven]

Reminds me of when a local garage, in the early eighties had a batch of new LHD Triumph Dolomites for sale. Advertised them as ready for when the UK went over to driving on the other side!Wonder if there's someone with one stashed away, patiently waiting. Would think insurance on a LHD conversion might be fun. 

Any modifications? 

Yes it's got a towbar and a rear spoiler.

Anything else, or is that it? 

Oh yes, almost forgot, all the controls and instruments have been moved over to the other side using parts from another car altogether!

[DodgeRover]

There's places will pick up your RHD Freelander and deliver it back LHD converted for £500, a friend did one to take back home to Slovakia, from memory it was registered by post elsewhere in Europe first (maybe Romania) to make it easier to register there.

[Rust Collector]

Some countries are a bit awkward regarding where imports can come from, even if they’re already LHD or in the EU. For example, from memory Slovakia only allow direct import/registration from neighbouring countries, if you look on Slovak car sales sites you’ll see filters to show cars from Austria, Czech Republic etc. so that you don’t see cars from places that have complicated import procedures. Plates/registration are issued by local police stations and there isn’t a centralised organisation like the DVLA so I suspect this has some bearing on the awkwardness of the process.

My in-laws to be have a RHD mk1 Frontera at their house in the Tatras. I asked how they managed to get a RHD car registered, they said they didn’t they just only drive it locally and the village police don’t care provided you stay off the main road 😅

I suspect that the reason LHD prices are so high here is that there most be some countries that are lenient on their import and so there is some kind of market for shipping them there for a profit.

Compared to most countries we have it incredibly easy here in the UK when it comes to importing cars - pay duty and VAT when it lands, submit NOVA declaration, put the car through MOT, send a form, the original logbook and a cheque for £55 plus car tax to the DVLA and you’re sorted.

[Schaefft]

Rhd cars are generally worth considerably less than LHD cars (unless it's a rhd-only scene car, JDM etc). That's one of the reasons used cars are so cheap in the UK. However, I am not sure if that is still the case when someone actually wants to sell their LHD car in a rhd market (unless it's a LHD-only scene car, us import etc.)... I would never even consider doing that as it'll be worth more in its home market guaranteed.

[outlaw118]

@Nev has recently moved to Lanzarote, and took a LHD Merc 200E (W123?) with him, and has a lhd VW T4/5 outside Mutha&Fatha_Nev/Outlaw's which he'll be driving back in a couple of days.

There's an Izuzu Trooper and a BMW 740 on the fleet over there, both bought locally.

I'll alert him to this thread, and if he can get near a PC he can throw some light on things, I'm sure.

[OM646]

On 10/22/2022 at 10:31 AM, sierraman said:

New cars aren’t that much dearer than an old one, a friend who visits Portugal regularly says there isn’t really a second hand market, people tend to just buy things then run them till they stop. 

Tbh. in Portugal and a lot of people buy used cars. 

Lots of VW lickers too, with everything 1.9 TDI still being stupid expensive for what it is.

it's also very common to import used from Germany, or was, before they started getting expensive there too.

[Remspoor]

On 10/22/2022 at 8:18 AM, vaughant said:

We're considering a move abroad, most likely Spain or Portugal, that kind of thing.

Browsing as you do in gumtree for suitable lhd cars /vans, I thought to myself fuck me these are expensive!!! 

£1500 for a 2001 1.6 zafira!!!! 

£5k for a Ford fusion!! 

Got me thinking doing an lhd conversion on a UK car maybe far cheaper or is it just the heavy tax etc to get it here /chancers causing the huge uplift in prices? 

I mean even in the covid madness a zafira a on a Y reg wasn't a £1500 car, £7-800 at best. 

I mean, I look at this as the best value car on there so far 😂😂😂. 

Please view this ad:

LEFT HAND DRIVE 2006 RENAULT GRAND SCENIC 1.5 DCI [DIESEL] 7 SEATER | LHD,
https://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/left-hand-drive-2006-renault-grand-scenic-15-dci-diesel-7-seater-lhd/1443845299

Price: £ 1,995

Download the application from the Google Play Store.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gumtree.android

First off have you seen the hoops you now have to jump through to get a visa to live in either country? I believe Portugal is easier than Spain , that is your first worry.

But you must realise that from your Jan 2021 thread. Nothing has changed since. PS you will have to re sit your driving test There is no exchange agreement for DLs in place The UK embassy keeps issuing bulletins on FB to that effect.

I also wrote a guide on how to purchase a car in Spain. I do not think anything has changed except for paperwork delays due to Covid.

 

 

[Chas4545]

You do know that you cannot now just decide to live in Spain, Portugal, or any other Euroland country, cos of Brexit ending that right for Brits?

Unless you have that countries passport it will have to be a visa application and crossed fingers.

Having lived in Europe and been resident, pre Brexit, I agree with those that  say buy a local car, its so very complex  to register a uk car  . First you will be asked to prove that you are a legal resident.   The car will be the least of your problems. Are you fluent in the language?

Sorry for the negativity.  I worry about people moving to europe on a whim. Its so much harder now.

[lesapandre]

36 minutes ago, Chas4545 said:

You do know that you cannot now just decide to live in Spain, Portugal, or any other Euroland country, cos of Brexit ending that right for Brits?

Unless you have that countries passport it will have to be a visa application and crossed fingers.

Having lived in Europe and been resident, pre Brexit, I agree with those that  say buy a local car, its so very complex  to register a uk car  . First you will be asked to prove that you are a legal resident.   The car will be the least of your problems. Are you fluent in the language?

Sorry for the negativity.  I worry about people moving to europe on a whim. Its so much harder now.

The French system is relatively straightforward - the forms and information auto-translate into English:

https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/N367

But to buy a car you need to be resident in France and have an 'electronic identity ' on the French Government system, except...

If you are buying a car to export to the UK which you then transport out of the country - that is more straightforward as once the transfer takes place the car loses it French identity.  👨‍🎨