Failed attempts to crack the UK

[Chris2cv]

On 10/13/2022 at 1:19 PM, C1am said:

Great Wall - had a go for a few years. 

We sold them for a while! They had the rather crude Steed pick up, but we were promised a complete new range of vehicles "soon".  Soon kept drifting away into the future, and while we did sell quite a few steeds, they were not very inspiring. But their  owners seemed to love them.  I thought that it was like a cheap L200, but then found that they weren't actually much cheaper! It wasn't that they were bad, they just weren't anything special.

Eventually, with no sign of the new models arriving, as I understand it, updates were planned for the steed, so their availability seemed to plummet. We could sell them, but we couldn't get them! Customers didn't want to wait an unknown period for their cars. Eventually, we gave up and went over to Mitsubishi. Oh! 

[tul66]

On 10/21/2022 at 11:31 AM, ProgRocker said:

I think this was a design proposal for the car that would become the Lancia Delta.

Such a shame that FSO didn't have the funds to develop the Polonez further. It used the same platform as the 125p saloon, which in turn used the early 1960s Fiat 1500 platform if I am not mistaken. They do look extremely narrow compared with western built cars.

I always thought they had the look of the 1970s ESV cars about them.

[Skut]

The Jensen Tempo van/truck. Made under licence in the UK so stretching the point a bit perhaps.

[Adrian_pt]

Opel tried to flog their models here in the 50s and 60s - but must have been very few sold. Interestingly* London seems to have had a fair few of the more unusual foreign makes. Here's an Olympia Caravan.

German makes also had a crack in the UK in the late 30s - a friend's great uncle was the Auto Union dealer in London and till a few years ago the family had an original 1938 DKW in the garage. DKWs were the most popular, I think, but hardly made an impact and then other events got in the way.

[Missy Charm]

On 18/10/2022 at 10:05, lesapandre said:

Looking at the current crop of cars - are there any sure-fire upcoming failures? Or is market research that much better these days?

Your starter for 10...

That thing is nothing but an egregious example of billionaire ego-stroking.  Fair enough, it's Ratcliffe's dream car.  Congratulations to him for designing and building it.  The thing is, however, that he should have built one.  Doing so would have satisfied his needs and that would have been that.  Assuming that other people would also want his dream car is arrogant beyond belief; they don't and they won't buy them.  The factory is a vanity project that he'll support until he can't afford to, or the tax benefits dry up and the workers will end up on the dole.  Good for you, Ratcliffe, but you aren't the first.  Remember John DeLorean?  The Cizeta-Moroder V16?  The Wiegert-Vector thingy?  They never work.  

Vanity cars are like vanity books: by all means have one to show off, but don't expect to compete on the open market.  You don't know what you are doing.  My dream car is a properly converted RHD Mercury Monarch with a manual and a warmed up engine.  That is not your dream car, and I don't expect it to be.  

[lesapandre]

Sometimes it is individual vehicles by a mainstream maker:

This did not sell particularly will and is now defunct.

[Ghosty]

Merc buyers don't want a pickup. Especially when it's just a bloody rebadged Navara. 

 

It baffles me that the Citan is still available for how few they sell. I saw a passenger version with windows once, I never knew they were a thing. Can't imagine they sell well. 

[OM646]

58 minutes ago, Ghosty said:

Merc buyers don't want a pickup. Especially when it's just a bloody rebadged Navara. 

 

It baffles me that the Citan is still available for how few they sell. I saw a passenger version with windows once, I never knew they were a thing. Can't imagine they sell well. 

The passenger Citan is now sold as a T Class.

 

the T180d is currently the cheapest thing with a merc badge you can get here. I sat in one, it was nice but not Mercedes level of nice. At least it has Mercedes steering wheel, clocks and radio now 

[MiniMinorMk3]

19 hours ago, Missy Charm said:

  Good for you, Ratcliffe, but you aren't the first.  Remember John DeLorean?  The Cizeta-Moroder V16?  The Wiegert-Vector thingy?  They never work.  

 

What about Lamborghini, Pagani, Konigsegg. They were all one mans dream of the ultimate car.

[OM646]

1 hour ago, MiniMinorMk3 said:

What about Lamborghini, Pagani, Konigsegg. They were all one mans dream of the ultimate car.

Lamborghini killed two birds with one stone.

1- his dream car 

2- "fuck off Enzo you arrogant little prick" 

[martc]

All of the cars, motorbikes, aeroplanes, fork lift trucks etc manufactured today are made by a company founded by somebody who had an idea about what their ideal car, motorbike, aeroplane, fork lift truck etc was. Whether it was a totally original idea or what they thought was an improvement on someone else's idea (even if that idea was to cynically rip off the punter).

For some it was a success and you can still buy their products today, and for some see the history books or some of the posts above....

 

[Missy Charm]

7 hours ago, MiniMinorMk3 said:

What about Lamborghini, Pagani, Konigsegg. They were all one mans dream of the ultimate car.

They were all established engineers, designers and vehicle builders at the time of putting their first cars into production, thus knew what they were doing.  DeLorean hadn't really done anything outside the corporate structure, Wiegert tried to go to market with a barely running prototype and Moroder was a music producer; none actually got it right.  

[Richard_FM]

On 11/30/2022 at 3:30 PM, Missy Charm said:

That thing is nothing but an egregious example of billionaire ego-stroking.  Fair enough, it's Ratcliffe's dream car.  Congratulations to him for designing and building it.  The thing is, however, that he should have built one.  Doing so would have satisfied his needs and that would have been that.  Assuming that other people would also want his dream car is arrogant beyond belief; they don't and they won't buy them.  The factory is a vanity project that he'll support until he can't afford to, or the tax benefits dry up and the workers will end up on the dole.  Good for you, Ratcliffe, but you aren't the first.  Remember John DeLorean?  The Cizeta-Moroder V16?  The Wiegert-Vector thingy?  They never work.  

Vanity cars are like vanity books: by all means have one to show off, but don't expect to compete on the open market.  You don't know what you are doing.  My dream car is a properly converted RHD Mercury Monarch with a manual and a warmed up engine.  That is not your dream car, and I don't expect it to be.  

Like this one?

[Missy Charm]

Just now, Richard_FM said:

Like this one?

Yes and no.  I'd want a four door saloon as they're better looking.  Still have a vinyl roof, though! 

[RichardK]

On 10/13/2022 at 1:19 PM, C1am said:

Great Wall - had a go for a few years. 

Still are. Ora Funky Cat. IM Motors bringing it in; Steed is closely related to Isuzu/Chevy pickup, IM is Isuzu/Subaru...

Sometimes it just takes a while and financing is key; what probably tipped MG into sustainability was SAAB going and GM's financial arm being able to provide financing to SAIC.

[RichardK]

On 11/30/2022 at 3:30 PM, Missy Charm said:

That thing is nothing but an egregious example of billionaire ego-stroking.  Fair enough, it's Ratcliffe's dream car.  Congratulations to him for designing and building it.  The thing is, however, that he should have built one.  Doing so would have satisfied his needs and that would have been that.  Assuming that other people would also want his dream car is arrogant beyond belief; they don't and they won't buy them.  The factory is a vanity project that he'll support until he can't afford to, or the tax benefits dry up and the workers will end up on the dole.  Good for you, Ratcliffe, but you aren't the first.  Remember John DeLorean?  The Cizeta-Moroder V16?  The Wiegert-Vector thingy?  They never work.  

Vanity cars are like vanity books: by all means have one to show off, but don't expect to compete on the open market.  You don't know what you are doing.  My dream car is a properly converted RHD Mercury Monarch with a manual and a warmed up engine.  That is not your dream car, and I don't expect it to be.  

Anyone who wants a British 4x4 like a Defender used to be needs to talk to Foers in Yorkshire. Ibex is less plush than Grenadier, but V8 and honest.

If Ineos meet their launch price I'd want one, but would too busy working out how long to marinate my hat before eating it.

[RichardK]

On 11/30/2022 at 5:20 PM, lesapandre said:

Sometimes it is individual vehicles by a mainstream maker:

This did not sell particularly will and is now defunct.

Highly priced used though - because whether Mercedes buyers want a pickup or not, Pickup buyers LOVE a gauche status symbol with no substance.

Shame the Ranger has become so bloody good. But the Platinum should sort that.

[RichardK]

On 10/17/2022 at 3:19 PM, MiniMinorMk3 said:

Another Mitsu derived flop

Smart ForFour

That wasn't a flop AFAICR; like the Roadster a shift in the parent company changed a relationship; Smart = Mercedes during DaimlerChrysler and Chrysler had significant ties to Mitsubishi, and there's something in the back of my mind regarding Nedcar as well - the factory that made Volvo/DAF things and also the Carisma/S40. It may even be the Ford PAG/Volvo thing - I forget when things happen or break but associate Ford with post-S60/XC90 Volvos, i.e. after the Renault engine/Mitsubishi partnerships.

Suspect not many survive because of dealer network etc. but the ForFour wasn't a rare sight new and it's allegedly not a bad car, I've always wanted one.

[ProgRocker]

I learned recently that the reintroduced Toyota Camry Hybrid and Corolla saloon hybrid are no longer available for sale. 

[lesapandre]

8 hours ago, RichardK said:

Highly priced used though - because whether Mercedes buyers want a pickup or not, Pickup buyers LOVE a gauche status symbol with no substance.

Shame the Ranger has become so bloody good. But the Platinum should sort that.

Yes when I had a look they've held their value really well.  

[warch]

On 11/30/2022 at 5:24 PM, Ghosty said:

Merc buyers don't want a pickup. Especially when it's just a bloody rebadged Navara. 

I'd assumed Mercedes were trying to sell to the sort of people who buy Mercedes that look like this. A bit like MAN and their light van range. 

[5speedracer]

2 hours ago, warch said:

I'd assumed Mercedes were trying to sell to the sort of people who buy Mercedes that look like this. A bit like MAN and their light van range. 

250 tonne load sir?

Certainly, when would you like it moved?

[Dobloseven]

11 hours ago, RichardK said:

That wasn't a flop AFAICR; like the Roadster a shift in the parent company changed a relationship; Smart = Mercedes during DaimlerChrysler and Chrysler had significant ties to Mitsubishi, and there's something in the back of my mind regarding Nedcar as well - the factory that made Volvo/DAF things and also the Carisma/S40. It may even be the Ford PAG/Volvo thing - I forget when things happen or break but associate Ford with post-S60/XC90 Volvos, i.e. after the Renault engine/Mitsubishi partnerships.

Suspect not many survive because of dealer network etc. but the ForFour wasn't a rare sight new and it's allegedly not a bad car, I've always wanted one.

Daughter who lives in Dubai has one in the garage of the house they own in England, for when they come home for the holidays. Theirs is a diesel automatic, with a sort of automated manual box. 3 cylinder 1.5 engine is apparently a Mercedes creation. To confuse matters further, it's actually a five seater. They managed to get three slimline(and expensive!) child seats across the back seat in the summer. They had some problems with the rear wheel bearing overheating and I was quite surprised that I could buy a new bearing, caliper, disc and pads on a Sunday morning from a local parts place off the shelf. It's a funny little car, definitely Autoshite material! 

[warren t claim]

21 hours ago, Missy Charm said:

They were all established engineers, designers and vehicle builders at the time of putting their first cars into production, thus knew what they were doing.  DeLorean hadn't really done anything outside the corporate structure, Wiegert tried to go to market with a barely running prototype and Moroder was a music producer; none actually got it right.  

Someone who owns a boutique hotel near me owned both a Noble and an Ascari.

[MKT]

On 10/13/2022 at 12:17 PM, sierraman said:

Are there any left that were proper U.K. supplied Dacia Denems? The only one I have ever seen was in a scrapyard. I’d heard the Romanian embassy had a fleet until the late 90’s. 

There's an A reg one that was in Norn for a while that's now in a museum in Romania. It was owned by Sam Glover at one point and had its own thread on here.

 

[808 Estate]

On 11/30/2022 at 3:30 PM, Missy Charm said:

My dream car is a properly converted RHD Mercury Monarch with a manual and a warmed up engine. 

In beige?

[jamescarruthers]

On 12/2/2022 at 3:40 AM, RichardK said:

That wasn't a flop AFAICR; like the Roadster a shift in the parent company changed a relationship; Smart = Mercedes during DaimlerChrysler and Chrysler had significant ties to Mitsubishi, and there's something in the back of my mind regarding Nedcar as well - the factory that made Volvo/DAF things and also the Carisma/S40. It may even be the Ford PAG/Volvo thing - I forget when things happen or break but associate Ford with post-S60/XC90 Volvos, i.e. after the Renault engine/Mitsubishi partnerships.

Suspect not many survive because of dealer network etc. but the ForFour wasn't a rare sight new and it's allegedly not a bad car, I've always wanted one.

I’ve talked myself in to one for a commuter mobile for a new job. Maybe next year!  

[sierraman]

On 12/1/2022 at 10:54 PM, Missy Charm said:

Yes and no.  I'd want a four door saloon as they're better looking.  Still have a vinyl roof, though! 

A handful were imported to the U.K. during the 70’s and converted to RHD. I have no idea if any survive, I would imagine crippling fuel economy and parts difficulties will have seen them off. Again could be wrong here but I think they had a chain drive across to the steering conversion. 

[RichardK]

The Pacers definitely used the chain-behind-the-dash approach

[Richard_FM]

I've heard a few cars converted with the chain method, & the pedals using rods.

On Flickr someone has a road test of the very same Monarch I posted earlier (more than one page):