Failed attempts to crack the UK

[New POD]

54 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

I know of someone who has a RHD UK-spec Cadillac Seville and reckons it's pretty rare now.

I also have a vague memory that when my dad bought his Zafira 20 years ago, the Vauxhall garage had a separate small section of the showroom for American GM products with a Camaro in it.

 

Interestingly the Omega, failed to sell that many in the states badged as the Cadillac Catera

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Catera

[chaseracer]

1 hour ago, Dan the van said:

Panhard,whose wonderfully quirky and very expensive cars were available in the UK from 1957 to 1967 in rhd flavour.I well remember when I was a lad a chap across the road had a white Pl17(and an impossibly attractive mistress who drove a yellow Fiat 128 estate but I digress). He upgraded to a 1967 CT24 in red which he kept for a good few years.

😎😁

[Dan the van]

30 minutes ago, chaseracer said:

😎😁

Ooh,those wipers.😍

[grogee]

7 hours ago, lesapandre said:

From 1974 onwards - British market Mitsubishis were sold under the  Colt marque until a rebranding to Mitsubishi about a decade later. May have been at the time the original name may have been considered too Japanese?

My Dad worked at Leo Burnett and was involved in the campaign to rename Mitsubishi, his team came up with 'Colt' though he's too modest to say if it was his idea. Or he can't remember. There was a lot of daytime drinking. 

You're right though, the thinking was that Mitsubishi was considered too Japanese which had negative connotations at the time (mid to late 70s).

Interesting to compare to today's Chinese car branding eg MG (SAIC) and GWM (Great Wall). Though the latter's 'Funky Cat' is a dreadful name:

https://www.am-online.com/news/car-manufacturer-news/2022/02/24/great-wall-motors-to-launch-ora-cat-compact-ev-in-uk

[Lacquer Peel]

2 hours ago, grogee said:

You're right though, the thinking was that Mitsubishi was considered too Japanese which had negative connotations at the time (mid to late 70s).

I knew of someone who might have fought in the war who would refuse to get into a Mitsubishi car. 

[barrett]

9 hours ago, Dan the van said:

Panhard,whose wonderfully quirky and very expensive cars were available in the UK from 1957 to 1967 in rhd flavour.I well remember when I was a lad a chap across the road had a white Pl17(and an impossibly attractive mistress who drove a yellow Fiat 128 estate but I digress). He upgraded to a 1967 CT24 in red which he kept for a good few years.

I had a RHD 24C. I think it was one of 50 (!) of all types 24B, 24BT, 24C, 24CT, that they managed to shift here. It was quite dreadful.

[Dan the van]

5 minutes ago, barrett said:

I had a RHD 24C. I think it was one of 50 (!) of all types 24B, 24BT, 24C, 24CT, that they managed to shift here. It was quite dreadful.

Yes,one of those cars that was better just to look at.😃.Never realised they sold so few.I've never seen another one unsurprisingly.

[grogee]

43 minutes ago, Lacquer Peel said:

I knew of someone who might have fought in the war who would refuse to get into a Mitsubishi car. 

Ironically, Dad's third and current wife won't have a Japanese car because they pulled out her granddad's fingernails in the war. 

She drives a Panda.

[warch]

51 minutes ago, Lacquer Peel said:

I knew of someone who might have fought in the war who would refuse to get into a Mitsubishi car. 

I’m sure I’ve previously mentioned this on here but my Mum used to have a rhd Opel Kadett estate (mk 2 Astra) back in the 80s. Apparently she came back to it one day to find a red faced gentleman spluttering with rage about how he hadn’t fought in the war for people to go and drive bloody German cars.

[Spottedlaurel]

10 hours ago, Dan the van said:

Panhard,whose wonderfully quirky and very expensive cars were available in the UK from 1957 to 1967 in rhd flavour.............

Another RHD example here:

Thinking of Mitsubishi, looks like they pondered selling in the UK market in the late '60s, when Toyota, Honda and Daihatsu were already established and Datsun weren't far away:

This particular car was seen in several magazines of the time and survived to 1984.

The Colt brand name was used instead of Mitsubishi until well into the 1980s, even if not obviously then at least on the DVLA entry. For example:

 

[stuboy]

30 minutes ago, grogee said:

Ironically, Dad's third and current wife won't have a Japanese car because they pulled out her granddad's fingernails in the war. 

She drives a Panda.

like not driving a Bini cause they built by zee the germans?

[horriblemercedes]

40 minutes ago, grogee said:

Ironically, Dad's third and current wife won't have a Japanese car because they pulled out her granddad's fingernails in the war. 

She drives a Panda.

Mussolini was a bit of a twat too 

[brandersnatch]

8 hours ago, horriblemercedes said:

Mussolini was a bit of a twat too 

Yeah but he made the trains run on time. Every cloud and all that. 

[warch]

8 hours ago, J R Hartley said:

I think the one of the few car producing countries that avoids any wartime activity or dodgy regime tainting is Sweden.  Might be an idea for a thread.

I dunno, Sweden had an Empire once, covering most of Scandinavia, Denmark and bits of what is now Germany.

Also Vikings…. Although they did invent the Rover

 

 

[New POD]

1 hour ago, brandersnatch said:

Yeah but he made the trains run on time. Every cloud and all that. 

How to.make the trains run on time.

Change the timetables so there are only half as many trains running, and allow a lower average speed.

 

[brandersnatch]

3 hours ago, New POD said:

How to.make the trains run on time.

Change the timetables so there are only half as many trains running, and allow a lower average speed.

 

Ok thanks. I’ll let Benito know. 

[Datsuncog]

On 10/15/2022 at 3:41 PM, Richard_FM said:

I remember my Dad wondering why Vauxhall hadn't tried selling smaller Chevrolets after the Omega went out of production, after we had an Impala as a hire car when we visited in 2008. 

The Australian made Holdens would have been a bit easier, considering they were RHD.

As well as the 'large engines' thing, for reasons that are still beyond me Australian Fords and GM products came across as incredibly badly built, with utterly gruesome levels of fit and finish.

Having spent a fair bit of time living in Queensland in the early/mid 2000s, I was amazed at just how abysmal it felt to sit in a brand new Ford Falcon BF and realise that everything in the cabin felt cheap and/or loose. The whole experience of the car - from opening the door, getting in, adjusting the seat etc - just felt like the exact opposite of quality. It was quite surreal, like some sort of weird North Korean knock-off.

Interestingly, I remember a Ford dealer in Maryborough advertising the (then) new Mk2 Focus with the strapline 'European Build Quality' - suggesting that even they realised the rest of their Aus-built cars in the showroom were a bit shit.

I hired a nearly new Holden Commodore VZ wagon when family were over visiting, and although it only had 1,800km on the clock, it felt like it had done 180,000. The squeaks and rattles were unreal, the driver's seat was lumpy, the inner door pull was visibly coming away, and I nearly lost a finger on a sharp piece of dashboard plastic while reaching into a binnacle.

I don't think it was a reflection of the Australian motor industry in general, as my Toyota Corona was also locally assembled and felt pretty good.

But I can't imagine Holden would have lasted ten minutes in the UK market against European and Japanese premium cars, as an Omega replacement.

There's probably a reason Holden doesn't exist anymore, and Ford Australia just markets imported vehicles...

[martc]

14 hours ago, J R Hartley said:

I think the one of the few car producing countries that avoids any wartime activity or dodgy regime tainting is Sweden.  Might be an idea for a thread.

You might want to look into the Swedes practice of eugenics, right into the 1970's...

The South Koreans are probably less tainted* than others as the country didn't really exist until the '50's and they've kept themselves to themselves.

*unless you're a dog.

[MiniMinorMk3]

15 hours ago, Lacquer Peel said:

I knew of someone who might have fought in the war who would refuse to get into a Mitsubishi car. 

Years ago whilst at college I worked at a Renner garage manning the petrol payment kiosk (no sodding groceries and sweets to faff about with). Suddenly they changed to a Nissan shop, and the first weekend I was there an old bloke came up and said "I'm never getting my petrol here again because of what they did in the war." Funny how some peoples minds work. 

[martc]

Anyhow, back on topic for me... have we had Ebro vans yet? Later marketed as Nissan after they took them over.

Nice sticker saying 'Nissan Building in Britain' - I guess they mean the plant at Washington, and not the Ebro which as we know is/was Spanish.

Can't say I've ever seen a L-75F, but they were a few of these vans kicking around -

until the dreaded tin worm got to them.

[MiniMinorMk3]

Ladies and Gentlemen, may I present the FSO Polonez. I've not seen one of these for years.

 

[5speedracer]

On 10/16/2022 at 9:41 AM, lesapandre said:

From 1974 onwards - British market Mitsubishis were sold under the  Colt marque until a rebranding to Mitsubishi about a decade later. May have been at the time the original name may have been considered too Japanese?

The Colt Car Company were Mitsubishi importers and continued in a 51% JV with Mitsubishi until last years withdrawal from the market.

[MiniMinorMk3]

Another Mitsu derived flop

Smart ForFour

[warch]

3 hours ago, Datsuncog said:

As well as the 'large engines' thing, for reasons that are still beyond me Australian Fords and GM products came across as incredibly badly built, with utterly gruesome levels of fit and finish.

Having spent a fair bit of time living in Queensland in the early/mid 2000s, I was amazed at just how abysmal it felt to sit in a brand new Ford Falcon BF and realise that everything in the cabin felt cheap and/or loose. The whole experience of the car - from opening the door, getting in, adjusting the seat etc - just felt like the exact opposite of quality. It was quite surreal, like some sort of weird North Korean knock-off.

Interestingly, I remember a Ford dealer in Maryborough advertising the (then) new Mk2 Focus with the strapline 'European Build Quality' - suggesting that even they realised the rest of their Aus-built cars in the showroom were a bit shit.

I hired a nearly new Holden Commodore VZ wagon when family were over visiting, and although it only had 1,800km on the clock, it felt like it had done 180,000. The squeaks and rattles were unreal, the driver's seat was lumpy, the inner door pull was visibly coming away, and I nearly lost a finger on a sharp piece of dashboard plastic while reaching into a binnacle.

I don't think it was a reflection of the Australian motor industry in general, as my Toyota Corona was also locally assembled and felt pretty good.

But I can't imagine Holden would have lasted ten minutes in the UK market against European and Japanese premium cars, as an Omega replacement.

There's probably a reason Holden doesn't exist anymore, and Ford Australia just markets imported vehicles...

I think Australia used to have its own distinct models or specifications of vehicles, possibly as a result of protectionist import regulations. You’d get models there that no other marketplace had (with the possible exception of New Zealand). Nowadays it’s all become much more homogenised (not in the milky sense) so my brother in law drives a Hyundai Tucson, my father in law a Kia Stinger and my sister in law a Toyota Landcruiser Prado, having just owned a Nissan X Trail. All cars you can buy in the UK and most comparable markets.

I don’t know if this is still true but ‘premium’ (for the want of a better word) brands like VW, Audi and BMW were regarded as very upmarket in Oz, which is not so much the case over here except for the top end models.

My experience is that it is an article of faith with many Aussies that (bloody) Brit made things are simply not tough enough for Australian  conditions, an accusation also levelled at British people. There is a degree of truth in this, in the cars that never cracked Oz section of the Australian version of Autoshoit (tm) there are undoubtedly loads of vehicles from the glory years of Leyland Australia.

[HillmanImp]

26 minutes ago, 5speedracer said:

The Colt Car Company were Mitsubishi importers and continued in a 51% JV with Mitsubishi until last years withdrawal from the market.

So a bit like Datsun UK and Nissan but without the massive tax fraud. 

[UltraWomble]

Tomos Mopeds.

The shitters Puch Maxi.
The former Yugoslavian engineering firm basically produced bikes, cars and vans using other peoples cast offs under licence. They began with Puch bikes in the 50's and even produced a Tomos 2CV6 car under licence from Citroen.

Sadly despite good sales from larger branches of Woolworth in the UK and Kays catalogues people soon relaised that build quality was a bit shit (well, actually it was variable from acceptably shit, to  incredibly shit with many not making their 3rd birthday for an MOT without suffering from terminal engine problems or electrical maladies). Quite a few found their way into the backs of sheds where even now the nostalgia market of "Oh, I had one of those when I was 16" has pushed prices past "you want your bumps feeling mate" into the "fucking lunacy" territory.

Thankfully because they were dirt cheap, they sold in their thousands in the Netherlands of all places, there is a decent spares network if you are daft enough to buy one.
Tomos dropped out of the UK in the 1990's only to re-appear in 2010 with an updated version of the classic Puch Maxi - it was still shit, worse than ever with a mild steel exhaust now rather than the chromed stainless steel exhaust of old, so not only did they crap out, they rusted as well. Still, at £1000 to £1200 on the road they were a cheap mode of transport if you could get one to last 3 years till the MOT was due.

Tomos UK went bankrupt in 2019 and stopped importing mopeds. They do however still operate and sell electric bicycles.

 

[sierraman]

My brother had a Tomos, my mum got it for him on the chucky through the catalogue, probably Argos or Grattans. 

[Datsuncog]

54 minutes ago, warch said:

My experience is that it is an article of faith with many Aussies that (bloody) Brit made things are simply not tough enough for Australian  conditions,

Yeah, I'd thought that too - which was why I was surprised at just how flimsy their top-selling Australian-built family cars were, when I actually drove them. The Commodore in particular did not feel like a rugged vehicle - there were still plenty of unpaved roads locally, and it was clearly very unhappy to be driving on them. My 20 year old Toyota felt rather more solid.

56 minutes ago, warch said:

I don’t know if this is still true but ‘premium’ (for the want of a better word) brands like VW, Audi and BMW were regarded as very upmarket in Oz, which is not so much the case over here except for the top end models.

Not even premium brands - I knew a fella who was driving a newish Mk2 Mégane hatch, and he was considered pretty flash to be driving a European make like a Renault, rather than a more common Ford or Mazda. 

My ex's father had a Citroen Dispatch as a company van, and even that was perceived as something a bit more upmarket than a locally assembled van like a Toyota Hiace.

And this was a country town 150kms north of Brisbane, so not quite hipster central.

1 hour ago, warch said:

I think Australia used to have its own distinct models or specifications of vehicles, possibly as a result of protectionist import regulations. You’d get models there that no other marketplace had (with the possible exception of New Zealand).

Yeah, rules were set up to ensure a certain amount of locally produced and assembled components had to be used in any cars offered for sale in Australia, in order to gain unfettered access to the market. Any that didn't were subject to quotas and additional import taxes, which is why companies like Toyota, Nissan and Mitsubishi ended up setting up their own local factories.

However the Button Plan (named after the then-trade Minister) came into effect in 1985, and was designed to rationalise the Australian car industry by reducing the amount of individual models offered. It was intended that manufacturers would team up to share their models under different badges, in an effort to strengthen the homegrown industry so that, eventually, import tariffs could be phased out and protectionist policies wouldn't be needed. This led to baffling badge-engineering, with Toyotas being rebadged as Holdens and Nissans being badged as Fords, amongst others.

The scheme was a flop, and fell apart by the mid-90s, with manufacturers preferring to import fully built-up vehicles manufactured in Europe or Asia rather than share their designs with each other. 

Button car plan - Wikipedia

Rather than manufacturers cracking the market, in Australia the market itself cracked them. No passenger cars or light vehicles (or even tyres) are manufactured in Australia anymore.

[UltraWomble]

25 minutes ago, sierraman said:

My brother had a Tomos, my mum got it for him on the chucky through the catalogue, probably Argos or Grattans. 

I had a 1986 Tomos Disco bought new, from Woolworths with staff discount.

It lasted JUST 3 years with typical 16YO maintenance (ie, fuck all) and being ridden / left out in all weathers.
The rear sprocket was almost bereft of teeth and the chain was very very stretched, so that even with the adjusters on the maximum setting the chain rattled against the rear arm.

Actuially for a bile that cost less than £300 - thats fucking epic

[sierraman]

10 minutes ago, UltraWomble said:

I had a 1986 Tomos Disco bought new, from Woolworths with staff discount.

It lasted JUST 3 years with typical 16YO maintenance (ie, fuck all) and being ridden / left out in all weathers.
The rear sprocket was almost bereft of teeth and the chain was very very stretched, so that even with the adjusters on the maximum setting the chain rattled against the rear arm.

I’d be surprised if my brothers lasted 3 weeks to be honest 🤣