Failed attempts to crack the UK

[grogee]

The telegraph motoring rotter, Neil something, once told me that he was halfway through setting up an import business to bring Zil limousines to the UK. This was at the height of Glasnost-mania, think U2 and Trabants. 

There was some mention that the project stalled when the issue of price was mentioned. Apparently the wheels of industry in Soviet Russia were greased by making sure the Right People were looked after. So sums of western cash left them unmoved - they wanted a penthouse flat, unlimited access to Levis and Cuban cigars. Logistically this was difficult for a westerner to arrange, and the project was shelved. Shame.

[grogee]

24 minutes ago, Missy Charm said:

Does the Fisker Karma count?

I seem to remember there being various newspaper articles suggesting it would 'definitely' come here, but another source suggests only two actually made it.  Fisker have gone bust but the car lives on in China, the rights having been bought by one of their manufacturers.

Indirectly, Fisker (or whoever owns the brand) is partly paying my wages at the moment. 

How's that for 'guaranteed future income'?

[alcyonecorporation]

Isuzu brought one model of car to the UK - that being the Piazza Turbo (JR120). There was an N/A Piazza/Impulse (JR130) but those were never available here. 

1662 were sold between 1985 and 1989/1990: that's not counting the original importer (Isuzu GB, of Charles Follett - Porsche Reading fame) going bust and leaving several hundred cars stuck at Sheerness docks. There were no 1987-model year Piazzas for the UK; International Motors took over Isuzu's UK concession selling the Piazza Handling By Lotus and the Trooper. The pre-Lotus cars were sold off by the Alan Day Group.  

Of course, Isuzu's trucks, lorries and off-roaders did (and continue to) sell well - as the market for cheaper and comfortable 90/110/Defender alternatives was still heating up, and survived the early 90s recession.  Bringing a rear-wheel drive coupe to the UK as even the established players (i.e. Capri and Manta) were dying out wasn't the greatest plan. Had it tried in '81 when the Piazza was new in Japan with a few N/A cars, it may well have done better. 

And yes, I still own the white Piazza. It's in storage waiting for the IPTOC to do some engine work. 

[chaseracer]

Based on the Chevette, right...? 

<runs, hides...>

😉

[alcyonecorporation]

1 minute ago, chaseracer said:

Based on the Chevette, right...? 

<runs, hides...>

😉

You utter slag. 

[alcyonecorporation]

It is and it isn't hhhh roflBBQ. 

It'd be fairer to say it's based on the Gemini, which was Isuzu's Chevette. It used a different range of engines and the rear axle set up was different.  That's why stuff sort of looks like it fits a Chevette, but doesn't. 
The Piazza is distantly related to the Chevette (both T-Cars, Isuzu was heavily involved in the developmental side of the programme); the Asso di Fiori concept car was a reskinned Gemini 1800 that used Isuzu's Conrero-developed twin cam engine also fitted to the PA95 117. 

The LSD's crap and doesn't directly fit Chevettes or Mantas anyway. And it's too short geared. And the automatics never had an LSD, nor did any HBL unless the owner specified it as an option. 
I'll stop derailing this thread now, as I could chat shit about Piazzas for hours on end and I've work to finish off. 

[bigfella2]

Apologies if anyone has mentioned this.

What a honey the Asia Rocsta

Sold here between between 94 and 97 using Mazda 1.8 petrol and 2.2 derv engine, built in Korea. These were sold via Kia dealers.

Another looker the Asia Retona followed, sold '98 onwards but was later badged as Kia and allegedly used the same platform as the early kia Sportage convertible. Again using copies of Mazda's engines.

 

[sierraman]

54 minutes ago, alcyonecorporation said:

It is and it isn't hhhh roflBBQ. 

It'd be fairer to say it's based on the Gemini, which was Isuzu's Chevette. It used a different range of engines and the rear axle set up was different.  That's why stuff sort of looks like it fits a Chevette, but doesn't. 
The Piazza is distantly related to the Chevette (both T-Cars, Isuzu was heavily involved in the developmental side of the programme); the Asso di Fiori concept car was a reskinned Gemini 1800 that used Isuzu's Conrero-developed twin cam engine also fitted to the PA95 117. 

The LSD's crap and doesn't directly fit Chevettes or Mantas anyway. And it's too short geared. And the automatics never had an LSD, nor did any HBL unless the owner specified it as an option. 
I'll stop derailing this thread now, as I could chat shit about Piazzas for hours on end and I've work to finish off. 

I can remember being about 7 and my parents buying me a book about cars to read on my holidays and the Piazza featuring in it, to this day I have never seen one in the flesh but they look fantastic. 

I think Isuzu tried importing a coupe, not dissimilar to a Beta during the early 80’s, it got no further than 2 being imported, one of which I believe survives. 

[eddyramrod]

6 hours ago, chaseracer said:

@eddyramrod had a Blazer similar to the one above.

 

6 hours ago, Lankytim said:

I had one a few years ago. Bought with a blown drivers side head gasket which was pretty straightforward to fix. Overall it was in really good shape and reminded me of a big Vauxhall Frontera. The almost exclusively American Blazer FB community were amazed when they saw a RHD Blazer and there was much interest in it.  The 4.3 V6 engine could only manage late teens MPG and it’s thirst, expensive road tax and a lack of brand awareness made about as saleable as a hairy white dog turd. American car enthusiasts hate them too, especially as it’s a U.K. market car so not a “real yank”. Eventually it was broken up and scrapped. 
 

If it wasn’t so terrible on fuel It might live on. There are so many similar vehicles that do the same job more efficiently. Even with LPG it would be too expensive to run. 

@chaseracer Indeed I did, well remembered!

Seen here in the AS lineup at Chumley, 2013. 

As @Lankytim says, it was ridiculously thirsty considering it was only a 4.3 litre V6; it also lacked power, especially when it was needed such as going up a hill (on a lovely paved dual-carriageway road, by the way, not green-laning!).  The conversion to RHD threw up a problem that nobody else has mentioned: because of the layout of the 4x4 system, there was a large hump in the RH front footwell.  Not an issue when the driver sits on the left, but over here it's a different matter.  And even more so when you have a pair of canal boats like mine!  I only had it a couple of months before trading it in for a 2008 Chevy Tacuma, which was with us more than five years until we decided to go Motability and @Bobthebeard bought that.

[sierraman]

40 minutes ago, bigfella2 said:

Apologies if anyone has mentioned this.

What a honey the Asia Rocsta

Sold here between between 94 and 97 using Mazda 1.8 petrol and 2.2 derv engine, built in Korea. These were sold via Kia dealers.

Another looker the Asia Retona followed, sold '98 onwards but was later badged as Kia and allegedly used the same platform as the early kia Sportage convertible. Again using copies of Mazda's engines.

 

A family we nicknamed (like you do) as the catalogue (the White Arrow man was constantly delivering to them) family who lived across from us had one of these briefly, and that was literally the only one I had ever seen. Like a lot of the shit that turned up at their house it went back in short order. 

[Mrs6C]

IIRC Chrysler/Dodge had a go at selling the Viper over in the UK, though wasn't it called something else because the name was in use already here?

Also 'Holden' (kind of) with the Monaro...

[quicksilver]

19 hours ago, inconsistant said:

AROnline: Towards the end of 1979, with the Metro’s launch still almost a year away, Islington-based dealer London Garages Limited offered the Innocenti range in limited numbers, and offered the option to convert the car to right-hand drive.

I've just seen one of those this morning. It's lived in the showroom of a former Lancia dealer for years and very rarely comes out. Not a London Garages car as it's an LHD DeTomaso Turbo exactly like that photo on a C-plate and seems to have been brought in new by the DeTomaso importer of the time. As far as I know it's a one-off.

[Missy Charm]

3 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

IIRC Chrysler/Dodge had a go at selling the Viper over in the UK, though wasn't it called something else because the name was in use already here?

Also 'Holden' (kind of) with the Monaro...

The Viper was sold here as the 'Chrysler SRT/10' for the reason that the Dodge nameplate is (was?) reserved for Renault trucks in Europe and there was already a kit car called a Viper.  Ironically, the Viper kit car was an AC Cobra replica, meaning that a fake snake stole the real snake's name!  Watch out for copyright constrictions and slithering lawyers, boo-hiss!  

[DavieW]

Hino trucks were sold for a while about 6-8 years ago but have seemingly disappeared off the roads now.

Apparently, they were dirt cheap to buy but spares were expensive and no after market bits were available.

[wuvvum]

44 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

I've just seen one of those this morning. It's lived in the showroom of a former Lancia dealer for years and very rarely comes out. Not a London Garages car as it's an LHD DeTomaso Turbo exactly like that photo on a C-plate and seems to have been brought in new by the DeTomaso importer of the time. As far as I know it's a one-off.

I wonder if that's the one that was at FOTU in 2019?

[alcyonecorporation]

1 hour ago, sierraman said:

I can remember being about 7 and my parents buying me a book about cars to read on my holidays and the Piazza featuring in it, to this day I have never seen one in the flesh but they look fantastic. 

I think Isuzu tried importing a coupe, not dissimilar to a Beta during the early 80’s, it got no further than 2 being imported, one of which I believe survives. 

GM brought two 117s over for evaluation in the late Seventies; I don't think there was ever any intention to sell them in the UK, though at least one Gemini coupe was mocked up at Luton with Vauxhall badges. 
@nigel bickleowns one of those cars, a PA96 (square light) that was originally silver but is now burgundy. There are probably 10 or 15 117s in the country now - Autolink (the Scottish MX-5 specialist) has/had a few. 
I think all of the stupidly delicate, hand made PA90 117s (with the 1600 from the Bellett GT-R) are still in Japan, because they're worth a bleeding fortune. Not 2000 GT money, or even what you'd pay now for a KPGC-10 Hakosuka or NSX, but still more than most people would want to spend on a car most people will mistake for a Fiat Dino from Wish. I dunno, perhaps a private collector has one stashed away with a Bellett Fastback (approx 300 built); there's at least one Holden Piazza in the country, for example. 

There were also a few two- and four-door Belletts knocking around in the Sixties and Seventies (a few were also raced here) but these were personal imports as far as I'm aware. 

[lesapandre]

On 10/13/2022 at 10:35 AM, DSdriver said:

Or what about the Citroen Bijou?

The Bijou story is a strange one. It's a car developed to appeal to British buyers by the British - because they thought the 2CV on which it was based was not appealing enough because it was too French . So basically a foreign car was made to look more 'desirable' to people who actually preferred the original car...210 sold.

[quicksilver]

56 minutes ago, wuvvum said:

I wonder if that's the one that was at FOTU in 2019?

It is the same one (C850 TRP). That was one of its extremely rare public appearances and it also went to the Jan 2020 Bicester Scramble but I don't think it's been out since. The same chap recently imported a second-gen Lancia Delta that was at FOTU 2022.

[J R Hartley]

22 hours ago, Split_Pin said:

Can anyone think of another car that the original manufacturers stopped making and selling in the UK but was subsequently put back into production abroad and then sold again in the UK with little success?

The Dacia Denem was one.

I'm not thinking of the Ledbury Maestro as they were small volume kits, but I am sure there are others.

Was the Hindustan Contessa ever sold here officially? A reworked Vauxhall Victor FE.

[artdjones]

10 hours ago, 5speedracer said:

Pegaso were at that time owned by a company called Enasa who also briefly owned Seddon Atkinson. They needed to modernise and entered a joint venture with DAF to develop a cab that was used on the DAF 95, Pegaso Troner and Seddon Atkinson Strato. Just as they were getting going with the new cab Enasa was bought over by Iveco who understandably wanted to use their cab and also killed off the Pegaso name as they assumed owners would just move to Iveco, they didn't.

Mind you the cab was so good that DAF are only now finishing orders for trucks using cosmetically tweaked versions of what is the same basic cab from 1987.

Pegaso made cars for a while. Whether anyone tried to sell them in Britain, I don't know.

[artdjones]

2 hours ago, alcyonecorporation said:

GM brought two 117s over for evaluation in the late Seventies; I don't think there was ever any intention to sell them in the UK, though at least one Gemini coupe was mocked up at Luton with Vauxhall badges. 
@nigel bickleowns one of those cars, a PA96 (square light) that was originally silver but is now burgundy. There are probably 10 or 15 117s in the country now - Autolink (the Scottish MX-5 specialist) has/had a few. 
I think all of the stupidly delicate, hand made PA90 117s (with the 1600 from the Bellett GT-R) are still in Japan, because they're worth a bleeding fortune. Not 2000 GT money, or even what you'd pay now for a KPGC-10 Hakosuka or NSX, but still more than most people would want to spend on a car most people will mistake for a Fiat Dino from Wish. I dunno, perhaps a private collector has one stashed away with a Bellett Fastback (approx 300 built); there's at least one Holden Piazza in the country, for example. 

There were also a few two- and four-door Belletts knocking around in the Sixties and Seventies (a few were also raced here) but these were personal imports as far as I'm aware.

Isuzu Geminis were sold in Ireland for a while, although they weren't very popular. There's a coupé for sale up in Dublin right now.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

3 hours ago, Missy Charm said:

The Viper was sold here as the 'Chrysler SRT/10' for the reason that the Dodge nameplate is (was?) reserved for Renault trucks in Europe and there was already a kit car called a Viper.  Ironically, the Viper kit car was an AC Cobra replica, meaning that a fake snake stole the real snake's name!  Watch out for copyright constrictions and slithering lawyers, boo-hiss!  

They must have got round the problem for the Dodge Caliber, Avenger, Journey and Nitro. Although I’d rather have one of Dunstable’s finestDodge 50s than any of them.

[Datsuncog]

55 minutes ago, artdjones said:

Isuzu Geminis were sold in Ireland for a while, although they weren't very popular. There's a coupé for sale up in Dublin right now.

Wasn't there some sort of offer running in Ireland in the late 80s that if you bought an Isuzu commercial vehicle, you got a free Gemini? For some reason, that sticks in my mind.

But yeah. You wouldn't have to pull that kind of stunt to shift a popular car...

[Missy Charm]

13 minutes ago, NorfolkNWeigh said:

They must have got round the problem for the Dodge Caliber, Avenger, Journey and Nitro. Although I’d rather have one of Dunstable’s finestDodge 50s than any of them.

They must have done.  The British specification* Viper, sorry SRT/10, somewhat pre-dated the new Dodges you have mentioned.  

*I think the UK spec changes were extremely minimal, possibly just amber indicators and appropriately dipping headlights.  They were LHD for a start.

[Rust Collector]

A good friend of mine has a Viper that was imported new and registered by Prodrive, I recall him saying they had something to do with importing them and his car was brought over as part of the type approval/homologation process. It’s a 2003 model. If I recall correctly there was some strange stuff going on with the ‘stock’ exhaust it had, which had been modified to reduce the noise levels and I think it may have had an additional or modified catalyst. He’s a drinking buddy so the conversations are always a little hazy in recollection…

[junkyarddog]

39 minutes ago, artdjones said:

Isuzu Geminis were sold in Ireland for a while, although they weren't very popular. There's a coupé for sale up in Dublin right now.

There was the Isuzu Aska too,kinda looked  like a reworked Opel Rekord.

[alcyonecorporation]

1 hour ago, junkyarddog said:

There was the Isuzu Aska too,kinda looked  like a reworked Opel Rekord.

I dunno what's madder about that Gemini pic, that there's one still in RoI, or that the plastic bumper appears to be rusty, or that it's sat on Whey King wheels. 

The Aska was a J-car (so Cavalier Mk2). 
You could get one with the same engine as the Piazza Turbo (4CZ1-T) but in front wheel drive for some top torque steering bollocks. 

[Lacquer Peel]

9 hours ago, Missy Charm said:

They must have done.  The British specification* Viper, sorry SRT/10, somewhat pre-dated the new Dodges you have mentioned.  

*I think the UK spec changes were extremely minimal, possibly just amber indicators and appropriately dipping headlights.  They were LHD for a start.

Was it marketed as a Chrysler rather than a Dodge?

[artdjones]

9 hours ago, Datsuncog said:

Wasn't there some sort of offer running in Ireland in the late 80s that if you bought an Isuzu commercial vehicle, you got a free Gemini? For some reason, that sticks in my mind.

But yeah. You wouldn't have to pull that kind of stunt to shift a popular car...

That fits, as it's early to mid 90s that you'd see them around down here.

[skoda_fan]

12 hours ago, lesapandre said:

 So basically a foreign car was made to look more 'desirable' to people who actually preferred the original car...210 sold.

And yet there was a period in the 70s when nearly every issue of Exchange and Mart would have two or three listed for sale. I remember this because at the time as a student I was looking for a cheap 2CV (yes there were plenty of such things back then) and didn't know what a Bijou was. Maybe the 210 sold had reached the end of their economical lives and owners were just offloading them. Btw I never bought a 2CV but bought a Beetle instead.