The curious case of the JOGLE 9:36 bloke

[Talbot]

Fake plates.

[beyondwrx98]

5 hours ago, Talbot said:

Fake plates.

Cant have been. ITV News said, and I quote, 'The prosecution alleged that Mr Davies must have been speeding but the court heard that none of the 105 speed cameras along the route had been triggered.'  

They obviously checked them for that to be said, all 105 of them (Jesus the work that went into this)

A fake plate doesn't stop them going off, Plus that's a really easy charge to prove if the cam does go off and its a fake plate. The police must have had a number plate if they tracked it with ANPR hits. But no speed camera being triggered is where I come stuck in working out how it was done? No way you can slowdown for all those cameras, average or not and still maintain that sort of average.  You would have to be doing 170+mph anywhere you can which would be many places.

 

 

[NorfolkNWeigh]

40 minutes ago, beyondwrx98 said:

Cant have been. ITV News said, and I quote, 'The prosecution alleged that Mr Davies must have been speeding but the court heard that none of the 105 speed cameras along the route had been triggered.'  

They obviously checked them for that to be said, all 105 of them (Jesus the work that went into this)

A fake plate doesn't stop them going off, Plus that's a really easy charge to prove if the cam does go off and its a fake plate. The police must have had a number plate if they tracked it with ANPR hits. But no speed camera being triggered is where I come stuck in working out how it was done? No way you can slowdown for all those cameras, average or not and still maintain that sort of average.  You would have to be doing 170+mph anywhere you can which would be many places.

 

 

If they tracked him with ANPR cameras surely they could be used as average speed evidence.

In my imagination I once did a journey of just under 200 miles at an average of 90 mph in a car a bit faster than an S5 and to cancel out the 40 miles that weren’t on dual carriageways or motorways , speeds in excess of that which would get a prison sentence, had to be  maintained.  I was fucked afterwards too , concentrating that hard for 2 hours was physically exhausting. 
Although not as much as if I’d been doing 115 mph in a Rexton.

[beyondwrx98]

The don't disclose the location of ANPR locations for 'National security' reasons. But even if they do at Crown Court there not designed for capturing speeding offences. Not calibrated etc so even if they could disclose the location in court I doubt it would be admissible. What if the times on the cameras were wrong etc etc. There not reliable enough to work out a time over distance calculation.

The concentration to drive that fast for the long and not get caught or worst is unreal. I cant workout from the piston heads post if he drove the whole way or only to the refuel location. it implies he drove the whole 9:36 though.

[GrumpiusMaximus]

Laser jammers will stop the speed cameras.  They just overwhelm the camera's sensor.  They detect the signal from the camera, decode it and send back an identical reply so the camera gets confused and doesn't measure a speed:

https://radartest.com/how_laser_jammers_work.asp

Not illegal in itself but can be classified as perverting the course of justice especially if a Police officer is directly operating the detector, which is a serious offence obviously.

[Datsuncog]

The original article mentions the number plates issue.

Quote

The prosecution alleges that Davies was using fake registration plates he bought from an Irish company a month before his journey.

Mr Murray said: “The benefit of using fake plates is obvious to someone seeking to commit criminal offences on the road – it avoids detection. Normally, the registration plate is linked to a car and then the registered keeper person. If it is observed by a camera doing something it shouldn’t be, the letters are sent to the person who is registered as owning the vehicle. With fake plates, that can’t happen. The police would be chasing information which simply doesn’t exist.”

The fake plates are said to be linked to someone who also owns an Audi A5 but that the vehicle has never left Ireland, and he has no knowledge of the defendant. Mr Murray claimed the plates had been cloned.

John O'Groats to Land's End 'record' driver had fake plates and police scanner to avoid detection, court told - Cornwall Live

It seems that the Audi was tracked using ANPR cameras, but the Irish registration number worn by the car travelling down from Scotland through to Cornwall was cloned from a similar Audi A5 which, apparently provably, was in Ireland at the time that the images in GB were recorded and had no link to Davies.

I'd imagine the Irish car had been advertised on donedeal.ie at some stage, and a photo was simply trawled up during an online image search before identical 'show plates' were ordered.

So, it seems that fake plates played a significant role in the stunt, likely in conjunction with the jammer devices mentioned to scramble speed camera signals and prevent them recording the true speed of the Audi.

The prosecution could prove that he'd bought all these items using his own name, including police-style blue lights; but owning them is not an offence, only using them on a public road.

Which turned out to be an impossible charge to prove, a year or so later.

Had he been pulled over and stopped by a police patrol during the attempt - and the radar jammers, false plates, blue lights noticed, not to mention the unsecured auxiliary fuel tank in the boot - then it would have been quite a different story...

[martc]

1 hour ago, Datsuncog said:

Had he been pulled over and stopped by a police patrol during the attempt - and the radar jammers, false plates, blue lights noticed, not to mention the unsecured auxiliary fuel tank in the boot - then it would have been quite a different story...

But road safety is now looked after by roadside cameras which are infallible. Oh, hang on a sec....

[beyondwrx98]

On 11/10/2022 at 7:18 AM, GrumpiusMaximus said:

Laser jammers will stop the speed cameras.  They just overwhelm the camera's sensor.  They detect the signal from the camera, decode it and send back an identical reply so the camera gets confused and doesn't measure a speed:

https://radartest.com/how_laser_jammers_work.asp

Not illegal in itself but can be classified as perverting the course of justice especially if a Police officer is directly operating the detector, which is a serious offence obviously.

That's only true with mobile speed camera vans and handheld devices that use laser. HADEC, Gatso  and Average speed cameras on the motorway don't use laser. They use a low frequency radar. A laser jammer cant help you with fixed cameras in this country. Laser Operators are trained to log error codes from their equipment and then hey presto you have a knock at the door, where they find the jammer and you literally go to prison for perverting the course of justice. (Google 'perverting the course of justice + laser') If the cameras were checked, as its implied, they would show any interference with that cam, as it would be logged, (these motorway cams are all linked up. there unbelievable pieces of kit) which in itself would be stronger evidence than a recorded speed to prove perverting the course of justice. Imagine evidence of interference of 105 cams all along the route at the right times on the night in question. Would be hard defend against that. Why bother stopping the cams going off if your running fake plates? 

 

On 11/10/2022 at 12:29 PM, martc said:

But road safety is now looked after by roadside cameras which are infallible. Oh, hang on a sec....

The irony that a couple more traffic officers on patrol and he wouldn't have got south of Aberdeen...

[Dave_Q]

On 08/11/2022 at 22:16, beyondwrx98 said:

Glad I'm not the only one who was looking this up. Always been of fan of the Cannonball and the runs across the states. For what its worth he popped up on Instagram with Arne Toman who holds the US Record from NY - LA. He obviously keeps the sort of company that do this sort of stuff.

From my research looks as if they couldn't put him behind the wheel. The driver was in 'Doubt' not the time as the ANPR and GPS data all lined up to show 9:36. None of the speed cams went off so he must have messed with them somehow? (Any ideas?) . Bet the police were sick to the stomach with the verdict though.

Yes I agree that there is sufficient evidence that the car did the journey in the time stated but he can't be put behind the wheel beyond reasonable doubt

On 09/11/2022 at 14:34, juular said:

I wonder how he dealt with the average speed cameras on the A9. I suppose even sticking to 60, then as fast as possible at every dual section might allow you to keep up that 60 average.  Unless there was some technical trickery at play to fool the cameras somehow?

The article @Datsuncog linked basically stated that his car on fake Irish plates was seen on ANPR from Cheshire down to Cornwall, I think that either the A9 cameras use a technology that is jammable, or they don't keep data for the year+ that it took for the court case to come around. I think the average required on the rest of the route gets too high if you're sticking to the limit till the central belt.

[somewhatfoolish]

On 11/9/2022 at 12:40 PM, Jim Bell said:

You can't argue with science. 

I'd offer to prove it beyond all doubt by fitting a 300 litre extra veg oil tank in the back of the Rexton and making the run in person, documented by a film crew and satalite triangulation but I can't because I've got a sore tummy. 

Catheterising yourself might be needed, or at least an adult nappy, unless you're an experienced lorryist and can pee in a bottle at 56 emm pee aitch.

[Dan_ZTT]

On 10/10/2022 at 1:54 PM, Dave_Q said:

Yeah he's deffo a bellend. 

As it was a crown court trial there will have been a jury and if it came to a majority verdict they would have needed 10 out of 12 jurors to agree he did it beyond reasonable doubt. 

So despite the fact the dafty left quite a lot of evidence, none of it incontrovertibly puts him in the drivers seat so I guess it's not beyond reasonable doubt?

The guys story was that he had an additional 80l fuel tank and stopped once to take on ≈150l of fuel so therefore about 4 x "normal" full tanks.

Just seen this. He's popped up before on a C2C/Cannonball facebook group I'm in, and talked about it a bit. I'm pretty sure he did do it but like you say the legal 'proof' is a very high threshold and I'm sure he knew that unless he was actually caught en route by police he was very unlikely to be successfully prosecuted afterwards.

I agree it does make him a bellend. It's one thing doing these silly speed runs in the wide open bits of the USA with dead straight flat roads and 50 miles between tiny towns, I sort of understand the appeal of it over there, but trying to do it in the UK just doesn't make sense, the roads are totally different, it's way too dangerous for yourself and for the general public, all legalities aside. Doing it on your own makes it even more stupid, nobody can really keep the concentration up to the level it needs to be in that long a chunk. The guys that have set Cannonball records in the US in recent years always do it in teams of 2 or 3 and swap drivers at the fuel stops.

 

[Dave_Q]

Entirely possible that there were more drivers involved and he was just the one fame hungry/stupid enough to be the media face of it. 

I agree that doing a high speed for a short stretch isn't inherently unsafe but doing so for 10 hours straight without a stop or driver swap, if that is really what happened, is reckless.

[beyondwrx98]

On 11/23/2022 at 5:00 PM, Dan_ZTT said:

Just seen this. He's popped up before on a C2C/Cannonball facebook group I'm in, and talked about it a bit. I'm pretty sure he did do it but like you say the legal 'proof' is a very high threshold and I'm sure he knew that unless he was actually caught en route by police he was very unlikely to be successfully prosecuted afterwards.

I agree it does make him a bellend. It's one thing doing these silly speed runs in the wide open bits of the USA with dead straight flat roads and 50 miles between tiny towns, I sort of understand the appeal of it over there, but trying to do it in the UK just doesn't make sense, the roads are totally different, it's way too dangerous for yourself and for the general public, all legalities aside. Doing it on your own makes it even more stupid, nobody can really keep the concentration up to the level it needs to be in that long a chunk. The guys that have set Cannonball records in the US in recent years always do it in teams of 2 or 3 and swap drivers at the fuel stops.

 

I guess you haven't seen the solo records they do then. Driving solo for 3000 miles non stop for 30 or more so hours at triple digit speeds. One of the record runs hit 195mph on the highway. its crazy.

From what I gathered I think there was a driver swap in the UK case so it would be 5 hours or less behind the wheel. 

The cultures are very different over there to here, however you can't condemn one with out the other.  Having driven a lot in the US, mostly East Coast so not the open plains desert in the west, there's still a lot of traffic on the roads. Compare that to the M5 or M6 at 3am pretty much empty roads. Just look at the Collison rates of the US.

Doing a 100mph here and there on the M6 in the dead of night cant be more dangerous than doing a 100mph in the middle of the day in the US having been driving for 20+ hours straight.  Heck there's some who have done it non stop, as in had enough fuel on board to do it in one go. That's a bomb going down the road. 

There's no way you can defend this sort endeavour, its crazy. But just like bank heist there is something intriguing about it.

For what its worth its believed the police got wind of it because it was reported to them by someone on the Piston heads forum.

I hold no judgement on the lad. He was only 26 when he 'did' it. No one was hurt, apart from some detectives egos. He defended himself (Mind boggles) and was acquitted. 

Id like to have a pint with him and see how he is in person. It was clearly passion of his and maybe he did achieve his goal and has no regrets. Maybe he thinks now its stupid and agrees.

@Dan_ZTTwhat's the Facebook group he's in? and what did he say exactly? 

 

[Dan_ZTT]

1 hour ago, beyondwrx98 said:

I guess you haven't seen the solo records they do then. Driving solo for 3000 miles non stop for 30 or more so hours at triple digit speeds. One of the record runs hit 195mph on the highway. its crazy.

From what I gathered I think there was a driver swap in the UK case so it would be 5 hours or less behind the wheel. 

The cultures are very different over there to here, however you can't condemn one with out the other.  Having driven a lot in the US, mostly East Coast so not the open plains desert in the west, there's still a lot of traffic on the roads. Compare that to the M5 or M6 at 3am pretty much empty roads. Just look at the Collison rates of the US.

Doing a 100mph here and there on the M6 in the dead of night cant be more dangerous than doing a 100mph in the middle of the day in the US having been driving for 20+ hours straight.  Heck there's some who have done it non stop, as in had enough fuel on board to do it in one go. That's a bomb going down the road. 

There's no way you can defend this sort endeavour, its crazy. But just like bank heist there is something intriguing about it.

For what its worth its believed the police got wind of it because it was reported to them by someone on the Piston heads forum.

I hold no judgement on the lad. He was only 26 when he 'did' it. No one was hurt, apart from some detectives egos. He defended himself (Mind boggles) and was acquitted. 

Id like to have a pint with him and see how he is in person. It was clearly passion of his and maybe he did achieve his goal and has no regrets. Maybe he thinks now its stupid and agrees.

@Dan_ZTTwhat's the Facebook group he's in? and what did he say exactly? 

 

The group is just called C2C Express, I think. It's a year ago or more I remember seeing him post about it. If there was indeed a driver swap that does make it less bad, although still unwise.

There was a big fuss about a US solo run record from a guy called Fred Ashmore within the last year or two, cannonball in a rented mustang with an extra fuel tank shoved in, something mad like 25 hours, however that's recently been discredited by most of that community for lack of evidence, the guy is now considered something of an exaggerator unfortunately. I don't think any person has the capacity to do that run solo at speed without extreme levels of luck and amphetamines...

The legit US stuff is still nuts but if anyone's curious then Ed Bolian's vinwiki youtube channel is the place to start, can be a bit of a rabbit hole...

[beyondwrx98]

On 11/27/2022 at 11:28 PM, Dan_ZTT said:

There was a big fuss about a US solo run record from a guy called Fred Ashmore within the last year or two, cannonball in a rented mustang with an extra fuel tank shoved in, something mad like 25 hours, however that's recently been discredited by most of that community for lack of evidence, the guy is now considered something of an exaggerator unfortunately.

I hadnt heard of the the Fred Ashmore fakery, but went down that 'rabbit hole' anyway and would you belive it, it brings you back to this topic...

I shared the photos Fred and Arthur Ashmore sent me with Tommy Davies and Rob Pickup, two characters of some renown within Cannonball circles. Using reams of data, the pair had successfully defended Davies from charges leveled against him by the government of the U.K. regarding a spirited drive he and another friend had made from the northern tip of Scotland to the southernmost point in England in an alleged record attempt in 2017. They've also both participated in the C2C, and are familiar with the many variables peculiar to a nonstop high-speed drive across the U.S.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a38916492/solo-cannonball-record-may-have-been-faked/

But yeah I think we can all agree that doing anything like 3000miles on yoiur own non stop against the clock is just plain idiotic.