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Fall in used car sales


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The issue simply is that good garages are far and between in this country. They absolutely do exist, because their owners are dedicated to a cause and therefore booked out for months (certain people specializing in particular models for the sake of keeping them on the road). The problem is that this mentality is rare here. And literally everything comes down to this: People's mentality, or that of the majority of people in a specific field.

I can understand that garages prefer to do the easy jobs that minimize liability on their side. But I can guarantee you that even in my tiny hometown of 6000 residents I'd find 3 garages that would be happy to do almost any job, at the highest standard, and would thoroughly inform me if something is beyond their abilities. It would cost me a chunk of money but I could depend on them carrying out the work exactly as its intended to be, because that is the quality bar they interpret as normal.

Good luck trying to find the same number of garages with consistent performance in the entirety of North East England. Just my 2 cents of outside perspective.

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5 hours ago, cort16 said:

I just wouldn’t buy it because it looks fucking horrendous and has  chintzy buttons  made of crystals .It just needs some flowery drapes.

I’ve seen a few of them now and they look worse in real life . Remember the  good old days when the Ford Scorpio was considered ugly ?

Yes, these things are hideously ugly and I can’t believe how BMW have lost the plot in their designs, very nice looking cars up until not that long ago but now…

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I would not like to be a tech. As stated earlier cars are not designed to be fixed - more so after years of corrosion etc. Couple this with uncaring owners with no cash and you can see where this is going.

Skill sets come into it as well - the local BMW specialists didn't want to know about the valve stem seals on my N62 engine - PMP in Nuneaton did the job for a fixed price and the car was done when they said it would be. When I was there they had various Range Rovers and turbo BMW 's in - they appeared to be doing the kind of work the others shied away from. I also noticed the lads were Eastern European - are their techs better trained? I do not know.

Pre covid I would have had a punt on quite a few cars I have seen but the rise in prices mean that currently there is no such thing as a good buy.

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Bren said:

I would not like to be a tech. As stated earlier cars are not designed to be fixed - more so after years of corrosion etc. Couple this with uncaring owners with no cash and you can see where this is going.

Skill sets come into it as well - the local BMW specialists didn't want to know about the valve stem seals on my N62 engine - PMP in Nuneaton did the job for a fixed price and the car was done when they said it would be. When I was there they had various Range Rovers and turbo BMW 's in - they appeared to be doing the kind of work the others shied away from. I also noticed the lads were Eastern European - are their techs better trained? I do not know.

Pre covid I would have had a punt on quite a few cars I have seen but the rise in prices mean that currently there is no such thing as a good buy.

 

 

 

They aren't better trained, they just think a job is a job, probably done it since they were 17 and actually make an effort. A "BMW specialist" not willing to do valve stem seals (something every V8 BMW from the bangle era will need) is literally a complacent c*nt that can afford to be picky as there's not enough competent alternatives around.

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24 minutes ago, MJK 24 said:

Fuck me this Focus is 12 years old.  Look at the price of the the thing!!

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Low mileage (40k) and last of the 5pot turbos in top spec. A lot more character than the later 2l ecoboost engines. Rare thing, so probably pricing thinking someone wanting that particular model engine.

Doesn't mean it will sell at that price.

Totalcarcheck also state in May 2022 they/someone wanted £13230 for it. Presumably didn't sell at that as it's MOT expired in Jun 2022!

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I've got a mate who took over a garage who used to sell MG's. They still get the new electric EV's coming in for service and there's literally nothing to do.

Check the coolant, check the windscreen washer fluid, make sure the wheels aren't falling off and the brakes work basically nothing.

The need to meet emissions has made modern combustion engines in particular diesel ones unsustainably complex.

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41 minutes ago, cort16 said:

I've got a mate who took over a garage who used to sell MG's. They still get the new electric EV's coming in for service and there's literally nothing to do.

Check the coolant, check the windscreen washer fluid, make sure the wheels aren't falling off and the brakes work basically nothing.

The need to meet emissions has made modern combustion engines in particular diesel ones unsustainably complex.

It’s true that EVs have a much easier servicing schedule but in 10 years time they’ll still suffer from the same faults as petrol cars - the thing won’t go because the brake interlock switch is shorted out by a faulty window switch and blows a fuse in the instrument cluster.

We’ll need garages to do that mentally complicated work even more, because changing brake pads will only be every 10 years so won’t be in the garage’s business model.

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My local garage pointed out to me that a good 75% of their work was suspension and brake related. While pads may wear down, suspension work probably will end up going up. Especially given the extra weight of EV and their associated wear on roads, making them more potted. I think I agree. They won't miss the part of work from dirt and grime from fluid and filter changes either. 

They do occasionally swap engines out but it tends to be more commercial or taxi vehicles that they do that on. There was a rough running Corsa on the ramp that they were waiting on a manifold gasket to come in. I saw it in the morning for an MOT, so presumably it caused a fail and they diagnosed that as the fault. Admittedly probably rare to find a garage like them, especially as a few months ago I went in to find them putting 6hrs of fabricating and welding into a 2004 Ford Ka... 

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Things like suspension issues, window regulators etc won't change in EV's but that stuff isn't as technically difficult as having the knowledge to diagnose then fix a modern car.  With timing chains and head gasket changes you properly need to know your stuff and every bastard one of them is different. 

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2 hours ago, cort16 said:

I've got a mate who took over a garage who used to sell MG's. They still get the new electric EV's coming in for service and there's literally nothing to do.

Check the coolant, check the windscreen washer fluid, make sure the wheels aren't falling off and the brakes work basically nothing.

The need to meet emissions has made modern combustion engines in particular diesel ones unsustainably complex.

When a main dealers ends up selling MG it’s like the last stop before selling something completely obscure like Ssanyong. 

I think a lot of independent garages can see the writing on the wall, to keep at that game it needs constant investment in the diagnostics, equipment etc. All these village garage types won’t last long, there’s a place near us it’s almost like they’ve had their head in the sand for the last 10-15 years. Plus they’re competing with people winging it mending cars as a sideline on Facebook, no proper tools, no premises, no idea but they’ll swap your pads for £15. Fine but if they are just winging it and they cause damage or an accident then they’re liable. People just look at the bottom line and end up going to someone doing side jobs. 

Don't get me wrong there’s some very knowledgeable outfits out there, on the other hand there is a lot that are completely fucking clueless, they know all about Morris Itals or Volvo 240’s but that’s what their sense of self development ended. You couldn’t be an electrician and have no idea about Part P or whatever. 

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33 minutes ago, sierraman said:

When a main dealers ends up selling MG it’s like the last stop before selling something completely obscure like Ssanyong. 

I think a lot of independent garages can see the writing on the wall, to keep at that game it needs constant investment in the diagnostics, equipment etc. All these village garage types won’t last long, there’s a place near us it’s almost like they’ve had their head in the sand for the last 10-15 years. Plus they’re competing with people winging it mending cars as a sideline on Facebook, no proper tools, no premises, no idea but they’ll swap your pads for £15. Fine but if they are just winging it and they cause damage or an accident then they’re liable. People just look at the bottom line and end up going to someone doing side jobs. 

Don't get me wrong there’s some very knowledgeable outfits out there, on the other hand there is a lot that are completely fucking clueless, they know all about Morris Itals or Volvo 240’s but that’s what their sense of self development ended. You couldn’t be an electrician and have no idea about Part P or whatever. 

If you can't keep up as a mainstream garage you need to become more competitive, by providing higher quality work(going upmarket) or lowering prices which probably isn't an alternative. I cannot see the possibility that a good garage doing good work is running out of business if they are capable enough to build up a reputation of excellence. That's exactly the reason why some garages are booked out for months and others are just garbage and hopefully gone for good soon.

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1 hour ago, sierraman said:

When a main dealers ends up selling MG it’s like the last stop before selling something completely obscure like Ssanyong. 

 

I think that was the case but not anymore. A lot of big groups have MG now and I hear anyone who sells them are very happy doing so in regards to customer demand and margins.

Not sure if they're going to all the feel the same in 3 years if their battery packs start dropping out due to rust.

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3 hours ago, sierraman said:

think a lot of independent garages can see the writing on the wall, to keep at that game it needs constant investment in the diagnostics, equipment etc. All these village garage types won’t last long, there’s a place near us it’s almost like they’ve had their head in the sand for the last 10-15 years

Do they need to invest in many expensive diag tools for the average small garage though? I hear this barked about a lot but I know my local garage gets on just fine for vast majority of vehicles they see with their Snapon scanner. While not bargain basic price, you can get Autel/Foxwell/etc for quarter the price that can do the same. Read/clear codes and live data is the majority of what a garage needs. If an ECU requires replacement and/or coding they won't get involved and instead they'll refer you to a specialist or dealer.

While there is always some vehicles that need more advanced diagnosis, the vast majority they will see are going to be straight forward repairs. Even on modern more complex stuff. Wonky sensors needing replacement, failed coil packs that give misfire codes, screaming turbos that have failed and no charge alternators that need replacing.

If it's more complex than that, they'll advise to go elsewhere. So if the vehicle is worth money it'll go off to somewhere specialised or part/ex on something else. If not worth money then punted on for spares/repairs or scrapped.

Given most garages are booked up weeks in advance, they must have plenty of business.

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On 8/18/2022 at 10:04 AM, CreepingJesus said:

I recall Iveco falling into that trap years ago, and they'd used ridiculous fleet leases to to plump up their market position, which came back to bite them hard at the end of the term. Nearly sunk the company according to some stories.

How does the fleet market play into this situation? After all, they're a big part of what filters down to the lower end of the market after a few years. A few already difficult years of course.

Ignoring my views on Ivecos, within about 10 miles of here a good few years ago (circa 2000-2001, iirc) there was two yards absolutely ram full of I think 3 or 4 year old Iveco tractor units. They were all ex-lease, the yard owner of one of the places said they were mostly going to export to Spain as the dealers didn't want to flood the market with them. They were ridiculously cheap to their new foreign buyers (seem to recall he said £1,800-£2,500) or five grand or something if you wanted to buy one in the UK.  Got the distinct impression they'd royally fucked themselves over. 

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3 hours ago, chadders said:

The two that I use have at least a 4 week waiting list and far longer for major work.

MX-5 specialist doing my bearings - four week wait. But confident and way less than the randoms quoted while telling me about the bearings on a totally different design...

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