garethj Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 Because badging a fucking Montego as a Rover wasn’t fooling anyone. I was watching a YouTube episode about the Triumph Dolomite and whilst it suffered with the usual BL things of underdevelopment, carrying on too long against the competition etc, would the Triumph badge have been better for the 1990s and beyond? Rover had a strong brand image, but perhaps it wasn’t an especially good one. Promoting a brand which was (back in the ‘50s) seen as solid is ok when people aspired to be a bank manager. By the ‘80s, and looking at brands that really leapt forward, maybe a sports saloon would have been better than a steady one? warren t claim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilA Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 It worked in the USA but that's only because of the success of Triumph motorcycles and the popularity of the TR3. You figure, they didn't even try the Rover badge here, instead using the Sterling name to sell a facelift Honda... How very BL warren t claim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_al_granvia Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 above all, its a rover the sd1 looked nice but build was shite, the shag with honda produced shite hondas, they developed nothing, new shells with shit mechanicals, dont mention build quality as bummies drank tea... the cars could have been good, probably should have been but were shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sierraman Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 I don’t think so, the rot had set in that bad it was just damage limitation from the mid seventies onwards, there were a few opportunities to try and save it but again they fell into the same habits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobloseven Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 A couple of weeks ago I bought a very tatty BMW 325CI,E46.Drove it briefly before passing it on to my son. Somehow it felt special and kind of better than, say a Vauxhall or Ford or.... of the same era. Now that car can trace its lineage, unbroken, back to the 02 range, and forward to the current 3 series. Contemporary to the 02 range was the Triumph Dolomite, RWD, a car with performance and sporting aspirations and a touch of luxury. Driving the E46 with its straight six and RWD, I couldn't help thinking this should be British. Instead the Dolomite was dead and unreplaced by the early eighties. BMW was still a small player in the UK,and folk bought "sporting" versions of Cortinas, Sierras, Cavaliers etc. Even Montegos. A type of car that has gone the way of the dinosaurs in recent years. Just made me a bit sad. I'm old enough to remember the excitement when the Dolomite Sprint was launched in 1973,and can't help thinking what might have been. garethj 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethj Posted August 12, 2022 Author Share Posted August 12, 2022 1 hour ago, sierraman said: I don’t think so, the rot had set in that bad it was just damage limitation from the mid seventies onwards, there were a few opportunities to try and save it but again they fell into the same habits. Wasn’t a similar kind of issue happening at other British car companies though? Vauxhall were in a similar situation in the early ‘70s but came out the other side because they made cars that people wanted to buy instead of the competition. I just wonder if Austin Rover had more of a Triumph outlook instead of a Rover one, they might have done better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timewaster Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 I think the R8 Rover 214 was a great car and worthy of the badge. Middle England lapped it up. The 25 threw all that away. warren t claim and Sheefag 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethj Posted August 12, 2022 Author Share Posted August 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Timewaster said: I think the R8 Rover 214 was a great car and worthy of the badge. Middle England lapped it up. Probably a good reason it was chosen as Hyacinth Bucket’s car, but whether it was good or not isn’t the issue… would something that was more like a new Dolomite Sprint have sold across Europe rather than to middle class English men aged 54-56 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddyramrod Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 49 minutes ago, garethj said: Probably a good reason it was chosen as Hyacinth Bucket’s car, Erm, it wasn't. Richard's car (we never saw Hyacinth drive) was a Rover SD3, the previous model. CreepingJesus, Muniphobia and horriblemercedes 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheffcortinacentre Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 It would have made all the difference! (Sarcastic moi!). garethj and eddyramrod 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethj Posted August 12, 2022 Author Share Posted August 12, 2022 1 hour ago, eddyramrod said: Erm, it wasn't. Richard's car (we never saw Hyacinth drive) was a Rover SD3, the previous model. I agree with my learned colleague above that the exact model wouldn’t have made a difference. Richard may have been the driver, but I can’t imagine he had much say in the matter 😀 CreepingJesus and eddyramrod 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warren t claim Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 Didn't badging Maestros as Rovers somewhat debase the brand? Despite what armchair historians say about the Montego it was no worse that the Sierra or Mk2 Cavalier and a hell of a lot better than a Talbot Solara or Renner 18 but badging it as a Rover might have been a step too far. The Old Bloke Next Door 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddyramrod Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 7 minutes ago, garethj said: I agree with my learned colleague above that the exact model wouldn’t have made a difference. Richard may have been the driver, but I can’t imagine he had much say in the matter 😀 Tbf, I agree; Hyacinth most likely did choose the car, and even the colour, but give a pedant an even break, ok? Richard still drove. Also, none of their lives were real. garethj and paulplom 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warren t claim Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 And another thing to consider, should ARG have badged their hot versions as MGs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timewaster Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 7 minutes ago, warren t claim said: Didn't badging Maestros as Rovers somewhat debase the brand? I don't think any Minis, Maestros or Montegos ever had a Rover badge. The V5 may say rover, but the cars were just Mini, Maestro or Montego MG was a used on Ado16's in the 60s and 70s. Surprised they didn't MG the mini when they decided not to pay John Cooper sixpence per car or however much. We got the 1275GT instead. seacow, catsinthewelder, timolloyd and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warren t claim Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, Timewaster said: I don't think any Minis, Maestros or Montegos ever had a Rover badge. The V5 may say rover, but the cars were just Mini, Maestro or Montego My L reg Montego diesel said Rover on the log book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warren t claim Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 It's worth noting that instead of making the hot SD3 an MG they used old Triumph names like Vitesse and Sprint. eddyramrod, CreepingJesus and catsinthewelder 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethj Posted August 12, 2022 Author Share Posted August 12, 2022 28 minutes ago, Timewaster said: I don't think any Minis, Maestros or Montegos ever had a Rover badge. The V5 may say rover, but the cars were just Mini, Maestro or Montego. They definitely did on whichever motor show I attended as a spotty teenager. Ugh😳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethj Posted August 12, 2022 Author Share Posted August 12, 2022 31 minutes ago, warren t claim said: And another thing to consider, should ARG have badged their hot versions as MGs? It’s another good example of them not looking beyond their home market. Perhaps in Britain the MG badge was still ok but in Germany it was that dreadful old thing that was totally outclassed by the Opel Kadett coupe or the VW Scirocco warren t claim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMC Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 I can see parallels with triumph and bmw and the product line ups in the early 70s. Both brands had some common core values. With hindsight elements of those values are what bmw capitalises on today. So on those terms yes, as a brand the commonality back then with bmw would seem to translate into a more viable band identity today. A dolomite sprint is a sort of ancestor to the bmw m3, which has always been a halo car for bmw. warren t claim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warren t claim Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 8 minutes ago, garethj said: It’s another good example of them not looking beyond their home market. Perhaps in Britain the MG badge was still ok but in Germany it was that dreadful old thing that was totally outclassed by the Opel Kadett coupe or the VW Scirocco Exactly! The only country where the MG badge held any kudos was North America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warren t claim Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 1 minute ago, HMC said: I can see parallels with triumph and bmw and the product line ups in the early 70s. Both brands had some common core values. With hindsight elements of those values are what bmw capitalises on today. So on those terms yes, as a brand the commonality back then with bmw would seem to translate into a more viable band identity today. A dolomite sprint is a sort of ancestor to the bmw m3, which has always been a halo car for bmw. See also mid sized executive car available with either a 2000/2500 straight six. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMC Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 One issue seemed to be a desire to compete with a higher market segment. Rather than drive this purely through product (where they lacked the money basically) they also attached a more prestigious brand to the product the try and achieve the effect. All that did was to erode the prestige of the brand. See also- launching the bubble 200 with an intention to compete with a higher market segment. Eventually they did a rethink and repositioned the 25 as a supermini which is what it was all the long really. Again a sort of denial or optimism despite the bare facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warren t claim Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 It's interesting to note that since about 1991 if you mention Rover to an American they assume a Rover is a Range Rover. This is regardless of the humour it causes to British listeners of rap and r'n'b songs. garethj, Missy Charm and NorfolkNWeigh 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warren t claim Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, HMC said: One issue seemed to be a desire to compete with a higher market segment. Rather than drive this purely through product (where they lacked the money basically) they also attached a more prestigious brand to the product the try and achieve the effect. All that did was to erode the prestige of the brand. See also- launching the bubble 200 with an intention to compete with a higher market segment. Eventually they did a rethink and repositioned the 25 as a supermini which is what it was all the long really. Again a sort of denial or optimism despite the bare facts. But BMW and Mercedes have had no such problems with their 1 Series/A Class?. Did the BMW 316i Compact of 1995 take the brand downmarket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timewaster Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 The Mercedes 3 point star has been stuck on some right old toss and it doesn't seem to hurt them Rusty Vito's, rebadged Kangoos, crumbly C classes, nothing seems to do much damage to the brand. warren t claim and chadders 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timewaster Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 48 minutes ago, garethj said: They definitely did on whichever motor show I attended as a spotty teenager. Ugh😳 I beg to differ. When the Austin name disappeared they simply became "Montego" adw1977 and Muniphobia 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethj Posted August 12, 2022 Author Share Posted August 12, 2022 9 minutes ago, Timewaster said: I beg to differ. When the Austin name disappeared they simply became "Montego" Ooh, maybe I’m wrong! Perhaps I was just overcome with the Rover branding on the stand? I could have sworn they had Rover badges on the show cars though. The Metro was a Rover 100, wasn’t it? Perhaps the lead water pipes back then have addled my brain Timewaster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH1TE Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 British Leyland was a spectrum of chaos with strikes every other day, unlike the hillman imp story nailed together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warren t claim Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 9 minutes ago, SH1TE said: British Leyland was a spectrum of chaos with strikes every other day, unlike the hillman imp story nailed together Then it's surprising that so many old BL plants are now productive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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