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1963 Mercedes Benz 190DC Fintail.


Dyslexic Viking
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Missed this thread until now, that looks a superb old Merc, well purchased. Glad you eventually got it home safe and sound. You seem to know your way round old school diesel tractors engines really well (not that I'm comparing it to a tractor mind), so I'm confident that you'll have this up running pretty sharpish.

I can't think of a better way to cruise around the Norwegian fjords then in this old stunner - you have won at life sir!

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Now that the car has arrived home, I have to make a sort of summary or whatever it should be called. Things did not go as planned, according to the seller, the car was supposed to be without mechanical problems, which was not true. The trip home didn't go as planned either. I had planned to find a place and spend the night on Friday night and then start early on Saturday and drive through an area that is pretty and take lots of pictures and enjoy myself, but that didn't happen.

But all in all, I'm very happy. I own one of my dream cars now, I just hope it doesn't hide any nasty surprises and that I can get the engine fixed soon.

And one last thing I feel I have to mention, I'm not rich so the purchase of this car, which wasn't cheap, entails some sacrifices, I have to try to sell the Audi and sacrifice some other things but it's worth it because we only live once and this was my chance to own one of these.

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2 hours ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

I doubt the one he had has the same engine as mine. Mine has the OM 621 engine and it went out of production in 1968. But there may be similarities?

@YossThe om602 in the 80's/ 90's w201 190d was still fully mechanical like the earlier Mercedes diesel engines so probably quite similar generally.

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I'm going to make this the thread for Mercedes so anything that happens with this and updates will come here.

So I start with the lift pump, this is clearly leaking diesel and with my experience with old tractors, this should be overhauled or replaced anyway for reliability.

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This a Bosch Fp/K22 M7 pump. 

And I can't find a direct new replacement, the ones I find are all slightly different. But I can find overhaul kits, but I'm struggling to understand how this pump works as the ones I'm used to have a diaphragm, which this one doesn't. The picture below is of a similar pump but with water seperator.

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And the overhaul kits I can easily get hold of are this below. Which I struggle to believe is enough to completely overhaul this pump?

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Does anyone have any ideas? I would prefer to keep the original pump or replace it with an identical new one.

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8 minutes ago, auntiemaryscanary said:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lift-pump-repair-kit-for-Bosch-FP-K22-pumps/324478216496

This has loads more parts than the one you showed... 

Thanks. It is a possibility, the only thing is that it is for a slightly different pump, so I wonder if the parts will fit. Something like the gasket against the engine is clearly different, my pump has 2 bolts, this is for 3 bolts.

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1 minute ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

Thanks. It is a possibility, the only thing is that it is for a slightly different pump, so I wonder if the parts will fit. Something like the gasket against the engine is clearly different, my pump has 2 bolts, this is for 3 bolts.

No problem - hope you get the Merc up and running without too much difficulty, it's a beautiful thing.

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A problem with the lift pump for this one is that it has 2 bolt holes like the pump underneath, while all new pumps I have found have 3.

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And the one below is the pump that is sold new and they clearly don't fit this one.

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And none of the Mercedes specialists I've checked have the correct pump or pump parts. So I don't know how to do this, an electric pump is possible but I want to keep the car original if possible and a mechanical pump is probably more reliable.

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1 hour ago, auntiemaryscanary said:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lift-pump-repair-kit-for-Bosch-FP-K22-pumps/324478216496

This has loads more parts than the one you showed... 

I took a chance and bought this kit and I hope it fits.

I have also ordered the small kit for the pump and a new diesel filter and a little more from Sweden.

Tomorrow I will have a closer look at the hoses and diesel system.

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Worked on the Mercedes all day today and have learned and found out a lot, possible there will be several posts to cover everything.

Started by loosening what I think is the bleed screw on the diesel filter. And when I did, I had my ear close and could clearly hear a lot of air coming out.

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Then I took off the hose from the fuel pipe to the lift pump and then the return hose from the filter to the pipe and both were completely empty without diesel so things are not as they should be. And the hose to the lift pump is very bad.

The next thing was to check the hoses at the fuel tank and they don't look too bad, but I change them anyway to be sure.

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But to change those involved emptying the tank.

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When the tank was empty and I had to change the hoses, I blew through the fuel pipes which I'm glad I did as this came out of the main pipe, the return wasn't that bad.

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The next thing was to look at the lift pump.

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And there I got a bad surprise, this seems to have leaked diesel into the engine and that would explain the high oil level and the fact that the oil level does not drop despite a heavy oil leak. It has also leaked a lot of diesel on the outside.

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And when disassembling the pump, I got another sad surprise, there are differences between this pump and the ones I have ordered a kit for.

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So I should have done this before I ordered the kit. I am now leaning towards replacing the lift pump with an electric pump. This is not something I wanted to do but I don't want to risk getting more diesel into the engine, I'm also not sure how good and durable I can make this pump be.

So I will research replacing lift pumps with electric ones. Tips are welcome. 

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I also received confirmation today that this car has very high mileage.

Is has a reconditioned engine. Which was put in a long time ago. And the text is in Swedish, which makes sense as the car has lived almost its entire life in the border areas with Sweden. And it tends to be cheaper to fix cars in Sweden than Norway. This is the tag on the engine block that is telling me this.

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All of the linkanges and more are verry worn and one linkage has fallen of now. The one on the left.

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But this is to be expected from a car that was most likely a taxi for most if not all of its first 10 years. And then had around 20 years as daily with different owners. But I would really like to know how many kilometers it has on it but we'll probably never know..

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8 minutes ago, junkyarddog said:

How do the seals in the Lift pump look?

Sometimes just taking old shit apart,checking,cleaning then reassembling can work wonders.

They are worn. There is also a shaft that goes through from the engine side to the fuel side and mine is worn that there is a little movement which in turn causes it to leak diesel.

So the best thing would be to replace the pump with a new one, but unfortunately this is not available as new. Which is a bit strange as the other types of this pump can be bought new.

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5 minutes ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

They are worn. There is also a shaft that goes through from the engine side to the fuel side and mine is worn that there is a little movement which in turn causes it to leak diesel.

So the best thing would be to replace the pump with a new one, but unfortunately this is not available as new. Which is a bit strange as the other types of this pump can be bought new.

I'd be tempted just to replace the seals and refit it.

Any hydraulic spares shop nearby?

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2 minutes ago, junkyarddog said:

I'd be tempted just to replace the seals and refit it.

Any hydraulic spares shop nearby?

It is some 1 hour away. But it will be expensive. Part of the pump doesn't have gaskets either, so it's not easy to get it to seal better.

But I'll have to think before I do anything and look a little more for the right pump.

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After a lot of research, I found out that Unimog used a version of this engine until the 80s. And the lift pump they used had 2 bolt holes like mine has.

This pump is  Bosch Fp / K 22 M3/8  and it has some differences but I think it can be used as I can just change the fittings, I hope.

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So after a bit of searching I found a diesel specialist in Germany who sells these new at a not too bad price so I bought one.

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So now I just have to hope that this is the right pump as there are few pictures and that I can get it working on my car.

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2 minutes ago, Nullzwei said:

What readings do you get from the in dash oil pressure guage? Have read that as long as the guage pins straight to the top (3?) with some revs then all is generally well with an old OMdiesel motor.

It has full oil pressure so that is a good sign. I think the engine is pretty good, it's just the big oil leak that worries me.

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I need to fix some rust areas on this which are surface rust and some rough surface rust. So since so many people have such good experiences with POR 15, I'm wondering about using this.

My plan then would be to wirewheel the entire required area then after cleaning apply Por 15 metal prep which is an acid that also applies some zinc and then paint on the Por 15.

Anny thoughts?

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  • Dyslexic Viking changed the title to 1963 Mercedes Benz 190DC Fintail.

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