Hyundai mark the end of scrappage.. by bangering an i10!

[fiatdaft]

well i would rather be in a modern in an accident.but do try to avoid them in the first place.also wouldn't put to much faith in a 25 year old car being as safe now as it was when new.

[Lankytim]

also wouldn't put to much faith in a 25 year old car being as safe now as it was when new.

True in most cases thanks to the ravages of rust but Volvo 740's and 940's have galvanised bodies so NERRRRR!

[fiatdaft]

do they not have seatbelt pretensioners or airbags?btw i have seen a few rusty volvos so NERRRR back at ya.

[Lankytim]

The last of the 940s had driver, passenger and side airbags, as well as seatbelt pretensioners. Im obviously not going to argue that old cars are better than new ones. Id much rather be in an i10 or any modern car in an accident than my allegro but just because a cars old doesnt mean you automatically die on impact in the event of an accident.The way some people harp on about safetly features in cars it makes you wonder how folk in the 60's and 70's managed to drive to work without being maimed or killed in accidents.

[504GL]

Im obviously not going to argue that old cars are better than new ones. Id much rather be in an i10 or any modern car in an accident than my allegro but just because a cars old doesnt mean you automatically die on impact in the event of an accident.

Yeah, sadly people buy into the fact that if you're not in the latest car that you'll die in an accident. These sort of people are suckers for ESP, ASR etc etc.

[fiatdaft]

my point about the ageing of the car is that pretensioners and airbags degrade over time.the road deaths in the 60's and 70's were 4 times what they are now.

[Lankytim]

my point about the ageing of the car is that pretensioners and airbags degrade over time.

They are meant to I agree, but Volvo keep extending the date by which they should be replaced. They should still work fine. Ofcourse the only way to test them would be to set them off. I suppose for piece of mind they could be replaced easily enough.

[504GL]

my point about the ageing of the car is that pretensioners and airbags degrade over time.

They are meant to I agree, but Volvo keep extending the date by which they should be replaced. They should still work fine. Ofcourse the only way to test them would be to set them off. I suppose for piece of mind they could be replaced easily enough.

Expensive though and would probably mean getting rid for most people.

[Lankytim]

Nah, you could just go to a breakers and get them from a vehicle of the same age.

 

No, hang on, thats not quite right......

[Guest]

With regards to the safety of old cars, I drive old cars all the time, down the motorway and everything.Each crash is different and a circumstance that could save you in one crash could present you with your conclusion in the next. You've just got to do your best and take it as it comes, if it's time to cash in your chips, there's not a lot you can do about it. I'd rather not have airbags at all, because they scare the hell out of me.

[Rusty Pelican]

Mrs RP hates air bags , shes not keen on having an exploding device 3ft from wheres shes sat

[Lankytim]

..Also if you do drive 25 year old rusted out poxbox you are more likely to drive with safety in mind as opposed to those who drive in their multi airbagged bubble who no doubt feel pretty safe.

[Milford Cubicle]

At least you can see out of older cars.

[Tayne]

.

[FredTransit]

OR people now have a false sense of security in their moderns and their driving has reflected this.

[Rusty Pelican]

OR people now have a false sense of security in their moderns and their driving has reflected this.

I think thats part of it , surrounded by air bags , crumple zones and N-CAP ratings they feel invinible , perhaps we should go backwards , crap sealed beam headlights certainly slowed me down in the early 80s along with crap brakes and road noise , theres no sence of speed in a modern , you could be doing over a ton and it feels like your sitting in the lounge at home , in some states in the US you dont need to wear helmets on motorbikes , ive been told by a biker over there it cuts the speed right down as you cant breath ,you get flies in your eyes and its generally unpleasant at high speed . Make it complusory to have wheels well out of balance over 80 , certainly slows me down.

[dollywobbler]

Or there are simply more cars to have more accidents...

[FredTransit]

That too, also I am a big believer in learning to drive BEFORE getting behind the wheel alone....

[fiatdaft]

Total UK road deaths have been hovering around 3 to 3.5 thousand since the early 90s.Highest peactime roaddeath year was 1966 with just under 8000.NCAP has been in existence since 1997.Either the past 15 years or so of safety advances haven't made much difference OR driving standards are going down.

bollockshttp://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=1208

[504GL]

OR people now have a false sense of security in their moderns and their driving has reflected this.

I've started threads suggesting this on other forums, no one else has ever agreed with me before

[fiatdaft]

no wonder,road deaths are down,and the number of drivers on the roads has massivly increased.

[504GL]

no wonder,road deaths are down,and the number of drivers on the roads has massivly increased.

Good point. But during this time tyre technology has improved as well as road design as well. Would be interesting to see a study which looked at all the factors and showed whether or not people are less risk averse these days with cars being so much better in accidents

[Tayne]

.

[Nervy Si]

Lots of interesting thoughts here.

OR people now have a false sense of security in their moderns and their driving has reflected this.

Isn't there a cycling lobby which believes the same about bike helmets? i.e. since we had to wear cycle helmets, cyclists take greater risks. I dunno - when I'm behind a 45mph-merchant on a perfectly decent NSL road I don't detect any brash, undue security! There again some folk do drive on the motorway as if it's Mario Kart.

At least you can see out of older cars.

Damn right. Never had a 'new' car, but sitting in cars at the motorshow (Citroen C5, Accord, Insignia) I was surprised by how hard it is to just look outside.

Also if you do drive 25 year old rusted out poxbox you are more likely to drive with safety in mind

I reckon you're right, trouble is the airbag-ABS-traction-radar-will-save-me-I'm-invincible crowd driving like oafs and smacking into you, as mentioned earlier.

my point about the ageing of the car is that pretensioners and airbags degrade over time.

Good question. How well do these (for their time) advanced safety features survive the intervening years? My old Jag XJ(don't poke the bulkhead with anything pointy)40 had twin airbags, both stickered as due for inspection in 2009. Would they have worked? Would the bulkhead have stood any more than a sharpish kerbing incident? Who knows.I have to agree with the folks who have said that all accidents are different, you never know what will get you or when. Fair enough, be a safe driver and don't drive a deathtrap, but you have to live your life too, innit.

[504GL]

Isn't there a cycling lobby which believes the same about bike helmets? i.e. since we had to wear cycle helmets, cyclists take greater risks.

Nowadays you get the lycra pants brigade who think that it's OK to ride on the road in a 60 zone when there's a perfectly good cycle path 5 metres away.

[RedSparrow]

Isn't there a cycling lobby which believes the same about bike helmets? i.e. since we had to wear cycle helmets, cyclists take greater risks.

Nowadays you get the lycra pants brigade who think that it's OK to ride on the road in a 60 zone when there's a perfectly good cycle path 5 metres away.

Argh that annoys me. The council put a cycle path on the promenade the entire length of the seafront and along side the main A-road here as a safety measure, but these pricks still weave in and out of traffic on the road. Might see what they say if I drive down the fucking cycle path.

[504GL]

Isn't there a cycling lobby which believes the same about bike helmets? i.e. since we had to wear cycle helmets, cyclists take greater risks.

Nowadays you get the lycra pants brigade who think that it's OK to ride on the road in a 60 zone when there's a perfectly good cycle path 5 metres away.

Argh that annoys me. The council put a cycle path on the promenade the entire length of the seafront and along side the main A-road here as a safety measure, but these pricks still weave in and out of traffic on the road. Might see what they say if I drive down the fucking cycle path.

Oh well, survival of the fittest and all that!

[wilko]

I had the "are drivers getting worse" chat with a traffic cop the other day - he reckons not, I'm not sure?Thinking back to when I first started driving in 1995, me and my mates all had 80's cars - 205's, mk2 Fiestas, Renault 5's initially then moving on to Sierras, Cavaliers etc... which have no modern safety features other than a collapsible steering column & are both faster and weaker than many 60's and 70's cars.We (well certainly I) used to drive like complete lunatics from time to time - speed cameras and traffic patrols were pretty much non-existant round our way - when I drive down the same roads now, I cannot believe the speed I used to drive them at. I can still be a bit of wally from time to time, but nothing like how I was back then - there is a road with a corner which these days, I will lift off for if approaching at 60mph and not in a rush, back then I would take it with my foot nailed to the floor at about 95mph. In those 80's cars, I'm fairly sure one mistake or twist of fate at over 70mph would have killed me - I was very lucky to grow up enough to see that - ironically, I had a clean license until I was 22. You'd simply never get away with 4 years of driving like that now without aquiring points or a ban.On the other hand, driving like a pr!ck in cars without ABS, traction control etc... and then moving on to racing on the track has at least given me a good appreciation for grip & road conditions - when I get in a modern car with a lot of people, it's usually how they drive in greasy or frosty conditions that startles me - a lot of them barely seem to drive any differently to how they drive in dry sunshine, and that scares me.

[Guest]

One difficulty is that nowadays pretty much any old tosspot can have some irritatingly snorty TDi engine and drive like they're being chased by a Mad Max style biker gang. Even most vans are pretty fast now.Regularly see people in A3s and 318Ds doing 90 in a 50, back in the day they'd probably have an Astra 1.3S and Cortina 1.6L so there'd be none of those shenanigans.

[Pete-M]

One difficulty is that nowadays pretty much any old tosspot can have some irritatingly snorty TDi engine and drive like they're being chased by a Mad Max style biker gang. Even most vans are pretty fast now.Regularly see people in A3s and 318Ds doing 90 in a 50, back in the day they'd probably have an Astra 1.3S and Cortina 1.6L so there'd be none of those shenanigans.

When I was first driving the average motorway speed of a Mk1 Cavalier / Mk5 Cortina 2.0 was around 100 mph everywhere. NSL meant "No sodding limit" and doing 80 on the ring road around Liverpool (40 limit) wasn't considered unusual. My mum used to do 65 on it, ffs.Nowadays I very rarely see anyone doing 15 mph over the limit anywhere. Unfortunately, although cars handle a lot better than they did, they seem to be driven with a lot less skill.Lowering the speed limits and making the cars safer has undoubtedly lowered driving standards in my view. The only thing people seem to be better at is avoiding speed cameras.