'FolkUs' Family-Bike Xsara Picasso...

[maxxo]

25 minutes ago, RoverFolkUs said:

That's just under 300 miles each way! That's a shame but thanks anyway

What sort of setup do you have? Is there any kit you'd particularly recommend or is it just a case of a laptop, the software and a cable like Forscan for my Focuses?

basically yes, the kits from ebay usually come with all the required interfaces anyway

windows XP makes life way easier for an operating system for the laptop

as does a working battery lol

[RoverFolkUs]

Does anybody have a Xsara Picasso sales brochure and would be kind enough to check something for me? 

I am trying to ascertain if the headunit fitted is factory, if it's not factory and it is what's causing the battery drain it will be fucked off. 

Model is a Sony CDX-F5500

For reference, mine is a 2006 facelift model, Desire trim level

Having looked on eBay there aren't many Sony headunits in reference to Citroen Xsara Picasso's. 

They all seem to look like this:

But the one fitted looks like this, I'm wondering if it was an option..

Cheers!

[AnnoyingPentium]

I'm wondering if it was a dealer-fit option or something?

[RoverFolkUs]

Just now, AnnoyingPentium said:

I'm wondering if it was a dealer-fit option or something?

Yes that maybe the case. 

In the handbook it just says to "see extra documents from your Citroen dealer for the entertainment system" 

Included was a handbook for the above mentioned Sony headunit

I'd quite like to have the Citroen/Siemens one, but if it's not what's draining the battery I'll leave it alone!

[Captain Mainwaring]

These are comfy.

[maxxo]

49 minutes ago, RoverFolkUs said:

Does anybody have a Xsara Picasso sales brochure and would be kind enough to check something for me? 

I am trying to ascertain if the headunit fitted is factory, if it's not factory and it is what's causing the battery drain it will be fucked off. 

Model is a Sony CDX-F5500

For reference, mine is a 2006 facelift model, Desire trim level

Having looked on eBay there aren't many Sony headunits in reference to Citroen Xsara Picasso's. 

They all seem to look like this:

But the one fitted looks like this, I'm wondering if it was an option..

Cheers!

I'll take a look for you when I get home, I've got the brochures 

But I'm 99% sure the only dealer radio option was an under seat 6 disc changer

Likely a well installed aftermarket system with interfaces for the stalk control 

There's potential it could be causing an issue with a battery drain

[RoverFolkUs]

1 hour ago, Captain Mainwaring said:

These are comfy.

I must say the seats are really comfortable! Much better than the ones in my LX Focus, I'd say about on par with the velour ones in my GHIA Focus

1 hour ago, maxxo said:

I'll take a look for you when I get home, I've got the brochures 

But I'm 99% sure the only dealer radio option was an under seat 6 disc changer

Likely a well installed aftermarket system with interfaces for the stalk control 

There's potential it could be causing an issue with a battery drain

That would be great cheers

I'll do some digging with the headunit, it does now seem like an aftermarket setup or dealer freebie etc

[RoverFolkUs]

It's not looking like it's the alternator causing the drain as I disconnected it and not a scooby of difference. Still getting a 120mA draw, it randomly dips to 50mA for half a second or so then jumps back to 120mA, almost like something keeps waking up. I sat there for 5 mins holding the multimeter to it in series to get those results before I got bored lol

I'm only using my el cheapo multimeter from eBay, which I don't fully trust, so I'll wait until I borrow the amp clamp so I can get a reading from that before pulling fuses

After disconnecting then reconnecting the alternator it seems to be charging fine. Before I only got 12.6v with everything switched on at idle but now it's 14.5v at idle no matter what I switch on which is good. 

That's strange as I struggle to see how disconnecting and reconnecting the 12v feed to it can improve things. There was a little bit of crap on the connection but nothing that would cause resistance etc. 

Once again I've fully recharged the battery, with the way things have gone I expect it to be completely flat in 4-5 days or so. 

That's also strange - it's a 62aH battery, and a 120mA draw, so I don't see how it's managing to flatten in 5 days 🤔

I'm going to see if I can get a scope/data logger on it to see if there's any spikes in current draw over a long period of time 

Fun* stuff...!

[RoverFolkUs]

Further update... 

When using my (crap) multimeter in series to measure the current draw, I'm assuming not all the systems had woken up to cause a draw because the battery obviously has to be disconnected to use a multimeter for current draw. 

Anyway, having borrowed the decent amp clamp from work, with the doors unlocked + open it's drawing 0.9A (!) - (900mA to be clear)

With the doors locked up, it sits at 0.6A (600mA) 

That's obviously not ideal, and the cause of the battery drain!

With my calculations:

It's a 62aH battery... 62aH / 0.6 A = 103.3 hours = 4.3 days. Which is about right, the battery indeed is usually flat after 5 days

I'm assuming that's a dead short somewhere. 

Longer term current draw test and fuse pulling will occur tomorrow! 

[RoverFolkUs]

Battery drain cause found.... I think

After locking it up, it sat at 0.6A and slowly dropped to 0.25A. It was fluctuating a bit but averaged 0.25A. 

I started pulling fuses in the interior fusebox, then I got to Fuse 4.... It dropped to 0.03A. Aha! Perfect!

Now what's fuse 4 for? 

"F4- Switch module, Radio, Instrument panel, Navigation"

I thought the radio was easiest to fiddle with first out of that lot so reconnected the fuse. Unplugged the radio and it's back down to 0.03-0.05A. Success!

I now discover it's definitely not original. A butcher seems to have been in there before

First plan is to swap the yellow and red wires around so it loses its permanent live. If no success I will be returning it all back to factory including a factory headunit etc!

Battery on charge again, radio disconnected. If the battery isn't flattened again in 5 days I'm calling that a result

 

[maxxo]

On 4/23/2022 at 4:18 PM, RoverFolkUs said:

Battery drain cause found.... I think

After locking it up, it sat at 0.6A and slowly dropped to 0.25A. It was fluctuating a bit but averaged 0.25A. 

I started pulling fuses in the interior fusebox, then I got to Fuse 4.... It dropped to 0.03A. Aha! Perfect!

Now what's fuse 4 for? 

"F4- Switch module, Radio, Instrument panel, Navigation"

I thought the radio was easiest to fiddle with first out of that lot so reconnected the fuse. Unplugged the radio and it's back down to 0.03-0.05A. Success!

I now discover it's definitely not original. A butcher seems to have been in there before

First plan is to swap the yellow and red wires around so it loses its permanent live. If no success I will be returning it all back to factory including a factory headunit etc!

Battery on charge again, radio disconnected. If the battery isn't flattened again in 5 days I'm calling that a result

 

i've got a factory head unit you are welcome to, untested though.......free of charge

[maxxo]

6 minutes ago, MrGTI6 said:

Used to get these in as PX all the time. Usually totally abused/neglected and stinking of wet dog. In spite of that, the vast majority would drive remarkably well! These things are far tougher than they're given credit for, and considering the earliest ones are now 23 years old, there's still loads of them knocking about.

They're bloody good!

[RoverFolkUs]

1 hour ago, maxxo said:

i've got a factory head unit you are welcome to, untested though.......free of charge

Very kind offer, I've just bought a couple of aftermarket ones from the car boot today, if I don't get anywhere with them I'll give you a shout if that's ok, cheers 😄

[maxxo]

6 minutes ago, RoverFolkUs said:

Very kind offer, I've just bought a couple of aftermarket ones from the car boot today, if I don't get anywhere with them I'll give you a shout if that's ok, cheers 😄

not a problem, i wish you the best of luck

[RoverFolkUs]

43 minutes ago, MrGTI6 said:

Used to get these in as PX all the time. Usually totally abused/neglected and stinking of wet dog. In spite of that, the vast majority would drive remarkably well! These things are far tougher than they're given credit for, and considering the earliest ones are now 23 years old, there's still loads of them knocking about.

Most of them I see are abused but this one is a slight exception. The first owner clearly kept it perfect mechanically and apparently cosmetically clean, just a few scrapes on the bodywork, the person I got if off used it as a mobile shed/van so it has taken a bit of effort but it's come up really well. 

Once I've sorted it mechanically I'm going to tackle the bodywork and paint it, there's a dent on one of the doors which I think will mostly hammer out from the inside and with a skim of filler and coat of paint it will look 10 times better 

[carlo]

I'm super pleased with the 2.0 Auto Exclusive version I bought last year.  I think they are actually pretty decent to drive, especially for an MPV of the time.  Probably one of the last French cars to keep that 80/90s French ride quality and although they roll (so what?) the handling isn't too bad at all.  The 2.0 goes really well.  They seem to be pretty simple cars, probably why so many still kick about.

And the amount of stuff you can move around in the back of them is just insane.

[RoverFolkUs]

With the middle seat removed the available load length is about 2.1m thanks to the lack of transmission tunnel. To be honest I think with all passenger seats out they're bigger than a transit connect and other small van offerings of that era.

They are literally ten times better than a Zafira A which I think are utterly crap. 

Not sure how it holds up to a Megane Scenic or similar but I would imagine the Citroen is better

My old Daewoo Tacuma (basically a watered down Zafira) was nowhere near as nice as this. It was a fantastic car and was very reliable, but the build quality was just very poor though. Typical '00s GM!

 

[RoverFolkUs]

Excellent, battery drain cause confirmed. 

Its sat untouched for 6 days and battery is absolutely fine, no economy mode either.

Before I unplugged the headunit the battery was stone dead after about 4-5 days (~10 volts)

Success, that's that ticked off the list. Just got to sort an alternative arrangement for a radio

[maxxo]

43 minutes ago, RoverFolkUs said:

Excellent, battery drain cause confirmed. 

Its sat untouched for 6 days and battery is absolutely fine, no economy mode either.

Before I unplugged the headunit the battery was stone dead after about 4-5 days (~10 volts)

Success, that's that ticked off the list. Just got to sort an alternative arrangement for a radio

Offer still stands, got a picasso radio here free of charge

At least I'm 99% certain I do 😂

Have you got a lexia?

 

[RoverFolkUs]

37 minutes ago, maxxo said:

Offer still stands, got a picasso radio here free of charge

At least I'm 99% certain I do 😂

Have you got a lexia?

 

I don't have Lexia (at the moment) 

If I'm not wrong I think a Citroen headunit would need to be coded in otherwise it'll bleep every so often?

To be honest I've not done anything with the 3 headunits I've got yet as I've been kept busy with the Focus!

[maxxo]

9 minutes ago, RoverFolkUs said:

I don't have Lexia (at the moment) 

If I'm not wrong I think a Citroen headunit would need to be coded in otherwise it'll bleep every so often?

To be honest I've not done anything with the 3 headunits I've got yet as I've been kept busy with the Focus!

if you'd like a factory unit i can code it for you

if i plug it into the C5 and tell the radio your vin in theory that should work....i've had success with it before

[RoverFolkUs]

6 minutes ago, maxxo said:

if you'd like a factory unit i can code it for you

if i plug it into the C5 and tell the radio your vin in theory that should work....i've had success with it before

That would be fantastic if I don't get anywhere with my other headunits. Only reason I'd like to give an aftermarket unit one more try is for Bluetooth on the rare occasions I use it

once again I appreciate your very kind offer

[maxxo]

6 minutes ago, RoverFolkUs said:

That would be fantastic if I don't get anywhere with my other headunits. Only reason I'd like to give an aftermarket unit one more try is for Bluetooth on the rare occasions I use it

once again I appreciate your very kind offer

not a problem, i may well be going down south at the end may (crawley area)

if you're not too far i'm more than happy to sort the radio for you with lexia if you get noweher with the aftermarket units

[OM646]

5 hours ago, RoverFolkUs said:

I don't have Lexia (at the moment) 

If I'm not wrong I think a Citroen headunit would need to be coded in otherwise it'll bleep every so often?

To be honest I've not done anything with the 3 headunits I've got yet as I've been kept busy with the Focus!

It will bleep. Just installed yesterday a factory radio in a Berlingo B9 that wouldn't work with the Sony installed there. It'll stay off though, I'm awaiting the EMF-C display to arrive from Lithuania to code everything with diagbox

[RoverFolkUs]

28 minutes ago, OM646 said:

It will bleep. Just installed yesterday a factory radio in a Berlingo B9 that wouldn't work with the Sony installed there. It'll stay off though, I'm awaiting the EMF-C display to arrive from Lithuania to code everything with diagbox

Thanks, if it gets to me needing an OEM unit, maxxo has very kindly offered to help with that  

Is diagbox a "watered-down" version of Lexia or is it what connects the car to a separate windows computer like, for example, the VAGcom dongles for VAG cars?

[OM646]

1 hour ago, RoverFolkUs said:

Thanks, if it gets to me needing an OEM unit, maxxo has very kindly offered to help with that  

Is diagbox a "watered-down" version of Lexia or is it what connects the car to a separate windows computer like, for example, the VAGcom dongles for VAG cars?

Not even sure. I asked my friend who's a PSA guru and Citroën encyclopedia, if "I needed Lexia to code the Berlingo" and he replied "being a 2012 it'll need DiagBox".

 

I did a search on it and apparently Diagbox is the newer version, containing the software for the newer PSA models (as well as PP2000 and Lexia for older ones??? I'm kinda confused)

[OM646]

Plus, if you get nowhere with aftermarket units and end up taking @maxxo's offer, I think you can always get a Bluetooth dongle from china that will be recognized by the OEM headunit as a CD changer, which is a nice thing to have while keeping the stock look 

[RoverFolkUs]

Bit of an update on the Xsara Picasso

It's sat there for 3 weeks now and started up on the button today which is excellent. I've got a new Sony headunit which doesn't seem to draw much current so I've just got to tidy up the wiring and install it nicely. 

Small snagging list - 

Minor oil leak from sump - I believe and hope it's just the sump plug washer, which I will rectify when I service it, when due, later this year

Minor PAS leak. Sigh, joy of joys! The rack inlet area looks damp, but not too bad. I'll ignore that for now and just keep an eye on it

Front passenger seat rail keeps jamming up. This is really annoying me as it keeps getting stuck every time I want to access the battery so will need to see to that with some grease, or if need be install a replacement seat mechanism which I do have on standby

Brakes are a bit squeaky so I suspect it's all going to need greasing up. None binding though, which is good

Aux belt tensioner is a bit weak as it's flapping about when running so best sort that

Rear exhaust band clamp has rusted away and snapped which is making the most irritating noise possible. That will be first to resolve! 

So nothing too bad there and nothing a bit of TLC won't solve. It's not actually needed at the moment so will be parked up for a short while off road to save some pennies then I'll just give it a good going over to address the above niggles

Suspect that will be it for updates until later this year 

[maxxo]

On 5/14/2022 at 4:57 PM, RoverFolkUs said:

Bit of an update on the Xsara Picasso

It's sat there for 3 weeks now and started up on the button today which is excellent. I've got a new Sony headunit which doesn't seem to draw much current so I've just got to tidy up the wiring and install it nicely. 

Small snagging list - 

Minor oil leak from sump - I believe and hope it's just the sump plug washer, which I will rectify when I service it, when due, later this year

Minor PAS leak. Sigh, joy of joys! The rack inlet area looks damp, but not too bad. I'll ignore that for now and just keep an eye on it

Front passenger seat rail keeps jamming up. This is really annoying me as it keeps getting stuck every time I want to access the battery so will need to see to that with some grease, or if need be install a replacement seat mechanism which I do have on standby

Brakes are a bit squeaky so I suspect it's all going to need greasing up. None binding though, which is good

Aux belt tensioner is a bit weak as it's flapping about when running so best sort that

Rear exhaust band clamp has rusted away and snapped which is making the most irritating noise possible. That will be first to resolve! 

So nothing too bad there and nothing a bit of TLC won't solve. It's not actually needed at the moment so will be parked up for a short while off road to save some pennies then I'll just give it a good going over to address the above niggles

Suspect that will be it for updates until later this year 

sounds like it's doing well.....

you have to remember, it's 16 years old and it was a cheap car when it was new

the way they seem to hold up is quite staggering really considering most are neglected, abused and run to the ground

[RoverFolkUs]

3 minutes ago, maxxo said:

sounds like it's doing well.....

you have to remember, it's 16 years old and it was a cheap car when it was new

the way they seem to hold up is quite staggering really considering most are neglected, abused and run to the ground

That's a good point, it's certainly holding up better now compared to its right wing competitor, the Zafira and left wing competitor, the Tacuma of which there are virtually none left!

Even still, I see far more Xsara Picassos about than Renault Scenics (the MPV one) which I would consider to be it's direct competitor at the time

Among all the neglected, rusty sheds out there, I see far more tidy Picassos than Zafiras. Citroen must have done something right with them

I've also noticed a lot of parts for them are pretty cheap

As a side note, I noticed today that the Aux belt is  exposed through the drivers side wheel arch, I don't think that's how it should be, surely should be a guard there.. I'll get a picture when I'm next near it