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Are you going to have to change car because of fuel prices?


DirtyDaily

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2 minutes ago, SiC said:

Perhaps going back to some of the transport options of the pre-70s for most won't be a bad thing?

In theory I wouldn't have a problem with that, but the difficulty is that a) public transport options have declined significantly and become more expensive since the pre-70s especially in the rural areas where this will hit hardest, and b) employer's expectations are still rigidly set that you must be present at a set location between set times to be productive.

There is also the issue of shift work, manual work, anything that requires a presence outwith the location and limited timetable of public transport. And sadly these people are the ones that earn the least and will suffer the most.

If I could hop on a bus/train and get to work in a reasonable time and cost then I would. As it stands it would take me 6 times as long (no exaggeration) and it would still be multiple times more expensive than ragging the LS400 to work every day in sport mode.

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2 minutes ago, juular said:

a) public transport options have declined significantly and become more expensive since the pre-70s especially in the rural areas where this will hit hardest

In hindsight, Beeching cuts, privatisation of public transport, expanding of the road network with only powered vehicles in mind, etc that favour profit and the motorcar don't look like a great path to have gone down. We're now paying for the price of those policy decisions given our reliance on the car and lorries. Even worse those decisions have put the country under further control of other countries - whether producing the vehicles or providing their motive power.

To get out of this predicament is going to be painful and needs a monumental shift in policy. Usually these things only happen during extreme events. Maybe history will tell us that the current events are what does this?

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Just for an example.

Taking the campervan to work :

23mins each way - £9.66 per day @£1.70/L

Public transport:

2h 15mins  each way - £27 per day

 

Diesel would have to rise to around £5 a litre before public transport would match the cost. Even then, I'd choose the van purely for the time factor. 4 and a half hours on public transport daily sounds like a job in itself.

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I don’t think I will change car currently, as most of my mileage is discretionary nowadays, and my current commute is two days a week and about 9 miles each way. Also, it’s something that’s known good, and I’ve sorted out the niggles and long term maintenance that needed doing (2005 BMW 330i). If I sold it and bought something else, I know I’d plow the money I would save on fuel into whatever needed doing.

 

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As I’m a financial genius, I got rid of all our super economical diesels over the last 6 months or so. Also my current job will come to an end on 31/03. 
Do I care care?
Do I fuck!
Although that CLS 500 or 545i I was searching for will probably turn into an XF 2.2 d or 520d ( if the stupid prices come down) 

I remember panic about £1 per gallon and £1 per litre and everyone having to give up their cars £2 per litre will be no different, I’m sure.

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2 hours ago, dave j said:

The Mrs has a Shogun Sport and it's terrible on fuel so I suspect she will be using my Octavia a bit more. She has the Shogun for towing a horsebox which has barely moved for the last 2 years so really we would be much better off getting rid of both. 

Make something like this with the horsebox chassis?

1963137684_Screenshot2022-03-07at13_46_46.thumb.png.5dcdf9941e135324fdb08ab1ac108574.png

 

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2 hours ago, SiC said:

Devils avocate - Perhaps it's not a bad thing that people can't afford to keep buying "more stuff".

The Western world has been having increased living standards for the last half century and longer. It turns out those increases are massively helped by cheap, dirty energy and processes. The "increased living standards" we've had also don't look particularly healthy with obesity epidemic, long term health issues (asthma, anaphylaxis increases and such) and declining mental health. Most (working) population alive today won't really have experienced a time before the rise of the car. Perhaps going back to some of the transport options of the pre-70s for most won't be a bad thing? 

Of course easy for me for say but the reality is that there is no clear indication things are going to get better. Even if fuel rebate was reduced, fuel still will be rising and other living costs will soak up more than any savings. It's looking like a case of make do to survive for so many. *Which is brutal on an individual level but perhaps on a global scale less so.

*Good Thought....

I have always taken that 'tree hugger' line "... A disaster looms!! Chopping down Amazon to grow wheat for beef to supply far-eastern McDonalds >> As the 'flipflop wearing rice eaters' discover Western Decadence and ask for more..." as more like, "..yeah well, we have even more resource intensive menu options - move along the plank everyone..".

A reset is sorely overdue 😱

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7 minutes ago, Jerzy Woking said:

Where can I buy a camel? Rather that than a Bantam (I probably had a dozen or so when in my teens. Never again).

Dreadful things to own, unreliable, smelly, incontinent and spit back all the time. Not sure what a camel would be like though.

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I own 3 v8s, 1 v12, 2 v6s and 1 inline 6. I really ought to buy a diesel if I want to be able to drive around if we hit £3 Litre or more. Who knows how high it will go? Or if WW3 does start we'll be back to rations of 2 gallons a week

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17 minutes ago, cbowditch said:

I own 3 v8s, 1 v12, 2 v6s and 1 inline 6. I really ought to buy a diesel if I want to be able to drive around if we hit £3 Litre or more. Who knows how high it will go? Or if WW3 does start we'll be back to *rations of 2 gallons a week

...... Two gallons of clean water, then reuse for ablutions 😱

'War to end All Wars', eh.......

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I don't think I will need to change a car just yet. I may need to change my habits though. Despite still working from home I am clocking up over 15k miles a year. Some of that is for site visits for work, but a lot is for unessential trips to places like Greggs.

I could probably drop a car, or two.

I did contemplate an EV, but still not quite ready for that leap.

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I do not intend changing my cars for more economical ones and certainly wouldn’t consider buying an electric one.   
After years of saying I would not buy a diesel though I bought the Mercedes estate as it was the cheapest rear wheel drive estate I could find for taking the dog out, it is surprisingly nice to drive and very economical, getting up to 40 mpg on a run but usually 30 mpg for running around locally, the Panda does 50 mpg if we need mega economy.  It seems to be one thing after another lately though as E10 petrol is another hit forcing us to use super unleaded in the proper cars, this and rapidly increasing prices will probably mean I will be unable to retire as early as I was planning. By strange coincidence after buying a diesel through choice as a runabout after years of being forced to drive diesels for work my next company car will be petrol as they now allow petrol hybrids, the range on electric though is only around 30 miles which seems pointless for a company car so true economy on that will be interesting to see.

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now allow petrol hybrids, the range on electric though is only around 30 miles which seems pointless for a company car so true economy on that will be interesting to see.


Petrol hybrids have a much lower BIK charge so that'll be why that's an option now as an incentive to get people in more economical cars. All bollocks of course. I even heard somewhere that e10 fuel is actually worse for the environment than e5? I believe they get the ethanol from corn plants and its ATLEAST 24% worse for the environment. Its like the world is exploding and we are trying to put it out with dynamite.
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2 minutes ago, DirtyDaily said:


 

 


Petrol hybrids have a much lower BIK charge so that'll be why that's an option now as an incentive to get people in more economical cars. All bollocks of course. I even heard somewhere that e10 fuel is actually worse for the environment than e5? I believe they get the ethanol from corn plants and its ATLEAST 24% worse for the environment. Its like the world is exploding and we are trying to put it out with dynamite.

 

You are absolutely correct, the reason I chose a hybrid is due to BIK, the charge way exceeds any benefit. I was not allowed to have an electric car so hybrid was next cheapest. My last company car was costing a fortune in BIK so I currently have a pickup which is great* for the environment. 

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10 hours ago, DirtyDaily said:


 

 


That's what the market experts expect...

At £2 a litre driving is seriously expensive and there will i suspect 100s of thousands if not millions that will have to take some sort of action to mitigate it somehow. Whether that be buying a frugal diesel, walking, cycling, public transport, changing jobs, retiring etc.
A lot of those options is what the government are actively encouraging at the moment so to them I suspect this could be a first real push to getting people out of cars. The bi product though could be serious poverty on a lot of the population
 

 

I don’t agree with that.  They’ll make some effort to save fuel, drive slower, less non essential journeys.  But I think the savings will come elsewhere from eating out, take aways etc.

I think people will always try to own a car as they’re so handy to have around!

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I don’t agree with that.  They’ll make some effort to save fuel, drive slower, less non essential journeys.  But I think the savings will come elsewhere from eating out, take aways etc.
I think people will always try to own a car as they’re so handy to have around!
Well the etc. Did cover those mentioned above but they're still damaging to the economy and will end up closing businesses and losing people jobs. Whatever way we cut it it's going to hurt alot of people. I agree though people will cling to their cars with all their strength.
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4 minutes ago, DirtyDaily said:
6 minutes ago, MJK 24 said:
I don’t agree with that.  They’ll make some effort to save fuel, drive slower, less non essential journeys.  But I think the savings will come elsewhere from eating out, take aways etc.
I think people will always try to own a car as they’re so handy to have around!

Well the etc. Did cover those mentioned above but they're still damaging to the economy and will end up closing businesses and losing people jobs. Whatever way we cut it it's going to hurt alot of people. I agree though people will cling to their cars with all their strength.

I’m sure there’s lobbying going on as we speak to persuade OPEC to ramp up production a bit to cover what we’re now rightly refusing to buy from Russia.

I think we will see the Government tweak the fuel tax or VAT to give us a few pence back.

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I’m sure there’s lobbying going on as we speak to persuade OPEC to ramp up production a bit to cover what we’re now rightly refusing to buy from Russia.
I think we will see the Government tweak the fuel tax or VAT to give us a few pence back.
I don't think they'll reduce tax. I don't think they can afford to which is why they refused to help in any meaningful way with the gas bill. I do think that oil from everywhere other than Russia will be ramping up. They have to.
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3 minutes ago, DirtyDaily said:
6 minutes ago, MJK 24 said:
I’m sure there’s lobbying going on as we speak to persuade OPEC to ramp up production a bit to cover what we’re now rightly refusing to buy from Russia.
I think we will see the Government tweak the fuel tax or VAT to give us a few pence back.

I don't think they'll reduce tax. I don't think they can afford to which is why they refused to help in any meaningful way with the gas bill. I do think that oil from everywhere other than Russia will be ramping up. They have to.

Well they’re enjoying a bit of a windfall with the VAT on fuel at the moment.

A year ago, they were making £0.20 in VAT on every litre of diesel sold.  Now they’re making £0.28.  

Thats £4 extra in VAT on a typical 50 litre tank of fuel. 

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8 hours ago, juular said:

Just for an example.

Taking the campervan to work :

23mins each way - £9.66 per day @£1.70/L

Public transport:

2h 15mins  each way - £27 per day

 

Diesel would have to rise to around £5 a litre before public transport would match the cost. Even then, I'd choose the van purely for the time factor. 4 and a half hours on public transport daily sounds like a job in itself.

Unfortunately public transport, outside cities anyway, is often the preserve of middle class married men and twenty something singles as they are the only ones with the time on their hands to sod about with alternative means of travel.  The rest have children to look after, houses to manage, relatives to care for, shopping to carry and so on.  I'd love to have the free hours in the day to be able to use public transport to get to work, but I just don't. 

Why the middle class married men?  Because they have wives and aren't, by dint of having commuting jobs, also the primary parent.  The boring domestic stuff happens as if by magic: there's a clean, warm house to arrive at; the kids are doing their homework and dinner is on the table.  Bliss.  Husband feels hard done to because he's had to spend an hour and a half sitting in a railway carriage reading a Lee Child novel, or more likely sending emails on his telephone, but it's no great hardship.  Not really.  It's not the same as spending those hours cleaning or cooking or, lower down the social scale, working a second job or taking over from husband or wife so he or she can go out and put in a late shift at the supermarket.  Those people haven't got spare time.  Every hour is filled.  Each minute matters.  The notion of sauntering out of the railway station, donning lycra and leisurely pedalling off into the evening because it doesn't really matter what time you get home is lunatic; they have to take to the roads because cars save time.   Cars are expensive, and they aren't ideal, but they do give hours back.  And what of the wives?  Left behind when the commuter leaves for his train?  They can't use public transport because their role is peripatetic: school to shops to soft-play to home to someone else's place to school; you get the idea.  Round and round, often in a Chelsea tractor bought by husband to protect his offspring thus arousing the ire of cyclist husband next door.  There's an irony, somewhere.  

Unfortunately middle class married men are often in charge of transport policy and only have single twenty-something secretaries and clerical staff to talk to.  Their experience of these things is skewed.  

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Well I will be changing one of the fleet. The 4.2 Range Rover LSE will hopefully be going at the start of next month.Some of the money from that sale might go to something else but I don't think it will be another V8.

I've made a start on the weldathon of the Discovery and that is running on 60/40 veg oil diesel. The two petrol engined cars both do mid 30's mpg so no hardship there. I do have a diesel Peugeot 306 that has been sat for years . Might have a crack at getting that going and run it on black "diesel" if fuel costs go silly.

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Well they’re enjoying a bit of a windfall with the VAT on fuel at the moment.
A year ago, they were making £0.20 in VAT on every litre of diesel sold.  Now they’re making £0.28.  
Thats £4 extra in VAT on a typical 50 litre tank of fuel. 



That's only on non VAT registered entities which wont come anywhere close to to pay back what COVID has cost them which is why they had the sensational idea of increasing national insurance by 10%. As an accountant I've seen this government consistently make tax breaks for the super wealthy and increase tax for the average joe. Its sickening. I'm getting side tracked again by just how awful this government has dealt with literally everything.
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WRX averages 25mpg but I’ll keep it until it’s a pile of dust ( probably not very long).

Lovely  drive down the  A7 today, absolutely deserted for over 30 miles. I’ll gladly pay £2 a litre if that’s the effect it has!

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