A40 and other family cars - Freelander grot busting

[comfortablynumb]

3 hours ago, Rustybullethole said:

TC is most definitely Top Cat. 

Showing  our ages there.....🙄

[High Jetter]

I reckon a good number on here know or knew all the words to the theme.

IIRC  SC was never on a badge, only TC to show superiority. They certainly went better, when the carbs were balanced just right.

[Jenson Velcro]

Rover also used the SC/TC naming with the P6.

[adw1977]

1 hour ago, Jenson Velcro said:

Rover also used the SC/TC naming with the P6.

And they did actually use SC badges.

[EyesWeldedShut]

On 12/12/2025 at 21:08, Matty said:

Just what i know the triumph 4 pot refered to as. Not sure what it means. It may be a referance to Standard as im pretty sure it was their design.

Spot on - 'SC' was the Standard engine that went on to live much longer than anybody back in the 1940s would have thought.
My dad's second car was a 1974 Toledo with the 1300 (single carb'd) SC engine - I spent years thinking that's what SC meant there.........

[artdjones]

23 hours ago, captain_70s said:

"Small Car", according to Wikipedia. "Stupendously Crap" according to me.

It's ok up to 1300cc, rather like the A Series. But taking it out to 1500 was a bridge to far as it's very prone to getting a rumbly crank.

That's a very bad pic of MCO307R, that I owned from 1988-90, then replaced with a brown 1850HL.

[Matty]

10 minutes ago, artdjones said:

It's ok up to 1300cc, rather like the A Series. But taking it out to 1500 was a bridge to far as it's very prone to getting a rumbly crank.

That's a very bad pic of MCO307R, that I owned from 1988-90, then replaced with a brown 1850HL.

That was my opinion too. Like my Uncle said though, its getting a refresh anyway and who thrashes them these days? The 1310 A series in mine has a  fully balanced bottom end and a mild fast road cam. But ive still a 4500 rpm limit in my head. Cos owt else feels unkind. With the 1500 he can lean on the torque and end of the day torque is the only figure that matters.

Out of interest what did you make of the 1850 slant? My best mate is in the market for an old car and really fancies a Toledo or Dolly. Hes looking at1300s or 1500s whereas imo if he could find an 1850 thatd be quite the car.

[artdjones]

36 minutes ago, Matty said:

That was my opinion too. Like my Uncle said though, its getting a refresh anyway and who thrashes them these days? The 1310 A series in mine has a  fully balanced bottom end and a mild fast road cam. But ive still a 4500 rpm limit in my head. Cos owt else feels unkind. With the 1500 he can lean on the torque and end of the day torque is the only figure that matters.

Out of interest what did you make of the 1850 slant? My best mate is in the market for an old car and really fancies a Toledo or Dolly. Hes looking at1300s or 1500s whereas imo if he could find an 1850 thatd be quite the car.

I liked it. A fellow owner of an 1850 once described it to me as having " a lovely big-car tick." It was just as economical as the 1500 in everyday use, and better on a long run, around 38mpg, as it had overdrive. They did have some problems, as the cylinder head had a row of conventional bolts on one side, but was held on by slanted studs on the other, with nuts to do the actual clamping. That meant that you couldn't just undo the fixings and lift the head off. The studs had to be removed as well, and they tended to corrode into the head. Even when extractable, they needed a special tool slipped over the top so a socket could be used. I had no problems, because mine was in excellent mechanical fettle, but it's something to think about. The water pump was unusual as well, being let into the head, needing a special tool to remove it. 

It's basically half a Stag engine, but most of the Stag's problems are well understood, now. Certainly a step up from a 1500 Dolomite.

[High Jetter]

2 hours ago, adw1977 said:

And they did actually use SC badges.

Rover did, but why? To promote the 2.2?  V8 bonnet tho

[adw1977]

After the 1970 facelift all P6 models used the V8 bonnet.

The illustration is from a 1974 brochure.

19 hours ago, artdjones said:

A fellow owner of an 1850 once described it to me as having " a lovely big-car tick." It was just as economical as the 1500 in everyday use, and better on a long run, around 38mpg, as it had overdrive.

Overdrive was an optional extra on both 1500 and 1850 Dolomites.

Fuel consumption on the urban measure (probably the most realistic) was significantly better in the 1850 than the 1500, whether overdrive was specified or not.  Which does make the 1500HL model seem rather pointless, the range being 1300, 1500, 1500HL, 1850HL, Sprint.

[artdjones]

3 minutes ago, adw1977 said:

After the 1970 facelift all P6 models used the V8 bonnet.

Overdrive was an optional extra on both 1500 and 1850 Dolomites.

Fuel consumption on the urban measure (probably the most realistic) was significantly better in the 1850 than the 1500, whether overdrive was specified or not.  Which does make the 1500HL model seem rather pointless, the range being 1300, 1500, 1500HL, 1850HL, Sprint.

Interesting, though I'd be surprised if an auto 1500 was nearly 3mpg better than a manual, in real urban use.

[captain_70s]

23 hours ago, Matty said:

That was my opinion too. Like my Uncle said though, its getting a refresh anyway and who thrashes them these days? The 1310 A series in mine has a  fully balanced bottom end and a mild fast road cam. But ive still a 4500 rpm limit in my head. Cos owt else feels unkind. With the 1500 he can lean on the torque and end of the day torque is the only figure that matters.

Out of interest what did you make of the 1850 slant? My best mate is in the market for an old car and really fancies a Toledo or Dolly. Hes looking at1300s or 1500s whereas imo if he could find an 1850 thatd be quite the car.

I've found the A Series to be a nicer engine than Triumphs effort with the SC.

The 1300 SC hides all it's oomph high in the rev range, where it sounds like it is about to disintegrate at high speed in an eruption of valve springs. The 1275 A series is gruntier low down and feels a bit more balanced.

The 1500 likes to munch crankshafts at higher rpms especially in the Dolomite with the heavier saloon body. 1960s gear ratios generally mean 60mph is the end of the world without an overdrive. If budget allows I'd always go for an 1850... I do sometimes wonder if I kept the wrong car in my poverty stricken 1300!

I rate the slant-4, a nice torquey engine which doesn't feel like it needs to be thrashed to keep up with modern traffic which opens up at higher rpm as well. 90bhp is plenty in a light car like a Dolomite and mine got the same mpg in normal use (35mpg) than the 1300, even without an overdrive.

Of course it has well known flaws. A fussy water pump that's a pain to fit and an alloy head, prone to warping, that corrodes to it's studs. It used to be common practice to simply find another engine if your head studs snapped, but they used to be cheaper 20 years ago!

You don't really hear about them eating bottom ends like the 1300/1500 cars, but if you get a decent example and chuck a new set of bearings at an SC every 30,000 miles it'll last forever and is compartively trouble-free in terms of rebuild complexity with none of this modern nonsense like a overhead cam or alloy heads!

[Matty]

6 minutes ago, captain_70s said:

I've found the A Series to be a nicer engine than Triumphs effort with the SC.

The 1300 SC hides all it's oomph high in the rev range, where it sounds like it is about to disintegrate at high speed in an eruption of valve springs. The 1275 A series is gruntier low down and feels a bit more balanced.

The 1500 likes to munch crankshafts at higher rpms especially in the Dolomite with the heavier saloon body. 1960s gear ratios generally mean 60mph is the end of the world without an overdrive. If budget allows I'd always go for an 1850... I do sometimes wonder if I kept the wrong car in my poverty stricken 1300!

I rate the slant-4, a nice torquey engine which doesn't feel like it needs to be thrashed to keep up with modern traffic which opens up at higher rpm as well. 90bhp is plenty in a light car like a Dolomite and mine got the same mpg in normal use (35mpg) than the 1300, even without an overdrive.

Of course it has well known flaws. A fussy water pump that's a pain to fit and an alloy head, prone to warping, that corrodes to it's studs. It used to be common practice to simply find another engine if your head studs snapped, but they used to be cheaper 20 years ago!

You don't really hear about them eating bottom ends like the 1300/1500 cars, but if you get a decent example and chuck a new set of bearings at an SC every 30,000 miles it'll last forever and is compartively trouble-free in terms of rebuild complexity with none of this modern nonsense like a overhead cam or alloy heads!

Now comparing the 1300 in the Spitfire (albeit the one with the much fabled small journaled crank) and my 1310 a series, the triumph engine is as smooth as silk. Wheras the A is a coarse unruly shouty fucker. But it is an absolute mine of torque and feels pretty unburstable.

I suppose they all have their flaws. What impresses me about both cars (in fairness mines quite modified whilst the Spit is bone standard) is how effortless they are to use in day to day traffic. 

[captain_70s]

My small crank journal engine was definitely smoother than the large journal one I'm running now. One of these days I'll need to get it fixed...

I suspect the SC is much better suited to a Spitty than a saloon car. Having said that if you can get used to using all of the avaliable rpms and cruising at 4,000rpm it isn't a bad unit. It just feels like a small car engine in a small car, the slant 4 feels like a big car engine in a small car!

[MorrisItalSLX]

7 hours ago, adw1977 said:

I didn’t realise you could buy an automatic Sprint, I’ll have to add that to my dream garage list.

[Matty]

Attempted to buy this this week.

https://ebay.us/m/KwmPeG

Couldnt raise the extra £41000 so might as well cart on with mine.

Not much to do this winter for once. I could hear the prop gently clink clanking taking up drive toward the end of the year. So ordered 2 universal joints and dropped the prop off over xmas.

To the workshop Batman!

Nice, new and greasy.

Lovely stuff.

at this point it went tits as id managed to procure one greasable joint and one sealed. So it went on the back burner for a few days. Back on the car now and no clink clank. Which was nice.

Rolled around on the floor today on the ice to drop gearbox oil. Little bit of plug glitter but nowt frightening. Put a new anti rattle kit in the turret while i was about it. Took it for a quick run and....the cunt still rattles. Just a bit less. Ah well.

Tell you what though, stood since beggining of november in the freezing cold. Handfull of choke and a couple of seconds of churn and its straight into action. Brilliant engines.

Ta all.

[comfortablynumb]

Liked for the starting, not the continued rattling 😕

[Matty]

6 hours ago, comfortablynumb said:

Liked for the starting, not the continued rattling 😕

Ta. At least the prop is mended. My continuing gearbox woes are nothing new! It works beautifully though 😀

[Matty]

Uncle isnt driving at the moment due to a medical incident which is causing us all a bit of worry. Being a nice day i had a good run out in the Fiesta over the moors and called in at thiers for a brew.

When i arrived he wanted a favour. He wanted me to drive the Standard Ten!!

Obvs i have a somewhat comparable car but its no where near factory standard. So this is the first time ive ever driven a boggo 50s or 60s car if you dont count the Spitfire.

And... it was absolutely lovely! Obviously dog slow, especially when youve driven there in a 150 brake Fiesta. Yet it felt lively enough. Mega smooth, mega comfy, steers well, rides well, stops...... well eventually 🤣

Then it promptly broke down. We stopped to look at a customers S Type (60s) that needs a clutch. Returning to the Standard it just churned but refused to catch. Sparks were there but no dice. In desperation we pushed the little fucker and it fired straight up. And then drove home like nothing happened. Carburation is suspect. Still a lovely experience though and really opened my eyes as to how usable 50s and 60s porridge still is in the modern world. Impressed.

 

[High Jetter]

More practicable, than porridge. Maybe weak starter or battery rather than carb?

[comfortablynumb]

Had this with cortinas, they sometimes seem to be able to crank, or spark, but not both at the same time. If it's still on a dynamo, maybe you didn't do enough distance replenish the battery?

If it's been sat for a while, maybe waking it up gave it the hump!

Having said that, my mfi MK3 escort has exactly the same issue, but I'm buggered if I'm pushing that, the barn is at the bottom of a slope 🙄

Agree with the driving experience tho, I did 170 miles in a 105E Anglia, car was modified, but the seats weren't, one of the most comfortable places to sit.

[Matty]

Food for thought. Thanks both 👍

[N Dentressangle]

15 hours ago, Matty said:

Then it promptly broke down. We stopped to look at a customers S Type (60s) that needs a clutch. Returning to the Standard it just churned but refused to catch. Sparks were there but no dice. In desperation we pushed the little fucker and it fired straight up. And then drove home like nothing happened. Carburation is suspect.

Yep, it's a how long is string question on old cars, innit? Stuck needle valve is possible I guess, as well as all the ignition stuff. 

[Matty]

1 hour ago, N Dentressangle said:

Yep, it's a how long is string question on old cars, innit? Stuck needle valve is possible I guess, as well as all the ignition stuff. 

I mean as long as it drives to the unit when time comes, itll be coming out with a differant engine and box in it. Im sure he will sort this before though.

[Matty]

7 hours ago, comfortablynumb said:

Having said that, my mfi MK3 escort has exactly the same issue, but I'm buggered if I'm pushing that, the barn is at the bottom of a slope 🙄

Just a defeatist attitude is that. Move the barn to the top of the slope M9. Problem solved.

[comfortablynumb]

14 minutes ago, Matty said:

with a differant engine and box in it

Big block Chevy?? 😁

[Matty]

6 minutes ago, comfortablynumb said:

Big block Chevy?? 😁

Just a spit/midget1500. Nothing too exotic.

[chadders]

2 minutes ago, Matty said:

Just a spit/midget1500. Nothing too exotic.

That makes sense to me.

Every so often I consider getting a Rover V8 put in my MGB and then decide it would remove some of the charm(?) of driving it.

[Matty]

17 minutes ago, chadders said:

That makes sense to me.

Every so often I consider getting a Rover V8 put in my MGB and then decide it would remove some of the charm(?) of driving it.

Theres so much you can do with a B series as well! And im not sure which even sounds better. A B series does make a lovely row.

[chadders]

30 minutes ago, Matty said:

Theres so much you can do with a B series as well! And im not sure which even sounds better. A B series does make a lovely row.

I nearly had it bored out to 1950cc with Twin Cam pistons, 1 and 3/4" SU s and all the rest of the works.

Then the lads came along and that was it for 25 years or so and now there's weddings and flats to pay for. I should have studied Latin, not an option at Comp though, and then I'd have heard of Carpe Diem