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Writing on the wall for some manufacturers?


Timewaster

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3 hours ago, 1duck said:

So that leaves the fiesta, small town car better served by a fiat/Toyota/french brands.

Driving instructors and the yoofs around here seem to prefer a Fiesta over the Corsa and the equivalents. I learned to drive in a Mk7(?) Fiesta and it was a great car to learn in.

Just food for thought.

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1 minute ago, AnnoyingPentium said:

Driving instructors and the yoofs around here seem to prefer a Fiesta over the Corsa and the equivalents. I learned to drive in a Mk7(?) Fiesta and it was a great car to learn in.

Just food for thought.

I can't remember the last time I saw a new ford fiesta, everyone here seems to be in corsas and the driving schools pick random stuff like a1 Audi's to try seem better quality than the other schools.

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1 minute ago, 1duck said:

I can't remember the last time I saw a new ford fiesta, everyone here seems to be in corsas and the driving schools pick random stuff like a1 Audi's to try seem better quality than the other schools.

Any Corsas I keep seeing here are pre-2015ish. I even see a Y-reg one on the school run in that hideous metallic pinkish colour.

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16 minutes ago, 1duck said:

Is it bad that you say pink and Corsa all I can think of is the first ones fading from that vauxhall red that always seemed to go pink?

No, not at all. I still see 50 shades of pink Astras on the daily. It's this colour though:

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After some snooping on (shudders) the Corsa C forums, I can confirm it's City Red. Allegedly. Will consult my brochure later.

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It would seem strange for Ford to desert the UK market after being the top seller for as long as anyone can remember.  They might not sell as well as they did but still seem to have a strong fan base amongst people who want a car that drives well (and presumably can weld).  The local AA driving instructor has a Puma (new one unfortunately).

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2 hours ago, catsinthewelder said:

It would seem strange for Ford to desert the UK market after being the top seller for as long as anyone can remember.  They might not sell as well as they did but still seem to have a strong fan base amongst people who want a car that drives well (and presumably can weld).  The local AA driving instructor has a Puma (new one unfortunately).

There is the added pain/cost of Ford selling in Europe that they need to have design/build/sell a RHD version for a relatively small market - obs the Japanese, Neplese, Botswanians and Indian use RHD but going for a mass car market in Europe LHD would be a better choice.

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We miss out in the UK by driving on the left. 

We should have changed over years ago like Sweden did. (but I'm sure we were too pig headed, we won'the bloody war, its Johnny foreigner who does it wrong!) 

Then we could pick and choose from cars from almost anywhere, we wouldn't have suffered clumsy conversions resulting in cars with crap brakes or other compromises. 

The more complex cars get, the harder it must be to make a model in either left or right hand drive. Designing crash structures, mechanical packaging and repositioning electronic systems must be a bloody nightmare and cost manufacturers billions. 

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On 1/26/2022 at 9:03 PM, grogee said:

Alternative views are available:

The Jazz customer base is getting larger, at least in the UK, USA and Japan where the population is trending towards older people. My stepmum's had three and is certain to have another as they gave her a bunch of flowers with her most recent one. It's the little things and all that. 

Civic spaceship was a backwards move compared to the predecessor which was genuinely innovative without being flashy. Spaceship one pissed off the customers with its split rear screen and bonkers instruments. And it was demonstrably less reliable. 

I don't know enough about the E sales to comment, but it looks nice.

EVs may not be a panacea for motoring's sins, but at least the infrastructure is already there.

Hydrogen isn't happening, it's always "ten years away". As Honda keeps proving!

Synthetic petrol won't burn clean enough for future requirements, CO and NOx are unavoidable with ICE engines unfortunately.

I’ve been stewing on this for a while now . What was innovative on the pre spaceship civic ? Bearing  in mind I worked at a Honda garage 2000-2007 I really can’t thing of anything apart from the IRS .

Bloody good , competent reliable cars tho .

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16 hours ago, twosmoke300 said:

I’ve been stewing on this for a while now . What was innovative on the pre spaceship civic ? Bearing  in mind I worked at a Honda garage 2000-2007 I really can’t thing of anything apart from the IRS .

Bloody good , competent reliable cars tho .

Packaging mostly. Loads of rear seat space. Did they have those clever fold up rear seat bases?

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5 minutes ago, grogee said:

Packaging mostly. Loads of rear seat space. Did they have those clever fold up rear seat bases?

No, the spaceship ditched the IRS so it could have the magic seats (fold up rear seats) and a lower boot floor. Spaceship Civic had far more useful interior space than the previous gen.

It didn't even have cruise control for an option. No good for a company car. Diesel was an Isuzu unit shoehorned in and was tightly packed into the engine bay. They only fitted it after missing the boat on the rush to diesels and hurting their sales - especially (at the time) in that crucial company car market. 

About the only innovative thing apart from IRS was the dash controls with the gearstick near the hand and the heating controls near the driver. But other manufacturers did the same previously.

(I've owned both and know both pretty well)

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On 1/28/2022 at 10:34 PM, Dave_Q said:

RE the general thread title, most badges will probably survive but there will be more and more shared engines/platforms etc. 

We'll probably end up with a maximum of 2 or 3 basic designs in each segment which you can have with lots of different badges and slightly different panels.

On the topic of hydrogen, my company are working on IC hydrogen engines: https://www.cummins.com/news/releases/2021/07/13/cummins-begins-testing-hydrogen-fueled-internal-combustion-engine

Dunno the details or if it would ever be an option for upfitting existing engines but it's interesting, Lots of people backing the hydrogen horse.

Do we just go mental on renewables and always use the excess to make hydrogen from water? Don't care how inefficient it is if the energy input is free/green?

I spoke to a person I know who works for Mott McDonald, an engineering firm who assess big projects (including renewables) for banks to see what the risk is. He said that there are at least a few potential projects operating on that principle. The options being, capture the energy and store it inefficiently, or dont capture it at all. Wind farm companies are all over this because for every second its windy and they arent capturing it, they lose money, and they can't be doing with that.

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@Dave_Q That is facinating about Cummins testing Hydrogen IC engines. I saw JCB were also interested in that, is it exclusively for heavy plant stuff or can it be shrunk down into a car size application? I'm amazed that the mechanical losses you get in an IC engine don't prohibit using Hydrogen as a fuel considering it's energy density.

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21 hours ago, Timewaster said:

We miss out in the UK by driving on the left. 

We should have changed over years ago like Sweden did. (but I'm sure we were too pig headed, we won'the bloody war, its Johnny foreigner who does it wrong!) 

Then we could pick and choose from cars from almost anywhere, we wouldn't have suffered clumsy conversions resulting in cars with crap brakes or other compromises. 

The more complex cars get, the harder it must be to make a model in either left or right hand drive. Designing crash structures, mechanical packaging and repositioning electronic systems must be a bloody nightmare and cost manufacturers billions. 

I for one are glad we do, liking Japanese cars there's so many delicious looking cars from Japan and have the steering wheel on the right whereas nothing from Europe or the US floats my boat

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44 minutes ago, Toe said:

I for one are glad we do, liking Japanese cars there's so many delicious looking cars from Japan and have the steering wheel on the right whereas nothing from Europe or the US floats my boat

Yes but you can only get JDM cars by special import. Most U.K. Jap cars are Euro or US spec or closer to it than JDM.

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4 minutes ago, Metal Guru said:

Yes but you can only get JDM cars by special import. Most U.K. Jap cars are Euro or US spec or closer to it than JDM.

Oh of course you're dead right, what I was getting at is that with the steering wheel on the right to begin with is half the battle won even with having to import from half way round the world. In my cases too there isn't much difference between UK and Japanese variants although admittedly we're going back 20-30 years 

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6 hours ago, SiC said:

No, the spaceship ditched the IRS so it could have the magic seats (fold up rear seats) and a lower boot floor. Spaceship Civic had far more useful interior space than the previous gen.

It didn't even have cruise control for an option. No good for a company car. Diesel was an Isuzu unit shoehorned in and was tightly packed into the engine bay. They only fitted it after missing the boat on the rush to diesels and hurting their sales - especially (at the time) in that crucial company car market. 

About the only innovative thing apart from IRS was the dash controls with the gearstick near the hand and the heating controls near the driver. But other manufacturers did the same previously.

(I've owned both and know both pretty well)

Type S had cruise ! That was the only one tho .

@grogee spaceship was 55 plate to about 2010/11 . 

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On 1/29/2022 at 6:18 AM, 1duck said:

I honestly think ford, the Mondeo man now buy German because why would you want a ford? So that leaves the fiesta, small town car better served by a fiat/Toyota/french brands. Then what else is in their range? The focus? It was decent when it first came out, but you'd just buy a golf/Leon/a3.

Shy of something actually new coming from them I think they'll retreat back to America and their native market of pick up trucks etc, although I've heard the new f250 gets absolutely slammed as crap, but it is a ford so par for the course really. If America didn't protect its domestic truck market I think ford would be in serious trouble altogether.

 

I’m probably the archetypal ‘Mondeo Man’. Hell would freeze over before I’d be seen in a Golf/Leon/A3, it’s the chariot of choice for those driven by the Columbian marching powder. I’ll just move to a Focus/Kuga which are pretty much the same size in any case.

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On 1/29/2022 at 6:18 AM, 1duck said:

I honestly think ford, the Mondeo man now buy German because why would you want a ford? So that leaves the fiesta, small town car better served by a fiat/Toyota/french brands. Then what else is in their range? The focus? It was decent when it first came out, but you'd just buy a golf/Leon/a3.

Shy of something actually new coming from them I think they'll retreat back to America and their native market of pick up trucks etc, although I've heard the new f250 gets absolutely slammed as crap, but it is a ford so par for the course really. If America didn't protect its domestic truck market I think ford would be in serious trouble altogether.

 

The ford f150 lightning, and the ranger look like they'll keep ford at no1 in the US for a good few years.  The tech from those will filter down I think, so there might just be another Sierra/ mk1 Focus moment coming..

Last Friday, Ford Chief Operating Officer Lisa Drake held a conference call with members of Goldman Sachs, where she detailed that the all-electric F-150 Lightning, the electric version of the United States’ best-selling pickup truck, was nearing 200,000 reservations ahead of initial production, which is scheduled for Spring 2022.

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7 hours ago, Poweredbyhopealone said:

@Dave_Q That is facinating about Cummins testing Hydrogen IC engines. I saw JCB were also interested in that, is it exclusively for heavy plant stuff or can it be shrunk down into a car size application? I'm amazed that the mechanical losses you get in an IC engine don't prohibit using Hydrogen as a fuel considering it's energy density.

We only do commercial vehicles, afraid I am not involved in it, just know about it from the press release.

It's likely to be something in the 6-10L space they are testing, maybe a 6.7 B series. 

If I had to guess I would say they are trying to change as little as possible from the base diesel engine so in theory it could be applied to car size diesel engines? Maybe someone who knows more about combustion and shit than I do can say what volume of hydrogen storage you need to match the same distance worth of petrol, maybe it's more viable for big things on that basis. (Energy density as you mention)

Here is some more guff about what they are doing in hydrogen: https://www.cummins.com/news/2020/11/16/cummins-seizes-day-lead-hydrogen-technology

Note that a cynic might say it's still too early to decide which of these "New Power" technologies will be viable and widely accepted and there is potentially a mix here of genuinely believing in them and trying to convince the stock market the company has a future beyond the diesel engine.

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7 hours ago, Poweredbyhopealone said:

I spoke to a person I know who works for Mott McDonald, an engineering firm who assess big projects (including renewables) for banks to see what the risk is. He said that there are at least a few potential projects operating on that principle. The options being, capture the energy and store it inefficiently, or dont capture it at all. Wind farm companies are all over this because for every second its windy and they arent capturing it, they lose money, and they can't be doing with that.

Where do you get your data, could you give the sources?

 Hydrogen in a storage tank with no leaks tends to be an efficient way of storage.

Using solar energy to heat something then store in Dewer Flask thing as in the Morocco scheme below is more efficient the most Solar PV stuff as SolarPV max about 15% efficient re conversion of solar radiation to electric (it only uses part of the spectrum) but solar energy as heat is a lot higher then 15% so capturing the energy and storing it works.

My reading of the Govt stuff gives wind farms (UKbits) generally a contract where all the power produced is paid even if it gets wasted so they don't lose money.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouarzazate_Solar_Power_Station

 

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On 1/29/2022 at 3:45 PM, Timewaster said:

We should have changed over years ago like Sweden did. (but I'm sure we were too pig headed, we won'the bloody war, its Johnny foreigner who does it wrong!)

The thing you have to remember when comparing with Sweden was that at the time they changed over from driving on the left to driving on the right, there were about 12 cars in the entire country.  If we'd wanted to do the same thing here with the same mininal disruption we would have had to do it in about 1913, and I doubt it was on anyone's radar back then.

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