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Will the current climate affect your next purchase?


Bren
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Will the high cost of a gallon and concerns about the environment affect your next choice of car?

I will move my 545 on next year - by then it will be 18 years old. I have to run it on super now which means either looking for a shell or tesco - not good.

I really wanted another bent eight - maybe a mustang ( used) or something similar but the cost of fuel tax and astronomical secondhand prices mean the likelihood of another V8 is diminishing.

I am not fussy at the thought of a diesel as I can see a time when they will not be allowed in town and city centres. Plus a used diesel has a potential to be a PITA.

I am not prepared to spend hundreds a month on an EV just to ease my conscience.

For the first time in my car buying history I am non plussed at the thought of replacing my car - it is as if all the fun has been taken out of owning a car.

I prefer something a bit old  but nice - to me a car is an experience and not like buying white goods. If I am going in hock for a motor it needs to be a nice experience rather thsn how many cup holders it has.

Discuss.

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4 minutes ago, Bren said:

I really wanted another bent eight - maybe a mustang ( used) or something similar but the cost of fuel tax and astronomical secondhand prices mean the likelihood of another V8 is diminishing.

Are you sure about that? ;)

 

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If you can afford the road tax, which will likely be around £500 a year, something late noughties with a large petrol engine? Jaguar XF 3.0? BMW 325? What petrol engines did the Bangle era 5 series come with? 

Almost anything petrol post 2006 can be used in a ULEZ.  But after about 2011-12 many manufacturers stopped selling anything with a petrol engine larger than 2 litres in the U.K.  market, so there’s a sweet spot of about 5 years duration to choose from. 

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I won't be changing my Volvo T5 anytime soon, but I do low miles and pretty much only long trips in it. At the moment I wouldn't buy an electric car as most just don't do what I need and that is a trip of about 350 miles without needing to be charged up. Also buying one would not ease my conscience as I'm really not convinced they are very environmentally friendly on the lifetime carbon footprint https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/analysis-polestar-lifts-lid-lifetime-ev-emissions

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A monaro was on my bucket list. Sadly prices are through the roof plus it is probably not the best for a daily. A bit old - the oldest will be nearly 18 years old.

A jaguar XFR is a fair lump of car with a supercharged V8 - a few months ago there were some for £11-13 k but not now.

I had looked at merc E class - the four pot is a bit meh in a car that size - the 3.0 TD is much better but it's diesel. What I will say is that mercs look so sharp compared to audi's and BMW's.

My BMW cost me just over £1k for the valve stem seals - this included up timing cover gaskets, rocker gaskets and an oil and filter change. I am certain if I had bought a 535d I would have spent more having faults eliminated - which it why I chose petrol.

Even big engined cars seem to be shifting - maybe covid has people thinking " fuck it I could be dead tomorrow".

You might but the likelihood is you won't.

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21 minutes ago, FakeConcern said:

Also buying one would not ease my conscience as I'm really not convinced they are very environmentally friendly on the lifetime carbon footprint

Nail on the head. I say it’s better for the planet to keep plodding on with an old Volvo than it is to get PCP on some plastic and lithium stuffed electric apparition that’ll probably be in landfill in eight years. 

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1 hour ago, Bren said:

 

 it is as if all the fun has been taken out of owning a car.

 

Nail on head there. 
 

it’s as if all this e10 and fuel price hike is a way of them nudging people away from older cars. Yet they don’t understand that not everyone can afford a new EV, or even want one. Silly ridiculous times. 

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Running the Pug diesel for work but seriously looking at a Toyota hybrid to replace it at some point mainly as I do a lot of local work and could run electric a lot of the time so would cost a lot less and as the diesel does not really like constant short runs. It will probably be a few years before I go full EV though although I am seriously thinking of buying a landcrab to put away and go full EV with once the batteries and running gear become more readily available.

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Bit of both here.

We're looking at (probably) moving to one daily and that will likely be a new electric for tax reasons, via my wife's work and salary sacrifice.  However I'll be keeping the Cougar and still have an eye on an older petrol.  There's some cars / engines I just want to have owned, such as the Fozzie turbo, and these will hopefully happen regardless.

Actually we're not moving to one daily at all are we, we'll be moving to one long term daily and hopefully lots of short term petrol goodness for me. Diesel can get in the bin, fuck that.

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Been thinking about this myself, of which is always a bit of a battle.

For once I actually wouldn't mind a 'modern' daily, that you bang into drive, waft about in and does reasonable MPG (something like a 2014 E class estate), but I can't afford it and don't want to get into debt to do so. Saying that I could get similar comfort and waft from a OM606 E Class for a lot less ££, at potential detriment to the gods of rust.

With work going the way it is, I'll certainly be thinning the fleet. The 850 has more than paid for itself both in terms of purchase cost and carbon footprint shenanigans, seems to average 43 to 45mpg and do so in relative comfort... but its not a 'Clunk into drive and waft' kind of car.

E.V wouldn't work for me, on both a budget and lifestyle sense.

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9 hours ago, Bren said:

A monaro was on my bucket list. Sadly prices are through the roof

I was talking to a bloke at work, not really a car guy at all, he drives a pcp Kia. 

He asked me why I thought of 6 seies BMWs as he always wanted  one and thought very soon V8s would be banned or priced out of reach so it s now or never. 

I wonder if that is why Monaros are the price they are. 

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I’d love to see a Government policy that forces people to keep their cars for a minimum of 10 years or whatever. I firmly believe that protecting the environment is about reducing consumption.

But I accept that’s fantasy. Vehicle manufacturing and sales is such a huge part of our economy.

Plus, we do need people to buy electric cars now, to force the roll out of a better charging infrastructure.

Our next family wagon will be electric, but only once the current XC90 implodes or throws up a monumental bill.

I wouldn’t buy a brand new ICE daily now, because I’d always aim for a 5-10 year ownership cycle, and I’d worry about it becoming an expensive pain to run towards the end of that period.

But I am definitely up for running lots of old, classic or interesting AS fodder alongside the daily, in the meantime.

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9 hours ago, KitKat said:

Nail on the head. I say it’s better for the planet to keep plodding on with an old Volvo than it is to get PCP on some plastic and lithium stuffed electric apparition that’ll probably be in landfill in eight years. 

This is my view too

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I absolutely agree about keeping older cars running, but Mrs Sham has a need for an SUV for ease of access - and frankly older ones tend to be money pits and not particularly frugal.

I'm always erring on the sensible side. Current day to day family car is a 1.0 auto petrol Vitara that does almost exclusively short trips and rarely tops 50 miles per day, and never more that 150. It's also leased. Because of this, it's likely replacement next year will be electric.

 

My daily, is also our day out car - does the longer trips. So a 1.6 diesel Octavia is reasonable. Due to budget constraints, it's likely to be replaced like for like if it needs replacing - which seems doubtful for a while.

 

As for automotive playthings - greenliness doesn't figure in the occasionally used and occasionally purchased.

 

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3 minutes ago, Sham said:

As for automotive playthings - greenliness doesn't figure in the occasionally used and occasionally purchased.

Personally I completely concur, but I can see eventually some   ambiguous, sweeping, ICE coffin-nail legislation will oust classics off the roads along with all the other plastic, modern shite. I bet they won’t differentiate or exempt us; sadly the thought probably won’t even enter their heads. 

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The main issue for for me is wastefulness. Hence I own three vehicles, a 60 year old 4x4, a 23 year old bike and a 14 year old ‘modern’ which are perpetually repaired and put back in service. I also work from home because it suits me to do so and it saves on fuel costs/unnecessary journeys. I live in the countryside but usually walk or cycle short distances like up to three miles. 
 

I like the idea of Evs, the idea has been kicking around for hundreds of years, it was always the issue of onboard power storage which held it back. I do think a lot of current environmental policy is just fiddling around the edges though, in the scientific field it is generally accepted that we are reaching peak population worldwide, environmental and social factors will start to reduce our influence. Reduction of unnecessary waste and pollution are a good thing though. I dislike the hyperbole used to describe the current ‘climate emergency’ though the earth has withstood much more dramatic climatic events than it has at present.
 

I might consider an electric car for our family car which is currently a six year old petrol Gashqai. I’m just waiting to see how disposable they are. 

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I’m a bit shocked to look out on my drive and see that only 1 out of 8 is diesel, this is more to do with consciously avoiding  them for maintenance and cost reasons as any environmental concerns. 
And guess which of those 8  has got its EML on a the moment 

ML 3.0 d  now Boxster, 28 mpg to erm 28 mpg

406 d coupe now e90 330i auto 40 mpg to 25 mpg

Octavia 1.9 d now Panda 1.2 , 40 mpg to 40 mpg

Volvo C30 1.6 d now CRV 2.0 auto 45 mpg to 30 mpg

Mini Cooper d now Merc W210 E240  50 mpg to 20 mpg

The ML, Mini and C30 all had DPF and other issues that far outweighed any fuel savings if I added up what I’d spent on them , likewise my 220d has had to have the dpf cleaned out and the theory that it’s only low mileage and gentle use that causes these problems has very definitely been proved as bollocks .

We recently considered an Outlander PHEV as winter car for Mrs N, until a bit of research on range depletion and battery costs on the 5 or 6 year old examples  we were considering soon had me searching for 3.6 petrol Cayennes again. Maybe  I should MTFU and buy her a Supercharged Range Rover before it’s too late.

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I've been mostly working from home with the occasional 500 mile road trips for the past few years. A change in family circumstances mean the business is going to have to fold and I need a job.

I am genuinely not sure what to do with regards to transport to work. Do I get an econobox which is more or less what I have now? My 2008 Corsa is a really poor vehicle for fuel consumption. I think it is going to go and live on a farm soon, which is just as well because I don't like it at all. They spoiled the Corsa in the last couple of years, It's like mine has a thyroid problem. Fat little thing. I keep thinking about a little motorbike or scooter (300-750cc), and maybe a smaller econobox for shared with my other half for rainy day duties. There are so few modern cars that are fun. Fast, competent, boring. You might as well be sat in McDonalds.

I have to think about my camper, too. I am not sure a diesel is a good prospect long-term and I am a long-term owner. So maybe another old car too. That could be anything. I wouldn't mind another MGB GT. Watch this space.

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@warch..

"..I dislike the hyperbole used to describe the current ‘climate emergency’ though the earth has withstood much more dramatic climatic events than it has at present.."

I think the main focus of concern is WE weren't around during such 'phases'..... 🤔

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12 hours ago, KitKat said:

Nail on the head. I say it’s better for the planet to keep plodding on with an old Volvo than it is to get PCP on some plastic and lithium stuffed electric apparition that’ll probably be in landfill in eight years. 

Indeed, my daily is an 18 year old Volvo S60 D5 which owes me nothing after 8 years of trouble free motoring and I’m sure it will continue to do so for many years to come as it’s only on 165,000 miles, it recently went straight through it’s MOT with no issues or advisories. 
The wife’s 14 year old Merc SLK and my weekend 20 year old CLK are also in very good order and I’m hoping I won’t have to buy another vehicle in my remaining years of motoring, as the most of a vehicles ‘carbon footprint’ is in the initial manufacturing process, of which Volvo have just ironically conceded is worse for their current EV range compared with ICE models, it’s the sensible choice to keep older vehicles on the road.

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Yes, I won't lie it's going to influence my next purchase or disposal. It's mainly down to the price of fuel really. It's stabilised somewhat in the last week but it's still bloody expensive. 

Paid 114.9 last year about this time and it's another 25p on top of it now realistically. 

Man math is making think it's time to switch to an oil burner. Though if I had the means to switch to electric, I would. I think the recycling of batteries will have to become better, necessity is driving it at this point. But any of the useful ones are north of 30k. 

Once EVs drop into the 20k bracket for ~200 mile range, I reckon a lot of people will start moving towards them. Enough range to be useful and cheap enough on finance. Looking forward to Renault and their new 5 ev. 

Then again, the cheapest car is the one you own isn't it? Unless it's a 12mpg Hemi V8 🤔

 

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i3s are great, delighted with ours as a commuter.  My Mrs wants another electric with much more range for longer journeys but I work from home mostly and we have a selection of shite, plus a modern diesel estate for the odd times we go further so it doesn't make much sense really.

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On 11/6/2021 at 9:50 PM, KitKat said:

Nail on the head. I say it’s better for the planet to keep plodding on with an old Volvo than it is to get PCP on some plastic and lithium stuffed electric apparition that’ll probably be in landfill in eight years. 

That's certainly the view I'm taking. After thirty years my 740 is still plodding along just fine and has surely outweighed whatever environmental damage was caused in its creation, not to mention that it ought to outlast most things if I can keep rust at bay. No plans to get anything else since nothing made this century is even remotely interesting or desirable.  Hopefully it'll do me until I either die, pack up driving or internal combustion vehicles get legislated off the road by some grandstanding hippy wank masquerading as concern for the environment (conveniently and coincidentally taxable, no doubt.) Owned one diesel many years ago, it was utter shit and I will never have another. Same goes for any electric crap, the greenest car is whatever lasts the longest in service. 

TL,DR: Fuck that. I refuse to be hit in the pocket as a result of someone else's delusion. 

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17 minutes ago, MrGTI6 said:

I suspect like many others on here, I would consider my carbon footprint to be lower than average. Whilst I tend to drive older cars that do a few less MPG than newer ones, they are over 20 years old and keeping them going is surely far better for the environment than contributing to the demand for the manufacture of yet another new car.

Let's be honest, if people really cared about the environment, they'd ditch their privately-owned cars and use public transport. 

The vast bulk of the lifetime "carbon footprint" of a car comes in terms of fuel both EV and ICE.  You can see this from research.  Yes, EVs have a higher initial carbon footprint, about twice, but once you start exceeding 100,000 miles, the EV (based on Natural Gas grid generation) starts to pull ahead of ICE cars.  When you start using renewables and nuclear for electricity production, the EV pulls ahead very early.

The EOL disposal is fractional compared to the actual fuel costs/generation over 100k miles.

What's in favor the EV is that

A. Natural Gas is about as clean as it gets for fossil fuels. Majority of UK generation is Gas.

B. It brings the polution out of urban areas. 

I don't think it's as simple as thinking that the BMW 528 is greener than a Leaf becuse it's 20 years old and already "exists".  It's a wee bit more complex than that but it's not hard to see how EVs can pull ahead if the power grid get's greener.

Big EU commission report of the matter

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2018/617457/IPOL_STU(2018)617457_EN.pdf

I'm sure there's more uptodate material and references but it's not a bad place to start.

 

I'd rather be honest with myself and say I can't have an EV becuse I can't just afford it right now rather than trying to ignore the "green" benefits. Or I rather Petrol engines. Or the range doesnt suit. Etc etc.

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