W210 Merc. The lowest point of Mercedes quality to date? Discuss.

[Erebus]

8 minutes ago, Nullzwei said:

Surprised no one has mentioned how quick the  straight six diesels are. The om613 in the 320cdi is a great engine. Massive torque and great fun to drive quickly.

Sadly my 02 s210 320cdi  is probably going to be scrapped soon as a mercedes only (read expensive) hydraulic pipe has burst after having spent £450+ in the last year on the bloody self levelling suspension. The estates are great cars but the rear suspension is their achilles heel, imho. 

That's a pisser. Couldn't somewhere like Pirtek make you up a pipe?

[Nullzwei]

1 minute ago, Erebus said:

That's a pisser. Couldn't somewhere like Pirtek make you up a pipe?

When i had 6 hydraulic pipes replaced at Staithes Garage, a Mercedes specialist in the NE, he joked that the only pipe left to replace was a Mercedes only one and that it was expensive.  About £300 quid to replace including the fluid. Along side the other things the car needs doing come MOT time it is probably getting too expensive to justify although this thread is making me think again.

 

 

 

[horriblemercedes]

I had a W163 ML270 CDI. The body panels rotted like mad. Underneath it showed very little sign of rust and my MOT tester agreed. It pretty much just worked, although it looked like hell.

I mention it because it had a lot in common with the W210 (mechanically). A couple of injector seals, a MAF sensor, a thermostat and that was about all it needed for years of use. I think that they probably survive a bit better than W210s because they have a separate chassis (which doesn't rust badly at all on them) so less of the rust is structural on a W163. One of the rear chassis mounts was starting to show surface rust but that was about all underneath mine at 160k and 17 years old. The wheel arches and doors were all going quite badly, despite my best efforts with periodical Kurust applications (admittedly, that did seem to add years to their lives)

[Shite Ron]

42 minutes ago, Nullzwei said:

When i had 6 hydraulic pipes replaced at Staithes Garage, a Mercedes specialist in the NE, he joked that the only pipe left to replace was a Mercedes only one and that it was expensive.  About £300 quid to replace including the fluid. Along side the other things the car needs doing come MOT time it is probably getting too expensive to justify although this thread is making me think again.

 

 

 

I always think that it is ‘better the devil you know’.  At least you know what has been done on your car rather than buying something unknown. 
I agree with you on how quick the 320 CDi is and how much fun to drive. Also for a diesel they sound very nice too. This is my first Mercedes and the first diesel I have bought out of choice. I have had several diesel work cars, mostly Mondeo’s and Alfa’s, all front wheel drive so nowhere near as nice as the Merc to drive.

When I first realised that a Mercedes was the answer to my needs I started looking at W211’s, then read Talbot’s thread and realised W210’s were better, I then started looking at W124’s which are much better looking and very nice with the right cloth interior (beige or red is great) and zebrano wood looks fantastic. But these also seem to rust and also command higher prices. 
I think the W210’s are great for the price, they are not fantastic looking but looks are not as challenging as a Scorpio or early Sierra. I love how they ride with Citroen rear suspension but the advantage of RWD, also the single front wiper is nice. Space inside is ample, towing capacity is great, turning circle is good, visibility great compared to modern rubbish and they do not feel big to drive or park,  it is immeasurably better in every way than the mk4 Mondeo I have had for the last 10 years. For a modern everyday car I cannot think of anything better especially when they are available for less than a grand.

[OM646]

Here the w210 is still considered one of the last old school bulletproof Mercs that rack up 600.000mi as a taxi.

 

Why that? Because Portugal, no rust. W210's last forever. Way more than my W203 it seems.

Other than the rot, those are still pure old school Merc

[Minimad5]

10 hours ago, 83C said:

The ex- @Minimad5 S210 I briefly had really opened my eyes as to how good a 210 can be. 

Cosmetics weren't perfect, but it drove so nicely. Everything about it was well thought out, and to be honest I do have some regrets about selling it - I really wouldn't be averse to owning another. 

I would say specification is important. A relative owns a very low mileage E240 estate with MB Tex interior and to be honest, it's grim. Silver/light grey everything, bland and boring. It's also very ripe. It uses more fuel than the 320, and feels less urgent than a 220. The better 210s are those with the bigger engines and better spec, which is one difference from a 124. I've had low-spec 124s and they've been great, but similar spec 210s don't feel as good. 

My green E320 was considerably less rotten than the newer E240 mentioned above, which does 500 miles a year and almost never touches the road during winter. Statistical anomaly maybe?

As for space - absolutely agree. It fits tall people very well, seat down and back, set steering wheel reach and rake, and there isn't a whole lot out there that'll be more comfortable. 

I think in time (and probably quite soon ) the W210s will be appreciated for what they are by a wider audience, and the good examples that are left will really climb in value. There will also be the buyers who miss the boat on the last cheap 124s and will then go looking at 210s instead. 

Not going to lie mate, one of the few cars I regret selling. I didn't see the need for having two estates at the time 🤦‍♂️. 

That whisper quiet M112, effortless drive and sheer wafty-ness made it a bloody brilliant car (that and the brilliant rear suspension which soaked up everything with ease)

[Talbot]

11 hours ago, Nullzwei said:

a mercedes only (read expensive) hydraulic pipe has burst after having spent £450+ in the last year on the bloody self levelling suspension. The estates are great cars but the rear suspension is their achilles heel, imho. 

The rear suspension on the estates is actually very simple.  Even more simple than a citroen system that this is based on.  The spheres are very long-lasting, and not even that expensive new.  Almost all the hydraulic pipework can be replicated by a specialist.  Most of the time the easiest thing to do (if possible) is to take them the old pipe, they'll then re-use the ends and put them on a new pipe.  In the vast majority of cases, that pipe can be kunifer/copper/cupronickel rather than the original steel too.

[Talbot]

10 hours ago, Shite Ron said:

I love how they ride with Citroen rear suspension but the advantage of RWD, also the single front wiper is nice. Space inside is ample, towing capacity is great, turning circle is good, visibility great compared to modern rubbish and they do not feel big to drive or park,  it is immeasurably better in every way than the mk4 Mondeo I have had for the last 10 years.

Funny you should mention that.  Between my saloon 210 and the estate ones, I briefly owned a Mk4 mondeo, and hated it.  There was nothing wrong with it, I just could not get on with it.  So I shoved it back at the dealer I bought it from (as it had a dangerous undisclosed fault), got my money back and went out and bought a S210 that was 9 years older than the mundaneo.  "Aaahhh, that's better" I thought, as I got into it.  Says it all really.

[Nullzwei]

26 minutes ago, Talbot said:

The rear suspension on the estates is actually very simple.  Even more simple than a citroen system that this is based on.  The spheres are very long-lasting, and not even that expensive new.  Almost all the hydraulic pipework can be replicated by a specialist.  Most of the time the easiest thing to do (if possible) is to take them the old pipe, they'll then re-use the ends and put them on a new pipe.  In the vast majority of cases, that pipe can be kunifer/copper/cupronickel rather than the original steel too.

The hydraulic pipe that has burst on mine is part number 20 on this diagram. A Mercedes only part according to my local MB specialist.  It lives under the near side plastic front wing liner so a well known rot spot on 210's. Luckily i replaced the near side front wing less than 2 years ago so it will be easy to take the wing off to investigate or keep the new wing when/if i have to scrap the car.

 

 

[Erebus]

I'd be very surprised if that couldn't be replicated by a hydraulic hose and pipe specialist like Pirtek or similar much more cheaply than the Merc part.  Gotta be worth a try.

[Nullzwei]

9 minutes ago, Erebus said:

I'd be very surprised if that couldn't be replicated by a hydraulic hose and pipe specialist like Pirtek or similar much more cheaply than the Merc part.  Gotta be worth a try.

Cheers for the tip. Might see if i can take the hose off and take it down to them to see what they can do.

[TheOtherStu]

Is the W211 that bad?
I need a car that will be doing a fair bit of mileage from MK to most Southern Hampshire a couple of times a week, but that has a cavernous boot.

I want something comfortable, preferably not French with plenty of parts support (which is why I've moved away from R75s)

They seem to be good value. I'd rather have something less than 15 years old.

Or should I stick to W204 C Classes?

 

I'm aware this conversation is moving away from shitters, as I'm looking to spend around £3k.

[Erebus]

28 minutes ago, Nullzwei said:

Cheers for the tip. Might see if i can take the hose off and take it down to them to see what they can do.

No probs.  A little independent one will probably be cheaper btw.  

[Talbot]

1 hour ago, Nullzwei said:

The hydraulic pipe that has burst on mine is part number 20 on this diagram.

There's options available.  Is it the steel section that has split?  If so, it will be absolutely possible to cut back to a good bit of the pipe, put a joiner on and the replicate the rest of the pipe.  You've got the threaded ends, so it's just a case of getting some pipe that is near-enough the correct diameter and shaping it to fit.  I have done this successfully in the past with compression fittings, steel tube from a stockist and a brake pipe flare too.

Either that, or there are people breaking 210s all over faceache, so I'm absolutely sure someone will be able to send you one. 

Or, if it's the flexible bit that has gone through, you just cut the hose and shove a joiner in it.  Did that as a bodge on one of my cars... which then lasted for about 30k miles until I scrapped the car for unrelated reasons.

[Nullzwei]

22 minutes ago, Talbot said:

There's options available.  Is it the steel section that has split?  If so, it will be absolutely possible to cut back to a good bit of the pipe, put a joiner on and the replicate the rest of the pipe.  You've got the threaded ends, so it's just a case of getting some pipe that is near-enough the correct diameter and shaping it to fit.  I have done this successfully in the past with compression fittings, steel tube from a stockist and a brake pipe flare too.

Either that, or there are people breaking 210s all over faceache, so I'm absolutely sure someone will be able to send you one. 

Or, if it's the flexible bit that has gone through, you just cut the hose and shove a joiner in it.  Did that as a bodge on one of my cars... which then lasted for about 30k miles until I scrapped the car for unrelated reasons.

Thanks for the top tips.

Not sure where the split is yet as i just parked the bugger up and left it after it dropped all its hydraulic fluid. Good work out trying to park with no power steering.  I have owned the car for just over 3 years and this is now the third time it has lost all its hydraulic fluid. 

Dont' suppose you have an ebay link to a 'joiner' if it is a break in the flexible pipe.

Thanks again. Just read your 210 thread - great stuff. My back box has broken at the same side mount on the near side. Currently held in place with a ratchet strap. 

 

[Talbot]

41 minutes ago, Nullzwei said:

Dont' suppose you have an ebay link to a 'joiner' if it is a break in the flexible pipe.

Anything like this will do:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/202135611474?hash=item2f1038a852:g:SnsAAOSwk5FUt6C0

There are dozens upon dozens of listings for things like this.  Brass, steel, Stainless, plastic etc.etc.  Huge choice, low price.  Use a couple of good quality jublee clips on each end of it and it'll last forever.

[Crackers]

15 hours ago, horriblemercedes said:

It pretty much just worked, although it looked like hell.

Username checks out. 

[Nullzwei]

1 hour ago, Talbot said:

Anything like this will do:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/202135611474?hash=item2f1038a852:g:SnsAAOSwk5FUt6C0

There are dozens upon dozens of listings for things like this.  Brass, steel, Stainless, plastic etc.etc.  Huge choice, low price.  Use a couple of good quality jublee clips on each end of it and it'll last forever.

Thanks again Talbot, much appreciated.

[Nullzwei]

3 hours ago, TheOtherStu said:

Is the W211 that bad?
I need a car that will be doing a fair bit of mileage from MK to most Southern Hampshire a couple of times a week, but that has a cavernous boot.

I want something comfortable, preferably not French with plenty of parts support (which is why I've moved away from R75s)

They seem to be good value. I'd rather have something less than 15 years old.

Or should I stick to W204 C Classes?

 

I'm aware this conversation is moving away from shitters, as I'm looking to spend around £3k.

The s211's have air rear suspension whereas  the s210 has hydraulic rear suspension. 211's also have sbc brakes which can be a ticking time bomb. The straight six diesel 211's (om648) would be my choice as no dpf unless factory ordered with one. The V6 w/s211 diesels (om642) have the dpf to contend with.

Most electrical gremlins on a w/s210 can be fixed by having a healthy battery or changing the brakes light switch which costs about £15. Not sure the same can be said for the more complex w/s211 which would probably need to be plugged into a STAR diagnostic machine to discover the fault. Nice cars though still.

Personally if i was going for a w/s211 it would either be an om648 straight six 320cdi or a 5 litre V8 e500 model.

 

 

[Talbot]

16 hours ago, Nullzwei said:

Surprised no one has mentioned how quick the  straight six diesels are. The om613 in the 320cdi is a great engine. Massive torque and great fun to drive quickly.

The OM606 is not far behind the OM613 in standard form, and can be "tuned" (IE turned up somewhat) to some quite disturbing power outputs.

Thusly:

 

[TheOtherStu]

13 minutes ago, Nullzwei said:

The s211's have air rear suspension whereas  the s210 has hydraulic rear suspension. 211's also have sbc brakes which can be a ticking time bomb. The straight six diesel 211's (om648) would be my choice as no dpf unless factory ordered with one. The V6 w/s211 diesels (om642) have the dpf to contend with.

Most electrical gremlins on a w/s210 can be fixed by having a healthy battery or changing the brakes light switch which costs about £15. Not sure the same can be said for the more complex w/s211 which would probably need to be plugged into a STAR diagnostic machine to discover the fault. Nice cars though still.

Personally if i was going for a w/s211 it would either be an om648 straight six 320cdi or a 5 litre V8 e500 model.

 

 

Thank you. As much as I'd love the 5 litre v8 (or indeed, the 5.4L Kompressor) I think a dirty diesel is needed.
All my journeys are going to be ~150 mile round trips, so a DPF doesn't particularly concern me. I find that tends to bother people who drive 5 miles or less each way to work.

[Datsuncog]

This thread's just reminded me that my uncle put his W210 into storage quite some time ago... like back in 2008 or something. He actually garaged it this time, rather than just throwing an Argos cover over it and leaving it to rot on the drive, like he did with his Triumph 2500 and Ghia X Granada. Reckoned it was an investment.

Must make some enquiries. Last time I was speaking to him he still had his 405 XUD estate and E34 series 530i laid up, but he never mentioned the Merc...

[Vantman]

7 hours ago, TheOtherStu said:

Is the W211 that bad?
I need a car that will be doing a fair bit of mileage from MK to most Southern Hampshire a couple of times a week, but that has a cavernous boot.

I want something comfortable, preferably not French with plenty of parts support (which is why I've moved away from R75s)

They seem to be good value. I'd rather have something less than 15 years old.

Or should I stick to W204 C Classes?

 

I'm aware this conversation is moving away from shitters, as I'm looking to spend around £3k.

I run a W211 saloon,a 2008 facelift E220CDI auto and an OM646 with no DPF, i bought it as i am now too old to mess about keeping an old daily driver on the road. It's a one previous owner, comfortable and reliable and will do between 40-50 mpg without really trying. Buy one now!!

[OM646]

2 hours ago, Vantman said:

I run a W211 saloon,a 2008 facelift E220CDI auto and an OM646 with no DPF, i bought it as i am now too old to mess about keeping an old daily driver on the road. It's a one previous owner, comfortable and reliable and will do between 40-50 mpg without really trying. Buy one now!!

I should add: buy a facelifted one. Those have no SBC brakes, so it's one less problem

[TheOtherStu]

3 hours ago, Vantman said:

I run a W211 saloon,a 2008 facelift E220CDI auto and an OM646 with no DPF, i bought it as i am now too old to mess about keeping an old daily driver on the road. It's a one previous owner, comfortable and reliable and will do between 40-50 mpg without really trying. Buy one now!!

I'm going to look at a 2009 E220CDI Estate on Saturday; Wish me luck

It has the cleanest MOT history I think I've ever seen. 1 owner. Meticulously serviced. Failed once on a lightbulb. No advisories.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

26 minutes ago, TheOtherStu said:

I'm going to look at a 2009 E220CDI Estate on Saturday; Wish me luck

It has the cleanest MOT history I think I've ever seen. 1 owner. Meticulously serviced. Failed once on a lightbulb. No advisories.

That’s as close to a risk free purchase as you could find, I would have thought. The 2.1 is renowned for taking miles. If it’s been neglected the cam chain can need changing , this is obvious when you start it up and there’s a rattle for a few seconds, but as s one owner car that shouldn’t be a problem. I’ve had one with 260k miles that was still on its original chain, injectors even clutch and seen loads with over 300,000  on them wstill running perfectly. My current 2014 W212 is a 220 and is quick enough and regularly shows over 50 mpg as long as you don’t cruise under 3 figures. As much as I love the 3.0 V6 diesel , the 220 is the sensible choice.

[Schaefft]

On 10/19/2021 at 10:07 PM, Nullzwei said:

When i had 6 hydraulic pipes replaced at Staithes Garage, a Mercedes specialist in the NE, he joked that the only pipe left to replace was a Mercedes only one and that it was expensive.  About £300 quid to replace including the fluid. Along side the other things the car needs doing come MOT time it is probably getting too expensive to justify although this thread is making me think again.

 

 

 

Ah a local. Staithes Garage has worked on my W140 and recommended me to just get another one because of the work needed lol. I guess my and their standards are quite different, the guy I spoke to knows his stuff though.

[Nullzwei]

12 hours ago, Schaefft said:

Ah a local. Staithes Garage has worked on my W140 and recommended me to just get another one because of the work needed lol. I guess my and their standards are quite different, the guy I spoke to knows his stuff though.

No garages local to me at the coast would touch the leaky pipework on my s210. Said it was too complicated? Most of them assumed it was air suspension. Yep Phil at Staithes garage knows his stuff. He delighted in telling me the injectors on my 190,000 mile s210 had never been reseated. An oddity apparently. Lol.

[Pete-M]

I ran a 99 S210 320 CDi for about 2.5 years. Brilliant car, only let down by rust 

Far, far better to drive than a W124. I had a 260E for a few months about 15 years ago which also suffered quite badly from rust. Thing is, the W124 also suffered from fairly crap electrical components, the 210 didn't seem to be anywhere nearly as badly affected in that area.

All mid 90s Mercedes will rust if they're used during the winter, the steel used wasn't good and the rust proofing wasn't up to scratch.  Things were improved around 99 with the facelifted ones, but as my 320 was a facelifted one and still rusted I don't believe the problems were anywhere near well sorted enough.  The water base paint is regularly blamed for the rust issues but I don't know how true that is. 

The 210 rusted, but so did the 123 and 124. It was just that the 210 had that moisture trap on the front wings that made the rot noticeable early. 

Facelifted 210s really are great cars. 

A pal in Germany has an S210 240 avant-garde with zero rust and over 1m km on the clock. He puts the lack of rust down to regularly steam cleaning the underside and wheel arches in winter "it is the salt that kills these, keep the salt off, get it inspected by MB once a year for rust and they're fine". As I've seen a lot of rust free 210s in Germany it appears Germans must be better at preserving their 210s than UK buyers.

Post 98 210s had a 20 or 30yr anti corrosion warranty, but they absolutely had to be inspected by MB every year or the warranty is voided.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

Took the ‘new’ car to work today , noticed it’s barely any bigger than a Beetle !