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W210 Merc. The lowest point of Mercedes quality to date? Discuss.


NorfolkNWeigh

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I have long espoused the opinion that the 1995 -2003 Mercedes E Class is better than the 1986 - 1995 one.  This is based on my experiences when new and is seen as heresy by fans of the three pointed star.  Rampant rust from when they were 4 or 5 years old set the tone for later years. Mercedes spent thousands replacing panels and painting complete cars under warranty, I personally know of one 98 estate that had both front wings, a tailgate plus a full respray at 8 years old.

But now the survivors represent amazing value for money, as cars they have all the safety and convenience features that we expect and still have a hint of the granite reputation. 
Last year I bought a lovely e430 with all the AMG kit on it and had to sell it because I had no job and I trebled what I paid for it.

Last night I bought an e240 saloon with 1 owner and 110k miles and a full* service history ( Merc up to 2016 , Specialist since) last service Feb21. It’s got one little scab on the o/s frontwing , but apart from that seems rust free, jacking points rear panel etc seem good. tThe interior is like new a puts my 2014 E Class to shame for quality of materials , little things like real leather seats help. It’s also roomier, more legroom and a rear seat that’s 4” wider.

The first owner paid 72,000 DM for it according to the receipt , he’s now dead and his house in Virginia Water sold for £1.6 million in January, so safe to say he could afford to maintain it well. I came by it from a dodgy Indian guy in acarpark that hadn’t changed the logbook or seemed to know anything about it, oh I also bought it in the dark and rain, all the things you shouldn’t do.

I called the DVLA this afternoon and it’s been put in my name and showing as taxed ( I did it before driving home, but not showing online) so it seems kosher, we’ll see. Price ? £950 , which is either a shitload of money for a very undesirable car or a wise investment in a coming Youngtimer, again time will tell.  But, I needed a family hack after selling the Cooper D last month and it’ll save ‘er indoors Boxster from the salt and shitty roads until I find her an Evoque I can afford, also means I can sell my modern Merc to pay for that Evoque I can’t afford.

Details and maybe even some pics to follow.

 

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I thoroughly enjoyed my brief stint with a W210 E240 earlier this year but found it too comfortable and efficient to be exciting and a vehicle that I could covet. Admittedly, the E240 was an automatic mated to a V6 petrol motor and all my other toys are stick shifts with four pot engines and it’s certainly odd to dislike a car because it’s too good at something that it was designed for.

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I think any of the a- class Clio based Turds they are currently rolling out would be worse than a 210.

210 is ok if you get a good one, not so much if you get a bad one. Much like any car. That said, their early reputation was not brilliant - I remember a manager of mine buying an s300TD at 6 years old From a dealer in Birmingham- needed the front strut towers welded at the first MOT in his hands.

 

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10 minutes ago, 320touring said:

I think any of the a- class Clio based Turds they are currently rolling out would be worse than a 210.

210 is ok if you get a good one, not so much if you get a bad one. Much like any car. That said, their early reputation was not brilliant - I remember a manager of mine buying an s300TD at 6 years old From a dealer in Birmingham- needed the front strut towers welded at the first MOT in his hands.

 

The front spring cups falling off is a very common problem with the W210

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46 minutes ago, 320touring said:

Yep, but on a 7 year old car that was not cheap it's a bit of a pisser..

I totally agree with you, the accountants got control of the company and the mighty Mercedes Benz name got pulled through the mud because of it, around the same time the electronics became much more advanced but with them came issues, I used to remove and refit rear screens on all of the range at MB under warranty due to the antenna contact pads under the glass falling apart, the paint issues came down to the new and improved water based paint, the underseal was cut down and both led to the early rust issue that we are all aware of by now, 

Personally I like the W210 in estate form, if I was to purchase one I would want the 300/350 TD but they are mostly scruffy, with electrical gremlins with to the moon milage, the W211 is now becoming affordable if you don't mind getting your hands dirty and are a nice steer

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They seemed to be either completely fucked or almost minty fresh with little in between. The one I had had very little rust bar the front suspension perches which needed doing for an MOT but the body was in fine fettle. Paid just over a grand for it, ran it for nearly three years and when it eventually failed a MOT (on many suspension issues, mostly caused by Glasgow's third world roads, and a knackered  exhaust, but not rust) I got £400 from a couple of large Polish blokes who turned up, paid with cash and vodka and drove off happy, if only all buyers were like that.
It had the fantastic creamy smooth 3.2 I6 and the 4 speed Mercedes slushbox, very whooshy indeed. I'd love another.

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Did they make them in any colour other than silver?

I'm currently managing the Ex @Peter C and @Agila w210 saloon. 

I really like it. Check back in February after the MOT to see if my opinion suddenly changes. 

The well documented rust probabilities aside, they FEEL solid and well put together. Almost like a high end Toyota or Lexus. 

 

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I am very impressed with mine, bought as a general runabout and to take the dog out. It is far better than I expected and I enjoy driving it far more than any newer car. It has spent all it’s life in London which may be how it has survived so long, it also has two tone leather interior. All the non car people I know cannot believe how cheap it was. These are real bargains in my opinion and can only go up in price.

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3 hours ago, Peter C said:

I thoroughly enjoyed my brief stint with a W210 E240 earlier this year but found it too comfortable and efficient to be exciting and a vehicle that I could covet. Admittedly, the E240 was an automatic mated to a V6 petrol motor and all my other toys are stick shifts with four pot engines and it’s certainly odd to dislike a car because it’s too good at something that it was designed for.

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A former colleague bought a similar model secondhand, which he thought was a bargain. It started to rust around the wheelarches and boot lid lock not too long after he acquired it. He was also turned off by the discovery that the V6 needed something like 8 litres of engine oil for every oil change. I did try to warn him, but it was too late by then....

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22 minutes ago, Tadhg Tiogar said:

He was also turned off by the discovery that the V6 needed something like 8 litres of engine oil for every oil change. I did try to warn him

The 2.1 Turbo diesel Mercedes take more, 11 or 12 litres in a Sprinter.

 

3 hours ago, 320touring said:

I think any of the a- class Clio based Turds they are currently rolling out would be worse than a 210

I'm not a great fan of the A-Class, but there's not much wrong with the Renault parts, it's just that you may as well buy a Mégane and save your money.

Isn't there a quality difference between the German made and South African made W210s, with the South African ones being much more rust prone?

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I've been helping a friend out with a project just lately. The OM606 is hard to beat standard if you upgrade the turbo and pump slightly* The car rides remarkably well and seems very solidly made for the most part, pretty sure I'll be called in to weld it at some point but I can cope with that.

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"I have long espoused the opinion that the 1995 -2003 Mercedes E Class is better than the 1986 - 1995 one".  

You mean the W124? I must say I like the W124 because of it's more 'old fashioned' character - they are really classic Mercedes and do survive well. 

Kind of chalk and cheese 🧀  perhaps.  

 

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On 10/18/2021 at 7:48 PM, chaseracer said:

@Talbot will be along presently...

Correct.  Well, especially if you tag me!  :mrgreen:

It's worth mentioning that the 123/124/210 series of cars are essentially an evolution, with very obvious improvements and refinements moving from one to the next, but keeping the basic layout, style and driving characteristics.  The 211 is then a completely new car, which shares very little from the 210, other than a couple of engines.

I've had 3 210s now, and I've liked all of them.  They definitely represent the "last of the line" of a style and type of Mercedes E-class.  The estate version is absolutely cavernous (if not very tall) and I have used and abused two E300TD (OM606) S210s now for most of 100k miles, coping with pretty much anything I've thrown at them, which is a lot.  Actually it's an awful lot.  When you ask what was an executive class car to haul over half a tonne of steelwork in the back plus a 2.5 tonne trailer, or a car transporter trailer with car on up the air-baloon roundabout hill, or to barrell down a country lane at a rather absurd speed because you cannot be late, or indeed to eat up 500+ miles in a single sitting.... well, it just does it.  In comfort.  With A/C working, cruise control taking care of the monotony, radio 2 on through surprisingly good quality speakers and zero stress.

Yes, some models rusted badly.  This was mainly due to bacteria in the new water based paint.  There appears to be some anecdotal evidence that the less popular colours (and hence less frequently used) had more bacteria growth, and hence rusted out faster.  More popular colours (eg, silver) had far less growth, so the paint lasts longer.  It's why pretty much all of them left are silver.  All the other colours have rotted away.  My previous dark blue/deep purple one was really quite rotten.  Current silver one needs some work, but then what car doesn't when it's 24 years old?

It's also a car I fit in comfortably... I actually look through the centre of the windscreen rather than with many other vehicles where I'm looking through the top 2"-3" of screen.  I do also like the amount of toys it has on board.  Mine isn't even that well equipped (the 430 and E55 models had a lot of kit on them) but it still comes with

  • Driver and passenger power memory seats, including power head restraints, memory mirror positions, power memory steering column.
  • Heated, auto-dipping and auto-drop door mirrors
  • Cruise control with limit drive, linked to the gearbox to attempt to maintain the limit set. (I use that a lot on long journeys, it's brilliant)
  • Digital split-side climate control, which also doubles as a code reader and data analysis tool
  • Brake assist, traction control, yadda yadda
  • Full vehicle closure/opening from remote.
  • and a whole host of other niceties.

Which is a fairly good equipment level for a car now, never mind one that is 24 years old.  It's also got relatively soft compliant suspension and tyres with big sidewalls, making it a very comfortable car over distance.  I've had a few people comment as to just how comfy it is.  Nothing new comes near really.

One of the things I really like about it is the intelligent use of information.  EG:  when you hit "resume" on the Cruise control, it looks at your current accelerator position and vehicle acceleration.  If you were accelerating gently, it will continue to accelerate gently to the set speed.  If, however, you give it a bit of boot and then hit resume, it will continue to give it the beans until the set speed is achieved.  Also, if you knock the cruise off and select limit drive, you can then drive to that set limit.  When you then click limit drive off, it still remembers the cruise speed you had selected before, so can still resume to it.  Brilliant for roadworks on the motorway:  Cruise set at 70*mph.  Get to the roadworks, set a limit of 50.  Once roadworks are over, click to cruise and hit resume.  Very relaxing.  Once you learn about all the little details like that, it's a remarkably clever car for something developed in the late 80s and released in the mid- 90s.

It's a prime autoshite car too.  Utterly bland styling, completely overlooked, bad reputation for rot (not undeserved) and not the cheapest thing in the world to run.  I'm keeping mine for the forseeable.  I just wish it was manual.

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The facelift W210 remains my favourite car ever. Had a brand new one in 2001 (E220CDI - company car days!), and went back for another in 2010 (a MY2000 E320 petrol), when I was spending my own money. Eleven years later, my niece is still driving around in it with 160k miles on the clock.

My dad has had two as well, in Scotland - both E240s, both of which served him well for over five years each.  He now has a W211 - it's a decent car, but not as much of a Merc as the W210. 

As a big, comfy mile-eater, it's hard to beat, particularly with the V6 engine mated to the auto box. It's such a shame about the paint/rust issues, because they're a great car otherwise. I now live in Adelaide, Australia, where cars generally refuse to rust (dashboards splitting is a bigger issue on W210s!) The W210 has a great reputation here - I'd happily buy another, and do keep scanning the websites for that elusive one owner, low km car, which will turn up one day.

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12 hours ago, Tadhg Tiogar said:

He was also turned off by the discovery that the V6 needed something like 8 litres of engine oil for every oil change.

So thats what, 2 or 3 litres more oil than expected, every 10k miles.  Hardly a game changer...

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I still haven’t taken any pics of my latest acquisition, but to give some context to my Mercedes e Class ramblings and opinions , here’s a little gallery from the last 7 or 8 years.  My experiences of driving them go back almost 40 years , the first time I drove one  ( a 1981 280e ) I hadn’t even passed my test and categorically didn’t do 100 mph through the Euston Underpass in it. I’ve owned half a dozen W123s , including a 250 Limo, a similar number or W124s sadly never a cab. although one of my brothers had a lovely Carat Duchalet  kitted from new 320e convertible I coveted but it increased in value so much in his ownership I missed out on it.

A few W211’s and W212’s , one of which I still own even a brief spell of CLS leaseship, which to misquote the GBU verdict of the Capri is “ Just an e Class in a party frock”

But this is only my second actual ownership of a W210, although I’ve driven many miles in other peoples over the years.

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last years e430 with my e220cdi.

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one of the pictures that helped sell it, when I was skint. Parked in a clients garage whilst I was in France with him. I paid £1200 for that, the crests on the Ferrari wing were twice that as an option!!
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The best car I’ve ever owned ( w211 e280cdi ) next to the one I replaced it with ( w212 e250cdi) one of the worse.

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This worked harder than any car I’ve had before or since, I only had it 8 months but did more than a few 1000+ mile days in it. Dodgy swap a lease deal that worked perfect for me at the time .173E1BC4-30CE-4A2C-97B4-48620410CAE2.thumb.jpeg.5eb7ee8e5b29524d1ac4aa58e81b1827.jpeg

The mega mile e220cdi manual I had as back up to my Chrysler 300, which has a lot of w210 in it so almost counts as one but with a w211 engine .

Thatll do for now.

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The ex- @Minimad5 S210 I briefly had really opened my eyes as to how good a 210 can be. 

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Cosmetics weren't perfect, but it drove so nicely. Everything about it was well thought out, and to be honest I do have some regrets about selling it - I really wouldn't be averse to owning another. 

I would say specification is important. A relative owns a very low mileage E240 estate with MB Tex interior and to be honest, it's grim. Silver/light grey everything, bland and boring. It's also very ripe. It uses more fuel than the 320, and feels less urgent than a 220. The better 210s are those with the bigger engines and better spec, which is one difference from a 124. I've had low-spec 124s and they've been great, but similar spec 210s don't feel as good. 

2 hours ago, Talbot said:

Yes, some models rusted badly.  This was mainly due to bacteria in the new water based paint.  There appears to be some anecdotal evidence that the less popular colours (and hence less frequently used) had more bacteria growth, and hence rusted out faster.  More popular colours (eg, silver) had far less growth, so the paint lasts longer.  It's why pretty much all of them left are silver.  All the other colours have rotted away.  My previous dark blue/deep purple one was really quite rotten.  Current silver one needs some work, but then what car doesn't when it's 24 years old?

It's also a car I fit in comfortably... I actually look through the centre of the windscreen rather than with many other vehicles where I'm looking through the top 2"-3" of screen. 

My green E320 was considerably less rotten than the newer E240 mentioned above, which does 500 miles a year and almost never touches the road during winter. Statistical anomaly maybe?

As for space - absolutely agree. It fits tall people very well, seat down and back, set steering wheel reach and rake, and there isn't a whole lot out there that'll be more comfortable. 

I think in time (and probably quite soon ) the W210s will be appreciated for what they are by a wider audience, and the good examples that are left will really climb in value. There will also be the buyers who miss the boat on the last cheap 124s and will then go looking at 210s instead. 

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I bought a W210 E320 CDi off @HMC back in June and I absolutely love it. It's tatty on the outside, but everything works and it still feels very old-school Mercedes - the doors shut with a Teutonic solidarity that shames many a modern. Mine is relatively low mileage at 131k and at the moment I see no reason to change it. 

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2 hours ago, Spottedlaurel said:

Banger racers seem to love them, pretty much as popular as the Scorpios at present.

They do resist crumpling up quite well.  Also the rear overhang is pretty large, so they can take some serious abuse and still keep driving.  Simiarly the side-impact protection is up there too.  The merc specialist I go to has sold a couple of S210s to banger racers, which has suited me well as I was able to take some bits off first.

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Surprised no one has mentioned how quick the  straight six diesels are. The om613 in the 320cdi is a great engine. Massive torque and great fun to drive quickly.

Sadly my 02 s210 320cdi  is probably going to be scrapped soon as a mercedes only (read expensive) hydraulic pipe has burst after having spent £450+ in the last year on the bloody self levelling suspension. The estates are great cars but the rear suspension is their achilles heel, imho. 

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