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Peugeot 309 rescue thread.


DoctorRetro

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You've got the car, you've got the metal, you've got the welder. WCPGW? Seriously,you've got this far, you're not going to go into old age without doing some welding are you? Might as well start here.I know lack of facilities and time of year are against you, but since when has AS been about the easy option? Best of luck. 

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49 minutes ago, DoctorRetro said:

I must admit, there are some days I'm wondering what the point is in what I'm doing, whether I'm flogging a dead horse with this car. 

I've had offers from the Peugeot 309 owners group on FB, but it seems they'd just want the 3 door shell to turn into a GTi rep or something. That would defeat the object though.

Is there any point in keeping old pov spec heaps like this going? 

 

To put it bluntly,if you're hearts not in it then don't start chopping out the rust as it will be a fair bit worse than it looks

Don't get me wrong,I applaud you saving it from what seemed to be it's end but if you don't "really want" to do what seems to be a fairly hefty project,then I'd move it on as it stands before you invest too much of your time and effort

I hope this comes across in the way I mean it too

I'm not having a dig or anything,just looking at it from an outside view

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Just now, andy18s said:

To put it bluntly,if you're hearts not in it then don't start chopping out the rust as it will be a fair bit worse than it looks

Don't get me wrong,I applaud you saving it from what seemed to be it's end but if you don't "really want" to do what seems to be a fairly hefty project,then I'd move it on as it stands before you invest too much of your time and effort

I hope this comes across in the way I mean it too

I'm not having a dig or anything,just looking at it from an outside view

It's a bit late for that!  

 

Get stuck it  Doc.  You may rescue it, you may give up.  Either is fine.

 

Don't set fire to it though.

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16 hours ago, Dobloseven said:

Must have been doing it wrong for the past 32 years then!Seriously, have a look at the many threads posted by forum members welding their own, real cars, including mine, and there's not much butt welding done. 

Just because something is done doesn't make it right. An overlap joint is functional and easy but you still end up with a double skinned area along the seam. Not the end of the world in a box section like a sill where you can drown everything in waxoyl but if you can't get at it for rustproofing I'd just butt weld it.

There's no point in saving miserable old econoboxes, aside from because you want to do it. Builds a skillset at least.

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5 minutes ago, JimH said:

How old is Littleun?

He's 9 going on 13. 

Still likes to get involved with the car, but often slips into grunting teenager on his Xbox with headset on. 😂

He's the only person who's managed to get the 309 running so far, a point he's regularly rubbed in my face. 

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Another tip is to use breakfast cereal boxes for the cardboard to make up your templates for cutting and bending metal. They have decent lengths of folded edges in straight lines and some of these are already at 90 degrees to each other. These are handy for example in creating a cardboard prototype of a patch repair for the end of a sill, which may have a lower lip going in one direction and an end lip going in the other.

Also, I'd suggest modelling your new panel repairs in cardboard first and trying them up on the car to make sure everything fits. Use a permanent marker to trace round them if needed.

Your little'un can help here by insisting you buy his favourite cereals in large size boxes! :-)

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18 minutes ago, sierraman said:

I reckon if you restore a car it’s got to be something you really want to restore. Not necessarily because it’s cheap and you think they’re ok. 

I'm changing my mind on this. In the past I have seen a few cars of the Allegro 2 /Morris Marina variety appear for sale which had been pieced back together to a ridiculously high standard. This always puzzled me - if you are going to haemorrhage that amount of time, effort and skill why not do it on something that has a fighting chance of at least starting to recover your costs to set you on your way to the next project. I'm not talking about making money on this sort of shit rather just trying to keep the cost of your pastime down. 

Of late I have become increasingly bothered by marque experts who are anything but, marque experts who are beyond clueless when it comes to actually getting off their arse and actually doing something to an actual thing and pricks from lesser public schools who have set themselves up in the upmarket banger trade with nowt more than zero knowledge and a sense of entitlement. I've become bothered by tosspots talking about investments - sorry - you have to call them "bankers" in an effort to make you sound like an alpha male City type who has all the inside gen.

Then it struck me. This is why a small number of people burn all that skill and effort on a 1300 Talbot Horizon. They get to sit in their workshop tin bashing and generally getting better at what they do and everyone else leaves them in peace.  

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Be honest, what's the point of most of what we do on here? Most of our cars should have been weighed in, in 2009 against a new Kia Picanto. Mine included. But they've somehow survived and us lot want to keep them alive, or bring them back to life. A guy I do some work for, plays Rugby. He frequently appears with black eyes and in pain from other injuries. In his words, he's getting a bit old for rolling in the mud with other men. As an amateur, it'll be costing him money to play. Is what we're doing really any dafter than that? Restoring a bottom of the range car, that'll be worth one and ninepence when it's done is bonkers but so what?It's not about the money,it's about the challenge and hopefully the satisfaction of a job well done. 

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I was given a tip for getting rust out of carpets (and fabrics) recently. Apparently, if you put a liberal coating of bicarbonate of soda all over the rust and the soak it in a 50/50 solution of white vinegar and distilled water for at least 24 hours it lifts the stain out.  I haven't tried it, and I'm not sure what the reasoning/science behind it is, so I don't know if it works.  Seems an inexpensive thing to try and I can't imagine it will harm the carpet in any way.

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13 minutes ago, Dobloseven said:

Be honest, what's the point of most of what we do on here? Most of our cars should have been weighed in, in 2009 against a new Kia Picanto. Mine included. But they've somehow survived and us lot want to keep them alive, or bring them back to life. A guy I do some work for, plays Rugby. He frequently appears with black eyes and in pain from other injuries. In his words, he's getting a bit old for rolling in the mud with other men. As an amateur, it'll be costing him money to play. Is what we're doing really any dafter than that? Restoring a bottom of the range car, that'll be worth one and ninepence when it's done is bonkers but so what?It's not about the money,it's about the challenge and hopefully the satisfaction of a job well done. 

Unless you are a genuine master of all trades, there is no money to be made buying a car to restore to ultimately get you money back on come resale time. My uncle did a Stag, did the engine work, body, etc only thing he farmed out was spraying it. Don’t know the exact cost in the end but the amount he sold it for was a fraction of what it stood him at. This is why a lot get banger raced, financially they will cost a metric shit load to get in a position to see the road again. You can buy a half decent one for much less than it would be to get a rough one into shape. Yes they could* be restored but the people with the skills to do this are very few and far between, the other option is to get it done professionally which would cost well into £30-40k.

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2 hours ago, Dobloseven said:

..... A guy I do some work for, plays Rugby. He frequently appears with black eyes and in pain from other injuries. In his words, he's getting a bit old for rolling in the mud with other men. As an amateur, it'll be costing him money to play. Is what we're doing really any dafter than that? ...

Or, if you prefer, when a shiter is tired of rugby, he is tired of life. 

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5 hours ago, DoctorRetro said:

Is there any point in keeping old pov spec heaps like this going? 

 

Yes. Everyone saves the higher spec cars. Good example is the the Ford Capri - everyone saves the 3.0S or 2.8 Injection but seeing Dan’s 1.6 Base/L progressing through its restoration is very refreshing to see. As is Vulgalour’s Maestro.

Nothing wrong with preserving the ordinary version of the car.

 

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9 hours ago, DoctorRetro said:

I must admit, there are some days I'm wondering what the point is in what I'm doing, whether I'm flogging a dead horse with this car. 

I've had offers from the Peugeot 309 owners group on FB, but it seems they'd just want the 3 door shell to turn into a GTi rep or something. That would defeat the object though.

Is there any point in keeping old pov spec heaps like this going? 

 

Look at the amount of work we did to keep the Acclaim on the road and it's not even worth the cost of the hours we put in far less the materials. Why did we do it ? I don't have a bloody clue but I would do it all over again in a heartbeat, the skills Captain70's learned will last him the rest of his life and seeing it get a clean mot pass just made it that much more worth it. 

You'll get pissed off with yourself when welding it but that's part of the experience and once you're able to weld you can buy projects that need a wee bit of welding without having to farm it out. 

 

 

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14 hours ago, Tommyboy12 said:

I 'refreshed' (loosely) a below poverty spec Montego. It's more unique than the Montego Turbos barreling round and it's more likely to be on the road too. Poverty models are worth saving! Id have had this one if it weren't for the other poverty car broken on my driveway!

How many base Mk2 Golfs do you see? Far fewer than GTis and Driver models, its a shame the base and mid 'normal' cars are getting rarer.

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On 10/14/2021 at 3:00 PM, DoctorRetro said:

Had a little play with the welder, I literally have no idea how to actually weld/set it up.

8 pages of H&S advice is great, but not a clue how to use it 😂

Used flap wheel on it after to see which bits had actually joined.

IMG20211014144656.thumb.jpg.83f3dc51f418e21d85260d3d004e58a0.jpg

The reverse.

IMG20211014144746.thumb.jpg.1f4d4d83e909e9d9edf8c16a58c898de.jpg

From what I can see, none of that is an acceptable weld. 

I'll have another play when I get chance.

 

 

Firstly, did you go over the welder to see what's what before you started? Is the wire rusty, if it is, strip it off the reel until you find clean stuff underneath and throw it away. Is the tip knackered, if so renew it? If the earth clamp is rusty clean it. The wire should be coming steadily off the reel, not slipping in the roller, feed some wire out and see if you can stop the wire with the palm of your hand, if it slips in the roller tighten it a touch, on a cheap welder keep the torch as straight as possible at all times, they really do not like being used while coiled or twisted.

To set the welder pick one of the settings and strike an arc, holding the torch tip 3/4" ish away from the workpiece then adjust the wire speed and see if you can achieve something approaching a smooth sizzling sound. Do this while the arc is lit, on thin tin you'll want to move the torch a bit to stop it burning straight thru. If it still does drop it down a notch and try again. Until you get the welder set somewhere near right and you know it's capable of actually welding it's a bit pointless trying to stick bits of metal together imo.

Personally I don't lap joint anything on cars/vans everything is butt welded. You know how to prep your material so that's a good start :-)

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High spec cars are saved because folk wished they had them in the day......povvo spec cars are the ones they actually had.

I read something the other week that sort of hit the nail on the head..

"You can buy the BEST Model T in the world, for less than a mid Range Toyota Corrola, but will the Corrola still be around in 100 years???

If I had the room and talent I'd start hoarding 7.5 tonne wagons from bygone years, as these are slowly dissolving back into the earth as there are very few folk Interested in saving them

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6 hours ago, Cord Fourteener said:

How many base Mk2 Golfs do you see? Far fewer than GTis and Driver models, its a shame the base and mid 'normal' cars are getting rarer.

First thing anyone ever did with a Mk2 Golf was bin the awful standard 13 inch steels and get some GTI steels on. The 1.3 C was particularly grim, I can completely see why you’d look for late Driver. 

You don’t see many synchro Golfs left that aren’t Country imports. 

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2 hours ago, sierraman said:

..... The 1.3 C was particularly grim, I can completely see why you’d look for late Driver. ... 

There is a white 1988 Mk.2 Driver that's been sitting on a driveway in Sarratt for at least the last six years. Its owner prefers Saabs and Volvos. He didn't seem too keen on selling when I last asked him, so it looks like he just wants it to rot.

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I’ve welded a couple of Peugeot’s in the past. Metal is very thin on them, so get practiced on something like an old fridge door, or even a microwave case.

Be careful welding outside, wind will take your gas away from the torch, I’d actually do it gasless out side myself, obviously be careful of your sparks etc, that’s what folk will moan about. There’s plenty of mobile welders doing it, so you won’t be the only one.

Saying all that though, the advice to only do it if your sure is the best. A rusty project car will find a home, a rusty project car with lumps missing, poor welding etc is fit for the bridge.

Someone will always say everything is saveable, and they are right.

So long as the guy owning it actually wants it, or has the ability to mend it themselves. I guess it’s the reason better spec stuff is saved- I wouldn’t spend an age on a Mk5 Escort 1.3 myself, as I don’t want to drive the damn thing after. Same reason I wouldn’t pay someone else thousands to mend such a motor.

Im a couple of hundred hours into my rotten Fourtrak, but at the end I’ll have a useful, go anywhere, heavyweight towing machine. 44C485B5-D3BB-4004-9F38-689F4EF7946B.thumb.jpeg.e6cd693abe05918bd876b0d2c1239a21.jpegThe welding here is gasless, it’s usable once practiced. 

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