Jump to content

Peugeot 309 rescue thread.


DoctorRetro

Recommended Posts

  • DoctorRetro changed the title to Peugeot 309 rescue thread.

Had a little play with the welder, I literally have no idea how to actually weld/set it up.

8 pages of H&S advice is great, but not a clue how to use it 😂

Used flap wheel on it after to see which bits had actually joined.

IMG20211014144656.thumb.jpg.83f3dc51f418e21d85260d3d004e58a0.jpg

The reverse.

IMG20211014144746.thumb.jpg.1f4d4d83e909e9d9edf8c16a58c898de.jpg

From what I can see, none of that is an acceptable weld. 

I'll have another play when I get chance.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, DoctorRetro said:

Had a little play with the welder, I literally have no idea how to actually weld/set it up.

8 pages of H&S advice is great, but not a clue how to use it 😂

Used flap wheel on it after to see which bits had actually joined.

IMG20211014144656.thumb.jpg.83f3dc51f418e21d85260d3d004e58a0.jpg

The reverse.

IMG20211014144746.thumb.jpg.1f4d4d83e909e9d9edf8c16a58c898de.jpg

From what I can see, none of that is an acceptable weld. 

I'll have another play when I get chance.

 

 

If you have the settings right for the thickness of steel, try laying down one stationary blob on a clean flat area of steel (not a join) with the trigger held and the gun completely still, timing how long it takes to burn through. 

Your ideal tack is going to be that length of time minus a bit to stop it blowing a hole.

Practice laying those down first, single tacks without blowing a hole.

Then move to your join and try doing the same. It might need a little bit less duration to avoid blowing holes.

Once you get the hang of laying down tacks, all you need to do to join two bits is to lay down a string of individual good tacks. That's pretty much the best way to weld thin metal.

Read through this too.

https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/tutorial.htm

Avoid the forums, they are awful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, DoctorRetro said:

See, I don't even know that...

😄 Good start.

Not sure what welder you have but there should be a chart, or someone will know.

It should sound like sizzling when you press the trigger, and take 1-2 seconds till it burns right through. From the looks of the photo it might be set way too high.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you know the minimum and maximum outputs of the machine, you can use this calculator to work out the power setting.

https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/calculator.htm

Then once that's set, dial down the wire feed and then experiment slowly turning it up until it sounds "right".

I know that's impossible to gauge unless you've done it before, but basically you're looking for a nice calm stable arc, not much sputtering, popping etc. Some people say it sounds like frying bacon. 

If it sounds like a machine gun it's too low. If you feel the wire tip smacking the metal repeatedly, it's too high.

You'll get the feel of it.

Don't bother trying to lay 'beads' of weld, zig zagging the torch or anything. Just focus on laying down a perfect single tack.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For a first go, that's not bad. I've spoken to the olds and they swear that they've not thrown the destructions away - but they weren't with it when i picked it up. If they surface, I'll get them to you.

@juular & @GingerNuttz cheers for replying, I'm no help as it's 15+ years since i've used the old beast! No idea on power etc, I only used it for welding corner plates on bangers (badly - pigeon shite) but I have full confidence in @DoctorRetro to get this done, with the help of experienced metal-stickers like yourself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 Max or 2 Low will do for power if its anything up to a 90amp unit which it looks to be. If the wire feed scale is 1-12 use about 7. If its 1-10 use about 5.5-6. That should get you going. You know youre close when it sounds like a nice clean sizzle and you see a nice heat colouration for at least half a cm around the area of weld, that should be reflected on the reverse side too although not as big a spread. If youre getting lots of spatter then your metal isnt clean enough or your wire speed is too high. Remember that steel bought from the merchant has an oil coating which means it isnt 'clean'.

Another thing to consider is your gas flow. I run about 10 litres per minute and ideally you need to be about 10-12lpm. If you dont have a gauge then adjust the knob to a very low setting then slowly increase until you hear a nice clean flow coming from the torch without it sounding weak or like its rushing out like an air leak from a tyre. This is actually easier to do with the welder turned off (the trigger will still release gas) so you dont have any background noise. Hold the torch to your ear and listen as you adjust the knob and the flow changes.

You may find once you get to the car that even 1 Max is too much power and will blow holes in the thinner metal so you may need to drop it to 1 Low and slow the wire speed down a little but the principle is still the same.

Post some pictures up of your welds without dressing them. It will be easier to assess them and provide feedback.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're trying to butt weld, which is difficult at the best of times. Easier to weld with the repair piece on top of the part to be repaired, if you get my meaning. Just keep experimenting with different setting.Perhaps start in a midway position and work up or down. If you're getting a lot of blow holes, turn it down. If the weld is in blobs on the surface with little heat penetration, turn it up. Regarding wire speed, if the wire burns back into the tip, too slow. If it pushes into, or through the weld, too fast. It's all a balancing act, really. What wire are you using?. 6mm is fine for car bodywork. Gas? I use Argoshield, 85% argon, 15% Co2. You'll soon get the hang of it. Keep posting, and best of luck. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another thing to keep in mind; If the welder has previously been set up for flux core wire then the polarity will need to be set differently for solid-core-gas-sheilded wire. (behind the flap, 2 chunky wires that can be unscrewed and swapped around)  With sheilding gas the torch should be + positive & the ground clamp will be - negative.

 

Edit: This probably all feels like an avalanche of information, the trick i've found to learning welding is just bashing your head against it repetedly until you fail better and better, before you know it you'll be welding up old bangers like its nothing. :D👍

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don’t weld so you’d be well in a position to tell me to piss off. However you might be as well asking someone who does weld to drop by and give you some coaching as you weld it. Like teaching an individual anything you need to see it first hand, I don’t know if I’m alone in this but I find it difficult to learn something from a book but if someone shows me practically I can learn it parrot fashion. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Dobloseven said:

You're trying to butt weld, which is difficult at the best of times. Easier to weld with the repair piece on top of the part to be repaired, if you get my meaning. 

If you do this, you'll create a double skin which is a rust magnet. If you do it to practice, please don't repair the actual car this way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^^^ all excellent advice.

A good weld looks a bit like a fat earthworm sunk into the metal you are welding. If it resembles a skinny centipede instead, turn up the amps a bit and try it again...

Also, not sure if you are aware of this already, you push the torch forwards and away from you as you weld, rather than pulling it towards you or moving it sideways. The pushing away movement helps to retain the shielding gas cloud around the welding wire. IIRC the gas excludes oxidising air from around the weld and also helps it cool, both of which help to give a better quality result.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, juular said:

If you do this, you'll create a double skin which is a rust magnet. If you do it to practice, please don't repair the actual car this way.

Must have been doing it wrong for the past 32 years then!Seriously, have a look at the many threads posted by forum members welding their own, real cars, including mine, and there's not much butt welding done. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Dobloseven said:

Must have been doing it wrong for the past 32 years then!Seriously, have a look at the many threads posted by forum members welding their own, real cars, including mine, and there's not much butt welding done. 

Has the original comment been misinterpreted? I'm guessing it was about using an overlap joint, but the words could be read also also as suggesting a new panel be welded in place over the top of the old one, rather like a 'cover sill' in the old days! I'd agree that these would be best avoided.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

Has the original comment been misinterpreted? I'm guessing it was about using an overlap joint, but the words could be read also also as suggesting a new panel be welded in place over the top of the old one, rather like a 'cover sill' in the old days! I'd agree that these would be best avoided.

I think you're right there. Should have used the expression "overlap joint". Hopefully the good Doctor will know what I meant. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, Dobloseven said:

Hopefully the good Doctor will know what I meant. 

I have no clue what's going on anywhere most days tbh. 😂 But I think I get it.

Found these before and after pics. Don't think I'll get the rust completely out of the carpet, but I'll probably spray the carpet and throw some mats in.

 

IMG20211007171651.jpg

IMG20211009143532.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I must admit, there are some days I'm wondering what the point is in what I'm doing, whether I'm flogging a dead horse with this car. 

I've had offers from the Peugeot 309 owners group on FB, but it seems they'd just want the 3 door shell to turn into a GTi rep or something. That would defeat the object though.

Is there any point in keeping old pov spec heaps like this going? 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, DoctorRetro said:

I must admit, there are some days I'm wondering what the point is in what I'm doing, whether I'm flogging a dead horse with this car. 

I've had offers from the Peugeot 309 owners group on FB, but it seems they'd just want the 3 door shell to turn into a GTi rep or something. That would defeat the object though.

Is there any point in keeping old pov spec heaps like this going? 

 

If there is no point, I abandon them, and would fully back any decision you make.

I don't see that turning it into a GTi or whatever, is a bad step.

Many may disagree, but would they repair it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, DoctorRetro said:

Is there any point in keeping old pov spec heaps like this going? 

Yep! It's lovely! They are more interesting and certainly more rare than their high spec. siblings.

One of our Visas doesn't even get a clock! It is interesting to see what people were content to have, thirty-odd years ago...

Link to comment
Share on other sites


I know what you mean, I really liked my Laguna RN for its total black-bumper, base-spec poverty nature, but I never met a single other person who didn't think I was deranged in my enthusiasm for it.

DSC00273.JPG

"Look, that's where the RT models had a centre console... and where the stereo read-out would have been... and oh, the door cards are completely different. No airbag either, just look at the skinny steering wheel!"

At the end of the day, a car's only worth sorting if you've the mojo for it. Much as I'd love to see someone throw a boggo little car like this over in @TripleRich's direction with a blank chequebook, it's unlikely to happen unless someone with a significant roughness of cash is prepared to let their heart rule their head. We're very niche here.

But I think you've approached this one sensibly, as a project to help bolster your car skills, and you've made great progress already with getting the welding gear functional.

If it's proving a drag, though, I'd not be feeling bad if the 309 Forum bods take it on - the future for this was looking pretty bleak before you stepped in, so a save's a save, even if it ends up wearing GTi badges one day. 

But see how you get on - you've a few options to take this forward just now, and that's not a bad place to be.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...