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Peugeot 309 rescue thread. Sills done!


DoctorRetro

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2 hours ago, DoctorRetro said:

That's something else I'll need to consider. Luckily where I work is out of the way, so there's not much in the way of foot traffic, but there's neighbours to think about. You can't always see who's out and about when you're underneath the car. 

I'll try to rig up some sort of sheet / barrier around where I'm working.

Bit of an old wives tale IMHO. You need to be very near to the arc for arc eye. Not walking through the yard. Worst that can happen is you can't weld and fabricate. On the basis of that get stuck in lad 👍

Edit

Just realised that could sound a bit arrogant. If youre worried about passersby while you're welding and don't have a screen just use your own body, ie car, weld, you in that order. Probably worth it for peace of mind. People can be arseholes...

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3 hours ago, MJK 24 said:

Yep.  I nearly lost an Alfa 33 years ago.

Funnily enough I almost lost an Alfa 75 in the same way! Again I propped the carpet up with an extension bar, but a spark landed on what I thought was a cable on the inside of the floorpan. That turned out to be the (under pressure) nylon fuel line, which with a pinhole in it processed to soak the carpet in petrol!

The car was saved by my girlfriend at the time who was watching, thinking quickly enough to grab a CO2 fire extinguisher and put it out!

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49 minutes ago, Matty said:

Bit of an old wives tale IMHO. You need to be very near to the arc for arc eye. Not walking through the yard. Worst that can happen is you can't weld and fabricate. On the basis of that get stuck in lad 👍

Edit

Just realised that could sound a bit arrogant. If youre worried about passersby while you're welding and don't have a screen just use your own body, ie car, weld, you in that order. Probably worth it for peace of mind. People can be arseholes...

Could you park one of your other cars in front of it to act as a shield /keep people away?The time spent actually welding is very small if all is going well. Best to do it in short bursts anyway, to prevent heat build up. Best of luck, keep posting lots of pics.) 

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1 minute ago, Dobloseven said:

Could you park one of your other cars in front of it to act as a shield /keep people away?The time spent actually welding is very small if all is going well. Best to do it in short bursts anyway, to prevent heat build up. Best of luck, keep posting lots of pics.) 

I'm probably going to trap a large sheet in the doors of both cars as a shield, and like you say, short sessions. There's no hurry, I don't have any deadlines.

Plus, this time of year, daylight starts running out pretty quickly.

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1 hour ago, Matty said:

Bit of an old wives tale IMHO. You need to be very near to the arc for arc eye. Not walking through the yard. Worst that can happen is you can't weld and fabricate. On the basis of that get stuck in lad 👍

Edit

Just realised that could sound a bit arrogant. If youre worried about passersby while you're welding and don't have a screen just use your own body, ie car, weld, you in that order. Probably worth it for peace of mind. People can be arseholes...

There currently is no distance considered safe from an unshielded arc. It's not the bright light that gives arc eye, it's the UV radiation.

Thankfully most people aren't stupid enough to stare into a very bright light. However there is always one and the person producing that unshielded arc is the one liable. 

Looking at our A4 earlier, it also reminded me that grinding dust travels a long way. Thankfully it's only the side windows and paint that's affected. It was my fault as it was me doing it, but if it was someone else doing it to my car, I'd be rather annoyed.

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Off the subject, I found out partially what the problem with the fuel pump is - there are no volts making it to the pump. Hence no fuel being pushed into the carb. It must have been ok previous, as I've had it running.

Fuse or relay maybe? Will check once I've got the manual where to look. 

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7 minutes ago, DoctorRetro said:

Off the subject, I found out partially what the problem with the fuel pump is - there are no volts making it to the pump. Hence no fuel being pushed into the carb. It must have been ok previous, as I've had it running.

Fuse or relay maybe? Will check once I've got the manual where to look. 

Fuse, relay, mice chewing wiring etc. Best get a multimeter out or even easier a test lamp and see where the 12 volts get to. 

I'd suspect it's a bad earth. If it was working before it's parked up then there's not been a surge current to blow a fuse but corrosion can mess with your connections. 

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22 minutes ago, SiC said:

There currently is no distance considered safe from an unshielded arc. It's not the bright light that gives arc eye, it's the UV radiation.

Thankfully most people aren't stupid enough to stare into a very bright light. However there is always one and the person producing that unshielded arc is the one liable. 

Looking at our A4 earlier, it also reminded me that grinding dust travels a long way. Thankfully it's only the side windows and paint that's affected. It was my fault as it was me doing it, but if it was someone else doing it to my car, I'd be rather annoyed.

I've no science on it Si I'll be honest. Just never known it happen at work. Fair play though, not worth the risk 

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12 minutes ago, SiC said:

If you Google
"Peugeot 309 Service and Repair Manual - TECHNIrevue", I did see a Haynes PDF come up.

Ah. Apparently the relay has a safety that works off the oil pressure light so the fuel pump only runs when the engine is running. So of course I cant get voltage at the pump.

 

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make sure there is no underseal type Goo anywhere near the welding, as this is VERY flammable....

also, be prepared to learn A- a new dance and B - new swear words WHEN sparks find bare flesh!!!!

so make sure to film so we can Laugh learn how to weld... ;)

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4 minutes ago, bezzabsa said:

make sure there is no underseal type Goo anywhere near the welding, as this is VERY flammable....

also, be prepared to learn A- a new dance and B - new swear words WHEN sparks find bare flesh!!!!

so make sure to film so we can Laugh learn how to weld... ;)

Already found this out today when checking the welder worked (without gas) and a spark spat off, burnt through my trousers and into my knee. 😂

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5 minutes ago, stuboy said:

hair, skin will burn, my favourite was when its sparked and landed in my ear....

OUCH

down the back of ya neck is also quite fun!!!! especially if wearing overalls!!

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12 minutes ago, bezzabsa said:

OUCH

down the back of ya neck is also quite fun!!!! especially if wearing overalls!!

The most painful one I've had was in my boot.

Quickly learned work boots are a good choice, yes...but for the love of puppies, don't tick your trousers into them!

Also pretty much goes without saying, do NOT do welding wearing man made fibres.  Polyester trousers etc will just melt to your skin, and will quite merrily burn if it gets hot enough - cotton etc is your friend as it doesn't melt and unless you get it really hot will just smoulder.

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As you've found out Doc, the fuel pump on 80s Pugs sometimes works via a tachymetric relay. The pump will get voltage with the key in the start position and also when the engine is running. Just putting the ignition on with a static engine will not give it voltage. 

Safety innit. And it works... most of the time 😄

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3 hours ago, Matty said:

Bit of an old wives tale IMHO. You need to be very near to the arc for arc eye. Not walking through the yard. Worst that can happen is you can't weld and fabricate. On the basis of that get stuck in lad 👍

Edit

Just realised that could sound a bit arrogant. If youre worried about passersby while you're welding and don't have a screen just use your own body, ie car, weld, you in that order. Probably worth it for peace of mind. People can be arseholes...

Not often I disagree with you But that's absolute rubbish.

Your body is no shield to someone slightly to one side, or in a kiddies bedroom.

You can tell people not to watch, and they still do.

It's like 'wet paint, do not touch'.

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Just to add my twopenneth worth on the Arc-eye thing...  It's not so much the looking directly at it which causes arc-eye (although that absolutely can) it's when you think you're not looking at it, but the arc still has line-of-sight to the eyeball, and hence  UV is getting in.  This is because you end up with a lot more exposure than you're aware of.  If you see an absurdly bright welding arc, many (if not most) people will know to look away.   I've had arc-eye a few times via the "I didn't realise" method, and it is beyond unpleasant.

Whilst I don't think welding outside in a communal area is too much of an issue, there are significant precautions needed to ensure that no eyes are the recipient of unwanted UV.  And you cannot understate just how much UV comes off a weld.  I've also (stupidly) given myself some fairly nasty sunburn from welding before now.  You absolutely have to ensure that ALL skin is covered.  It was only about 10 mins of (fairly heavy) welding, and I looked like I'd been on holiday to the algarve and sat out in the sun all day like an idiot.

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9 hours ago, Mally said:

Not often I disagree with you But that's absolute rubbish.

Your body is no shield to someone slightly to one side, or in a kiddies bedroom.

You can tell people not to watch, and they still do.

It's like 'wet paint, do not touch'.

Fair point. Must admit I'm a bit prone to a fuck it it'll be right attitude

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It's amazing how many people have a 'What I'd do' comment to make. 

Great - that's you though.

I didn't see anyone else stepping up to rescue this car, and I've not had a single pm offering to take the project over to save my 'poor neighbours' from the 'horror' that is one bloke pottering about on his old cars in the corner of a quiet square.

Some of the safety advice is great, and will be taken on board, but I can't do anything about the location or circumstances. 

So if you're not prepared to buy the car and take over, or rent me a workshop somewhere, then shush and let me get on with it!

Fucksake Autoshite, when did we turn into a bunch of nagging Karen's?! 🙄😂

Love you all really, but just chill eh? 😘

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7 minutes ago, DoctorRetro said:

So if you're not prepared to buy the car and take over, or rent me a workshop somewhere, then shush and let me get on with it!

Fucksake Autoshite, when did we turn into a bunch of nagging Karen's?!

Well said, there are not enough people repairing cars in the street anymore as they did when I was a child. I was impressed and surprised to see someone welding a gate near the pavement recently in the nicer part of the town.

I welded a car for a friend years ago in a communal car park with a long extension lead running from his house, I would not recommend doing it late at night in the rain as I did, but when you are tight for time you have to do what is needed to get the job done.

On the safety side, some good advice has been offered, it is better not to learn the hard way. The worst fire I had was when I was in a pit welding an inner sill, I had removed the back seat and lifted the carpet and soundproofing, the back seat was propped up out of the way. On the rear wheel arches of a Cortina there are strips of velour glued where the seat back rests against the wheelarch, I had unpeeled them  18 inches up the wheelarch and taped them out of the way. Unbeknown to me the tape come loose and the velour fell back into place (still about 4 inches from where I was actually welding) This acted like a wick and the fire spread quickly along the headlining, sun visors, half the rear seat. The first I knew was an orange glow and an unpleasant noise. I put out the fire with the garden hose and saved the car but it had a kink in the roof from the heat and took a LOT of cleaning.

Another time, welding a bulkhead lying upside down on the floor pan I could see an orange glow, turned around and it was still behind me, then there was a horrible smell and I realised my hair was on fire, this was years ago when I had hair. Also don’t wear fur lined rigger boots! 
I admire you for taking this on and having a go, we all need to learn, keep up the good work and look after yourself, learn from other peoples mistakes where possible rather than your own, take regular breaks from the welding and keep checking for fires, even for some time after you finish. 

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41 minutes ago, DoctorRetro said:

Fucksake Autoshite, when did we turn into a bunch of nagging Karen's?! 🙄😂

Yep, seems to be going that way. We'll be getting advised not to dare fixing brakes next.

Be sensible, take all safety precautions. Double and triple check everything. Go slow. Engage a 'what if that goes wrong?' attitude. Definitely shield innocent bystanders from arc-eye. Remove all fuel and flammable shit from the work area and quite a large radius round that too.

But don't let a bit of danger put you off, it's more dangerous actually driving a car.

(Yes I have set myself on fire with a welder several times.)

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  • DoctorRetro changed the title to Peugeot 309 rescue thread. Sills done!

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