Peugeot 309 rescue thread. Moving on.

[DoctorRetro]

I'm worried now about the local ant population. A tarpaulin over where I'm working won't stop the ants marching along their designated route! Imagine a whole ant colony with arc eye. Someone better call the RSPCA or something! 

[danthecapriman]

Take a few obvious safety precautions by all means, use common sense - if something doesn’t feel right to you then don’t just do it anyway, find an alternative or make doing it safer another way. Then just get stuck in. 
It’ll take a bit of practice to get the hang of it but you’ll get it eventually so don’t get disheartened and give up. Everyone starts somewhere and it’s never a bad thing to pick up a new skill, especially one like this as it comes in very handy and opens up a whole new world of shitty car - no longer will you look at a car and not buy it because it’s rusty! You buy it anyway and can now weld it!

Anyway, best of luck… you’ll be fine once your into it.

[Tommyboy12]

Ah welding outside... So much fun when its anything but a calm mild day... As youre welding sills it should be fairly easy to protect from the elements/passers-by trying to blind themselves. Id be more worried about laying on your side and ending up with welding spatter in your ear hole. That shit burns. Wear ear defenders or some sort of cover over your ear believe me.

[GingerNuttz]

Wait till you get a red hot welding bomber down your shorts 😂 You jump up and do a wee dance to appease the welding gods. 

 

[Tommyboy12]

You never move so quick as when a searing blob of metal is burning its way through your person 😂

[dean36014]

Not much difference to welding in your private car park than welding on your driveway. I'd recommend picking up a full size fire extinguisher to keep on standby just incase, and a spray bottle of water to cool things down. If anyone can transport it from Coventry to wherever you are I have a full size welding screen to protect passerby eyes. Your welcome to have it as it just sat in my garden. It's about 6ft tall and opens out to about 6ft wide from memory. Needs to go on a roof rack or large estate.

[sierraman]

By all means weld the fucker up in your living room for me. It was simply a suggestion to avoid hassle with the neighbours. 

[Fumbler]

Welding splatter is nasty stuff. I had some go straight through my overalls and socks and roast a patch of my foot!

[Scruffy Bodger]

I'm one of the few that still works on the street when I have to, in my case a very busy High Street in a small town. In 20 years I'm the only one ever to work on cars on this stretch and never had any complaints. This includes having to cut some bolts off with a grinder during a suspension bush change on an Audi coupe and getting the welder out trying to get the lock nuts off a local lads car when he realised his tyres were illegal. People aren't all bad.  In the instance above my V50 was propped on a tyre and a piece of wood for 3 days until a second hand alternator turned up.  Personally I'd just get on with it.

As for fires, I ALWAYS keep the spanner for the Co2 welding gas bottle with the welder, just in case. Fetch anything obvious out the way if you need to and check regularly that all's ok, if you need to arm someone with a cuppa and get them on fire watch. Cotton is king, avoid man made fibres unless you want a permanent reminder of the job, I have a few...  I don't mean cotton fucking wool either like some on here might have you wear.

As for all the fuss about UV, it's subject to the inverse square law http://www.solutionsdesignedforhealthcare.com/solutions/products/uv-disinfection/physics-101-inverse-square-law much more bother for the welder operator and much less of a problem if others are are a reasonable distance away.  Some sort of shield where you are working isn't a bad idea for wind and can double up if you're worried about others.

[danthecapriman]

1 hour ago, Fumbler said:

Welding splatter is nasty stuff. I had some go straight through my overalls and socks and roast a patch of my foot!

I was welding the floor on a mk2 Granada once, I was under the car with my visor down welding away when I started to feel a very warm sensation down one side of me. Thought ‘wtf is that’ but couldn’t see sod all because of the visor… 

Eventually managed to flick the visor up and found Id set the sweatshirt I was wearing on fire! It was well alight too! 
I don’t think I’ve ever moved so fast frantically shuffling myself out from under the car while alight. 
Very close call that was. It must have been a splatter landing on me and smouldering for a while before getting hot enough to light up. No injuries thank god, but one sweatshirt and the T shirt I had on under it were well and truly written off! 
Lesson here is to wear appropriate clothing. It’s quite funny in hindsight but could have been nasty.

[juular]

1 minute ago, danthecapriman said:

I was welding the floor on a mk2 Granada once, I was under the car with my visor down welding away when I started to feel a very warm sensation down one side of me. Thought ‘wtf is that’ but couldn’t see sod all because of the visor… 

Eventually managed to flick the visor up and found Id set the sweatshirt I was wearing on fire! It was well alight too! 
I don’t think I’ve ever moved so fast frantically shuffling myself out from under the car while alight. 
Very close call that was. It must have been a splatter landing on me and smouldering for a while before getting hot enough to light up. No injuries thank god, but one sweatshirt and the T shirt I had on under it were well and truly written off! 
Lesson here is to wear appropriate clothing. It’s quite funny in hindsight but could have been nasty.

It's all so familiar! My best one so far is welding away on a cold day and feeling what I thought was the heat of the sun finally coming out. It was very pleasant for a surprisingly long time. Because I was wearing a respirator I couldn't smell that the entire foam kneepad I was lying on had gone up in flames in a spectacular fashion. It was only when I actually saw the flames dimming the welding visor I frantically scrambled out from under the car and launched the mat into a big puddle.

Underseal also burns for a surprisingly long time, even when it has melted and fallen off, it just creates a new fire wherever it lands.

[Scruffy Bodger]

23 minutes ago, juular said:

Underseal also burns for a surprisingly long time, even when it has melted and fallen off, it just creates a new fire wherever it lands.

So does the oil/sludge that accumulates under some old vehicles/4x4's. Years ago I was in the footwell of  a Bobtail Range Rover, owner was meant to be on fire watch keeping an eye on the underneath. I felt a waft of very warm air come up into the helmet, look over my shoulder, the owner was watching me... Very much ablaze I took my T shirt off (no gauntlets) and used that to tamp the flames out. 3 large spots of that boiling oil dripped onto my bicep in the process.  I ran the area under a cold tap for some minutes but when I tried to wipe the oil off my skin slid off with it, the scars are very much still there 15-20 years later.

On occasion I actually let the underseal burn for a while and then tamp it out with a gauntlet as it gets rid of the pesky stuff and you get a better weld.

[tooSavvy]

I had a fellow from work (in exchange for a bag of sweeties, for his littleun) weld a back patch.... MK3 Cortina, rear sill end = MOT.

He swore most emphatically... Parentage questioned, even!! ..... as a warm soup of Waxoyl dribbled into his face.

#yes..... Oceans 🤫

[GingerNuttz]

This should protect you well enough.

[adw1977]

3 hours ago, Scruffy Bodger said:

arm someone with a cuppa and get them on fire watch

That's a really good idea, have someone else with you (at a safe distance) purely to watch out for signs of fire so you can focus on the task in hand.

Although a cup of tea might not be the most effective fire fighting equipment! 😉

[danthecapriman]

2 hours ago, juular said:

It's all so familiar! My best one so far is welding away on a cold day and feeling what I thought was the heat of the sun finally coming out. It was very pleasant for a surprisingly long time. Because I was wearing a respirator I couldn't smell that the entire foam kneepad I was lying on had gone up in flames in a spectacular fashion. It was only when I actually saw the flames dimming the welding visor I frantically scrambled out from under the car and launched the mat into a big puddle.

Underseal also burns for a surprisingly long time, even when it has melted and fallen off, it just creates a new fire wherever it lands.

Tbh, the feeling I got from doing it was uncannily similar to that when you piss yourself on a cold day! A sort of nice warmth in a small patch. Until you realise what it is of course! Flames or piss… never good!

[Tadhg Tiogar]

44 minutes ago, danthecapriman said:

Tbh, the feeling I got from doing it was uncannily similar to that when you piss yourself on a cold day! A sort of nice warmth in a small patch. Until you realise what it is of course! Flames or piss… never good!

Surely one puts out the other....?

[JeeExEll]

7 hours ago, Shite Ron said:

Well said, there are not enough people repairing cars in the street anymore as they did when I was a child. I was impressed and surprised to see someone welding a gate near the pavement recently in the nicer part of the town.

I welded a car for a friend years ago in a communal car park with a long extension lead running from his house, I would not recommend doing it late at night in the rain as I did, but when you are tight for time you have to do what is needed to get the job done.

I remember a 1970s or early 80s custom magazine reader's cars feature where a guy had done all the work on his car (welding new custom bodywork, fibreglassing, filling, sanding, spraying, interior) in the public car park below his flat - he lived on something like the seventh floor of a tower block and ran extension leads out the window.  IIRC it was something like a Toyota Celica or a FD Victor with a Rover V8.

[danthecapriman]

23 minutes ago, Tadhg Tiogar said:

Surely one puts out the other....?

Depends on what you’ve been drinking!

[tooSavvy]

"filtered beer".... Ashington pitmen used it a lot, to bring on the leeks.....

🤫

[Tadhg Tiogar]

38 minutes ago, danthecapriman said:

Depends on what you’ve been drinking!

 

21 minutes ago, tooSavvy said:

"filtered beer".... Ashington pitmen used it a lot, to bring on the leeks.....

🤫

IPA = I Piss Alcohol?

[SiC]

Anyone who's followed any of my threads will have seen I weld outside and may have noticed the green curtain. I always put my big green welding curtain up to protect against passersby. My old place had the garage and work area down the side of the house. Hence our private "alley" was blocked off at the end with the curtain. There was no angle that anyone could see the arc. Also we lived in a cul-de-sac and never got anyone down apart from neighbours.

In my current place I'm lucky enough to have a garage big enough to work in. Unfortunately the Dolomite is a big work in progress project and the Moggie had crusty bits. My neighbours that our drive is next to was away thankfully. So having the curtain up was sufficient to block light from any parsers by.

8 hours ago, Scruffy Bodger said:

As for all the fuss about UV, it's subject to the inverse square law http://www.solutionsdesignedforhealthcare.com/solutions/products/uv-disinfection/physics-101-inverse-square-law much more bother for the welder operator and much less of a problem if others are are a reasonable distance away.  Some sort of shield where you are working isn't a bad idea for wind and can double up if you're worried about others.

While it is true the UV emitted from the arc is subject to inverse square law, that's not the full story. As the graph shows, the energy flat lines but still is substantial for a decent distance. The issue here is that apart from UVA and UVB, the welding arc emits UVC. 

Problem with UVC is that it's blocked by the OZone layer from the sun. So our bodies haven't adapted to block or protect against it (unlike UVB and UVA), especially our eyes. Thus we have no real inbuilt protection against it. It's also of higher energy. Hence why there is no known safe level. 

It's also why reasonable power (i.e. Chinese) lasers are so dangerous. Despite inverse square law, there is still more than enough energy from a long distance to do damage to the eyes. 

With welding on low currents, from a distance you'd probably need more than a flash (unlike close up) but it's still possible to do damage.  Especially if someone is being nosy and staring at the arc. This is why a curtain is still needed to be responsible and courtesy of others.

Admittedly the one thing that is going to piss the neighbours off and one I'm really aware of (which has cause moaning) is the grinder. Grinding for hours on end really does grind peoples gears.

[loserone]

Lots of good advice here, maybe it should go in the welding thread though?

[Dr_Slow]

14 minutes ago, SiC said:

It's also why reasonable power (i.e. Chinese) lasers are so dangerous. Despite inverse square law, there is still more than enough energy from a long distance to do damage to the eyes. 

Pedant mode *on*: Laser light intensity doesn't follow the inverse square law, because laser light is highly collimated and has a very low divergence (travels in a tight well-directed beam even over very long distances). The inverse square law holds for light that is emitted isotropically (equal in all directions) which applies (to a very good approximation) to a light bulb or welding arc. This is why your eyes can be damaged by a class 3B laser or above (5 milliwatts or 0.005 Watts and above) while a 100 Watt bulb won't do any harm.

Annoying pedant mode *off*

[Mrs6C]

Things I have found useful when welding, especially outside:

1. Pure wool blankets make good protectors against sparks landing where they shouldn't and starting fires. Wool doesn't catch fire. You should be able to find them secondhand in charity shops still or online. Just check them first with a smouldering match, to make sure they haven't been coated in something flammable!!! Otherwise buy yourself a fire blanket and use that. You can get them at Screwfix, on the internet etc.

2. Wear ear muffs. Weld spatter down the ears isn't fun.

3. A long sleeved, biker-style leather jacket and welding gauntlets are good protection for your upper body. Another wool blanket draped over your lower body will protect your legs. Wear jeans and leather workboots and make sure your jeans go over the tops of your boots... wear pure wool socks as well.

4. Keep a squeezy bottle of water around to squirt on any small flames that appear anywhere, a bucket of water to throw over anything medium and a fire extinguisher for anything worse. A mobile 'phone to hand for a 999 call if it all goes horribly wrong is a good idea too.

5. Old commercial carpet tiles, like the kind that go into computer server rooms, are fire-resistent. Carpet-side in, they are great for forming enclosures around things (use duct tape to join them together on their outside edges) to stop air draughts blowing the gas shield away from the weld and catch weld spatter. You can bend or fold them and wedge them into spaces to stop stray sparks getting past and of course they can be used again and again.

6. Get the metal as clean and shiny as possible. The cleaner the metal, the easier and better the weld.

7. If you are joining one panel directly on top of another, clamp the two bits together as tight as you can. Leave no gap or your weld will blow through and not fuse teh metal.

8. Rest your trigger hand on a block of wood of the right thickness  to keep the torch tip at the right distance from the metal and slide the block along the work piece as you go. You can focus on operating the torch instead of trying to keep the distance constant. You could use a dowel or broom handle too, like a painter's mahl stick and slide your hand along it.

9. Get the earth clamp as close to the metal you are welding as possible and make sure it is atttached firmly to good metal.

10. Welding in short bursts with time in between helps to keep things cool and minimise distortion. Tack metal together with even spacing and fill up the spaces, going round each one a bit at a time in turn, until all are done. It is possible to work with really thin metal this way.

11. Clean off your welds with a wire brush afterwards to get them clean and free of soot. Dress them with an angle grinder and/or file as needed.

12. Paint the welds on both sides (if you can get at both sides!) with a rust-inhibiting primer such as Finnegan's No. 1 as soon as the welds are clean and dressed to the point you are happy. They will start to rust very quickly otherwise, especially as we are getting into the cooler weather.

Good luck! The car is lovely, so well done for taking it on. I hope the above tips will be useful for you.

[Andyrew]

Only thing i would add to the advice from mrs6 would be to go for TIG welding gloves rather than normal welding gaunlets.  Less clumbsy.

[angle]

Also, don't do this. 

[JimH]

On 10/10/2021 at 9:56 PM, Talbot said:

  I've also (stupidly) given myself some fairly nasty sunburn from welding before now.  You absolutely have to ensure that ALL skin is covered.  It was only about 10 mins of (fairly heavy) welding, and I looked like I'd been on holiday to the algarve and sat out in the sun all day like an idiot.

Here is a question that I can't find an answer to. 

For yonks our stick welder was an ancient 3 phase Oxford unrectified set (so ancient it is filled with whale oil) and I have burned through a lot of rather butch welding rods with it and not once noticed an issue with sunburn (I have been known to be a little slapdash covering my arms). We now have a Lincoln recitified DC set and even after only a couple of hours of poncy, not exactly industrial welding you notice the sunburn. Certainly enough to make me roll my sleeves down, anyway. 

Is there a difference between AC and DC arc welding or is it (more likely) my skin getting old and crap.   

[stuboy]

On 10/11/2021 at 11:12 AM, Andyrew said:

rather than normal welding gaunlets.

only good for handling ferocious cats

[DoctorRetro]

A photo to keep the thread loosely about the Peugeot 309 😜