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Classic cars that are depreciating


Rustycarlover
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16 hours ago, SiC said:

I don't buy that most people want to buy a particular classic car because of its their generation. There are some but plenty of others want to buy something because it interests them - whether a driving experience they can't get elsewhere, love the look+feel and/or just facinated by the history.

I disagree (politely), there are plenty of people like us who just like various cars because the engineering or history interests them but what drives the market are people who are collecting what they couldn't have when young like XR3s and so on.  They will buy the best with no real concern on price and then plenty of others jump on that rising market and ask inflated prices.

Does seem logical that the lower end of the market will be softening even more than usual at this time of year with the fuel shortages, gas prices and general malaise going around.

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On 9/17/2021 at 4:50 PM, HMC said:

I often like to look at old copies of motor sport from say the  early 60s-late 70s particularly the classifieds. It’s interesting to see what (that was considered a blue chip classic) was held in high esteem with a suitable price tag, larger ad etc; and what was a grainy small photo parked on a muddy bit of grass for a fraction of the price. The relative price differences then and now between different types and era of vehicle within a snapshot of time are often suprising.

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Circa 1971 - Is a cobra now just over twice the price of an xk140?

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That xk is still about- still the same colour but has lost the rear spats and gained the inevitable chromed wire wheels.

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Perhaps with a bigger market to draw on and smaller numbers, a genuine Shelby cobra now seems about 700k and an xk140 dhc about £125k.  

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56 minutes ago, HMC said:

Perhaps with a bigger market to draw on and smaller numbers, a genuine Shelby cobra now seems about 700k and an xk140 dhc about £125k

I've always said that the XK haven't gone up in value as much as they should have, given their pedigree. Especially compared to the E-Type.

I think the original photo showed wire wheels, just hard to tell.

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9 minutes ago, SiC said:

I've always said that the XK haven't gone up in value as much as they should have, given their pedigree. Especially compared to the E-Type.

I think the original photo showed wire wheels, just hard to tell.

They're a bit shit though, aren't they. 120s look nice but aren't very practical or particularly fast, and they're worth lots of money. 140s look shit and aren't very quick, so aren't worth loads. 150s look okay but only the S is properly fast - and they're worth loads. Annoying, as I really liked the 150S I drove (battleship grey, spats, steels, original paint and interior) but it was just a tiny bit out of budget...

1 hour ago, cort1977 said:

I disagree (politely), there are plenty of people like us who just like various cars because the engineering or history interests them but what drives the market are people who are collecting what they couldn't have when young like XR3s and so on.  They will buy the best with no real concern on price and then plenty of others jump on that rising market and ask inflated prices.

Does seem logical that the lower end of the market will be softening even more than usual at this time of year with the fuel shortages, gas prices and general malaise going around.

Also politely, XR3s etc aren't really 'the market' - the most expensive cars in the world are all 60 or more years old, often much older

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43 minutes ago, barrett said:

They're a bit shit though, aren't they. 120s look nice but aren't very practical or particularly fast, and they're worth lots of money. 140s look shit and aren't very quick, so aren't worth loads. 150s look okay but only the S is properly fast - and they're worth loads. Annoying, as I really liked the 150S I drove (battleship grey, spats, steels, original paint and interior) but it was just a tiny bit out of budget...

You're going to be a better judge than me, given (iirc) it's your day job and you have more experience of them first hand - especially driving. In terms of being a bit shit, surely compared to other stuff of the similar era, they're pretty decent? Of course the usual that all are a bit shit (especially on paper) compared to similar stuff from the next decade, likewise that decade being a bit shit compared compared to the decade after.

I'd dig any of them and I think they all look good. Admittedly, me being me and even if I had the money to not, I'd be rocking around one that's bit of an old nail. Like this

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Also interesting of note (to me) that the guy who owned that looked to be in his 50s. That would have been 30-40 years old when he was 18. Similar sort of age to MGBs when I was 18 and I started noticing them.

A car that definitely would have been before his time - even taking into account errors in my age prediction of him.

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16 minutes ago, barrett said:

Yep, well, I'm 35 and the best car I've ever has was made in 1923. Admittedly I'm an outlier, but there are plenty of others like me - enough to ensure Vintage stuff will never be worthless for at least as long as petrol is available to private motorists

Aye.... I'm 64 and the 'best car/grin - per - £' I ever had was built when I was 6!

ToMM© was a bit of a rocket.... But, still, all the time I owned it I never did 7k upchanges/tyresmoker.

SuziQ however, @993cc, is WOT everywhere 😎

*I love IMPs me

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40 minutes ago, barrett said:

Yep, well, I'm 35 and the best car I've ever has was made in 1923. Admittedly I'm an outlier, but there are plenty of others like me - enough to ensure Vintage stuff will never be worthless for at least as long as petrol is available to private motorists

Same age as me. A few additional thoughts.

As above, there is not really that many old cars left especially the older you get. Enough for us outliers imo. But possibly not enough if more people get hooked into older cars. The older I get, the older the cars that seem to interest me and I don't think I'm a complete outlier in that regard. The pool isn't increasing apart from projects that are dug out. But the skills, knowledge and tech to recreate parts isn't completely dieing out and in some cases is improving while becoming more readily available (e.g. 3D printing, laser cutting, CNC machining)

Secondly I have noticed plenty of Millennials at car meets - especially Haynes Breakfast Meet. Many are driving in older cars. Admittedly not so many pre-war cars but there is less of them about anyway. Looking at the age of the person taking photos of cars that interest them is also interesting. Definitely interest in classics from all generations, especially Gen Z and us Millennials. Can't see that going anyway soon. Those that are interested in older cars won't necessarily be stuck in one era either. The fact they're looking/owning cars that are far older with little sentimental attachment will, I imagine, lead then to explore all eras.

Idea of the Haynes breakfast meet and what turns up here in their FB group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/530159797641538/

The pre-war Rollers, Bentley's and such are owned by older gentleman but that's understandable given the cost expenditure to not only buy but also run such a machine.

Finally I'm not fearful of us not ever getting fuel. You can already buy specialist exotic race fuel and the like online and couriered to your house. Expensive admittedly but still is possible.

One thing that strikes me over all the E10 shinagians and scaremongering is that the classic car industry should not be fighting it. If anything the classic groups should be investigating higher ethanol contents and how to run older engines on it. If in half a century time we've stopped extracting oil in any quantity, there will have to be alternative sources. Sugar beat, corn kernels and the like are always going to be grown. All possible to be converted into pure Ethanol. There is an argument for wether it's right to convert it into fuels but that's a different argument. If there is a demand and legislation doesn't prohibit it, then it will be converted into different products. So in a Dino juice free future, to continue running our rattly lumps may need to be converted to run off straight Ethanol.

There is talk from Porsche, et al of synthetic fuels. However given how easy it is to grow crops that can be converted to Ethanol, I find it hard that they will be competitive against it.

TVO is a good example where the original fuel has disappeared from general availability long ago. Those that run equipment from it have had to find other methods of creating roughly equivalent.

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2 hours ago, barrett said:

They're a bit shit though, aren't they. 120s look nice but aren't very practical or particularly fast, and they're worth lots of money. 140s look shit and aren't very quick, so aren't worth loads. 150s look okay but only the S is properly fast - and they're worth loads. Annoying, as I really liked the 150S I drove (battleship grey, spats, steels, original paint and interior) but it was just a tiny bit out of budget...

Also politely, XR3s etc aren't really 'the market' - the most expensive cars in the world are all 60 or more years old, often much older

The XK140 are very nice. I used to have one. They are pretty fast - 130+ if in a good state - but of course the dial of what is performance has moved on since...1954 which was when mine was made...the thing that inhibited fast use was the drum brakes and their propensity  to fade fad fa f.....

They of course have the coolest boot badge of any car...

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If you get the chance to drive one I would recommend  it...they are very special. And if one came up affordable jump at the chance to own one. 

These days they can have aftermarket discs fitted...so you stand a chance of survival...

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2 hours ago, barrett said:

Also politely, XR3s etc aren't really 'the market' - the most expensive cars in the world are all 60 or more years old, often much older

Surely there's a market for more or less anything, how you segment it is up to you.  I suppose i was talking about the British sub-10k market SiC was referring to in his posts but the cars at the likes of Pebble Beach are much older agreed.  Arguably, those cars would be better segmented with fine art or property as investments though.

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I'm not sure there are many on this group that are buying £1m+ cars.

However, the largest growing market has to be 80s cars now? I mean, Escort Mk1s and so on appear to be hitting a high. Now us folks in their late 40s and 50s are pushing the prices up on your Lancia Delta Integrales (which are going up stupidly) and even now the 90s Scoobies are going back up in value.

I bought my MR2 Roadster simply because I loved the shape of them at the time and could have arguably afforded one. However, at the time, I'd just had my second child and a family car, they're not.

I do think many of us buy "modern classics" because they were cars we always wanted at the time.

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