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Classic cars that are depreciating


Rustycarlover
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8 minutes ago, SiC said:

Everyone told me I'd hate my MG BGT and that they're a load of shit. Out of all the many cars I've owned and driven, its still my favourite. What is interesting is to see many other Millennials like me who love their MGBs too.

With you on that. People turn their nose up at Bs, but they are really rather enjoyable in their own little way.

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1 minute ago, The_Equalizer said:

With you on that. People turn their nose up at Bs, but they are really rather enjoyable in their own little way.

I reckon if they were stopped being sold by 1970, they'd be worth a lot more and be more desirable. But they didn't and it means I can afford to buy one. Mine is the "less desirable" early 70s rather than a 60s car, but that meant it was substantially less for essentially the same car.

The reality is they sold a lot of them for a reason. That reason being they're actually pretty good cars!

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1 hour ago, sierraman said:

I’ve never driven an E-type but I can imagine they are absolutely dreadful, heavy, expensive to restore, unreliable etc. In effect buying one now it’s a museum piece for the main part.

Neither have I, yet! I remain  hopeful , or at least wildly optimistic!

45 minutes ago, SiC said:

Its about the experience. Anything similar priced or even far less will be more competent in every way. But that is not the point?

Pretty much it for me - YMMV. Mine get used for the tip and  school run as much as my modern hack but it's so much more fun and interesting. Bonus of a slightly  rare car at the tip if I do several trips in the day is I dont get id/address checked because " here comes that sad car wally/bore just wave him thru or he wont shut up about many old beige cars"   . Literally tens of seconds saved....

35 minutes ago, Dick Longbridge said:

I can only assume I'm in the minority with my opinions though, as GT6 prices have gone crazy over the last decade.

 

2 years ago I wistfully looked, I knew I couldn't afford  an E type. Well not a running,  working even vaguely beat up one k wnt straight to GT6's and was pretty astounded at prices for total basket cases let alone nice ish ones.

I did physically look at an E type 2 months ago - it was 2 miles from me so... 🤷‍♂️  The old bent selling it wanted 30k for it and I could see another 10 in it before it was even drivable  and on the road for essentially  the same experience as my  same vintage XJ6 (same engine, same 3 speed badermatic, same front and rear suspension, same dash layout, even the same sodding colour) but in a 2+2 frumpy E type body . I did some quick shite maths and  I could maybe 4 or 5 times as much motoring disasters for the same money as my least favorite  E type

 

I was mooching earlier looking for an interior light for my FD and this came up. I'm not sure of previous prices but I'd say the buyer of this last December got a bargain.

https://www.historics.co.uk/buying/auctions/2020-12-12/cars/ref-39-1965-vauxhall-victor-101-jt/

I wouldnt say there are deprecating classics but if you are willing to search a little and consider lesser known models  you can still find decent interesting stuff that obscure enough to be a bargain.  

 

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A bad E-Type is all the things you don't want. A nice one is a total joy.

I've been looking after a Series 1, 4.2, fhc. Not only does it look perfect (to me), it drives beautifully. Effortless power, no rattles or clonks, light controls etc. 

There's a lot of baggy, tarted up stuff out there that needs £30k of expenditure to get it up to the right level. 

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12 hours ago, MrBiscuits said:

I consider myself very lucky that I did the Mini thing in my teens/early 20's. Back then (late 90's/ noughties) you could get a presentable runner with MOT for £4-500. They weren't really depreciating even then - I broke even or made a profit on all three of mine. Of course that's ignoring the fact that they needed constant repair and all ended up practically rebuilt 😀.

Would love another, and to be honest it wouldn't be a bad investment but sadly I can't comprehend spending that sort of money on something that rusts & wears out so fast and is so easily stolen.

So much this. Back in the 80s, in my mid-teens, my mate and I bought an 1973  reg Mini 850 for £50. As you can imagine, it was completely shot and we spent much of our time filling the holes with plastic padding and taking the bus to the local scrappies (who in those days would sell you a part for a couple of quid "Take what you need off the car, we'll do a deal when you're done") 🤣
Ran great though.

But here's the point, you could start it with my front door key. You could open it with pretty much any BL key - it wasn't fussy, but that bit needed to be kind-of the right shape.


Ironically, at that point, it was only 12 years old. Imagine getting a 2009 car with 50k on that's absolutely full of holes and falling to bits. There aren't many cars that fit that bill, but back then, many everyday cars weren't expected to last 10 years.

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Celebrity associations-

an era passes and people are less in the spotlight. Or historic behaviour is exposed and their name and reputation is destroyed. (That Range Rover carawagon?)

 

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19 minutes ago, HMC said:

Celebrity associations-

an era passes and people are less in the spotlight. Or historic behaviour is exposed and their name and reputation is destroyed. (That Range Rover carawagon?)

 

When Paul Newman's Rolex Daytona watch sold for 17 million dollars a few years ago it did make me think in 20 years who's going to remember who Paul Newman is?

in 20 years why would anyone pay 17 million dollars for the watch of the guy who made salad dressing?

 

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The cars that may appear to be deprecating are probably those that are better placed to ride out the current bubble. The van craze may well die out when everybody goes back to work and realises life on the road is generally pretty shit outside of Instagram. The 80s hot stuff market has gone crazy, but these are generally badly made and often ugly cars with fairly crap performance. An E-Type is an eternal, a lowered Ford with some stickers on it is not. In terms of the AS cars bubble there are cars I fancy which have been up for sale for literally years now - one day the sellers will have to realise their losses. Things like the MGB will have a steady market - probably not appreciating much but also most likely not depreciating, there will always be men in their 50s with some spare cash and spare weekends wanting one.

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I think a lot of dealers have puffed up prices on mediocre stuff that doesn't ever sell or eventually is sold at some knock down price. There'll always be demand for rare and low mileage stuff as white room companies like KGF can convince people with lots of money and investment portfolios a mk3 Escort 1600i is worth 60 grand. 

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2 hours ago, TheOtherStu said:

So much this. Back in the 80s, in my mid-teens, my mate and I bought an 1973  reg Mini 850 for £50. As you can imagine, it was completely shot and we spent much of our time filling the holes with plastic padding and taking the bus to the local scrappies (who in those days would sell you a part for a couple of quid "Take what you need off the car, we'll do a deal when you're done") 🤣
Ran great though.

But here's the point, you could start it with my front door key. You could open it with pretty much any BL key - it wasn't fussy, but that bit needed to be kind-of the right shape.


Ironically, at that point, it was only 12 years old. Imagine getting a 2009 car with 50k on that's absolutely full of holes and falling to bits. There aren't many cars that fit that bill, but back then, many everyday cars weren't expected to last 10 years.

I can imagine it if it's a Ka.

My mother's friend was married to a doctor, they always bought new cars and looked after them, but by 1983 her 1970 Clubman was fairly well worn. Her husband had a new Bluebird estate in 1975 in tangerine yellow, with blue tinted windows and fake woodgrain on the sides. I had to visit them in 1990, and by some miracle that car was immaculate, and completely rust free.

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4 minutes ago, willswitchengage said:

The cars that may appear to be deprecating are probably those that are better placed to ride out the current bubble. The van craze may well die out when everybody goes back to work and realises life on the road is generally pretty shit outside of Instagram. The 80s hot stuff market has gone crazy, but these are generally badly made and often ugly cars with fairly crap performance. An E-Type is an eternal, a lowered Ford with some stickers on it is not. In terms of the AS cars bubble there are cars I fancy which have been up for sale for literally years now - one day the sellers will have to realise their losses. Things like the MGB will have a steady market - probably not appreciating much but also most likely not depreciating, there will always be men in their 50s with some spare cash and spare weekends wanting one.

I agree with that the MGB has a big following with great parts availability so demand for them keeps the prices steady but the sheet volume of them out there counters that and keeps the prices relatively low.

I really like the look of the MGB but I would like one with a mk1 mx5 engine in please.

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8 minutes ago, cort16 said:

I really like the look of the MGB but I would like one with a mk1 mx5 engine in please.

Whilst we're on the subject, and it's a bit beyond chod and other shite, but what's people's views on restomods?

I know of an absolutely stonking Hakosuka with an RB26 engine and running gear. Externally and on the interior, looks like a pristine 1971 car. When you look more closely and under the bonnet, it's absolutely bonkers power wise.

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Having driven an E-Type and an MGB roadster i can confirm that i was happier in the B.  Both of these cars were clients vehicles and i think the overhanging "value/worth" of the E-Type possibly spoilt the experience for me somewhat.

What was overwhelmingly obvious from the both was how very of their time their performance was. I feel similar pain now in my 69 Mini MK2 850, this thing terrifies me joining dual carriageways as it's just so slow compared to everything else on the road these days. Not too bad once you've got it up to speed but then i'm very much aware that any accident at 50mph+ is dental records territory.

001(90).jpg

 

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4 minutes ago, TheOtherStu said:

Whilst we're on the subject, and it's a bit beyond chod and other shite, but what's people's views on restomods?

I know of an absolutely stonking Hakosuka with an RB26 engine and running gear. Externally and on the interior, looks like a pristine 1971 car. When you look more closely and under the bonnet, it's absolutely bonkers power wise.

If it's something super rare I'd prefer it was left alone. If it's something like and MGB I like modifications to the engine and suspension etc but prefer they look stock outside. I think old cars, which have been overly modernised can look terrible. 

People like singer and RUF can make a completely new carbon fibre 911 body shell with 1000 changes from the 964 it's based on but it still looks at first glance like an old 911 and I think that's the secret. And also why the cost a million quid.

hero_1532981307.jpg?fit=1200,750

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3 minutes ago, cort16 said:

If it's something super rare I'd prefer it was left alone. If it's something like and MGB I like modifications to the engine and suspension etc but prefer they look stock outside. I think old cars, which have been overly modernised can look terrible. 

People like singer and RUF can make a completely new carbon fibre 911 body shell with 1000 changes from the 964 it's based on but it still looks at first glance like an old 911 and I think that's the secret. And also why the cost a million quid.

hero_1532981307.jpg?fit=1200,750

There's a very fine line between improving an old car, and turning it into some sort of grotesque caricature of itself (see countless tuning* projects). Not many manage to strike the right* balance*.

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7 minutes ago, cort16 said:

If it's something super rare I'd prefer it was left alone. If it's something like and MGB I like modifications to the engine and suspension etc but prefer they look stock outside. I think old cars, which have been overly modernised can look terrible. 

People like singer and RUF can make a completely new carbon fibre 911 body shell with 1000 changes from the 964 it's based on but it still looks at first glance like an old 911 and I think that's the secret. And also why the cost a million quid.

hero_1532981307.jpg?fit=1200,750

That's kinda the point. The Hakosuka that I mentioned above looks completely stock until you open the bonnet. If you saw it driving down the road and you're in your MGB, you might think you'd like to give it a race.

And the RB26 being the last Skyline engine, it's a nice nod, rather than using a K20 or something like that.

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26 minutes ago, TheOtherStu said:

That's kinda the point. The Hakosuka that I mentioned above looks completely stock until you open the bonnet. If you saw it driving down the road and you're in your MGB, you might think you'd like to give it a race.

And the RB26 being the last Skyline engine, it's a nice nod, rather than using a K20 or something like that.

This is going off topic a but the guy from driftworks had an automatic Lamborghini Murcielago LP640 and years ago started to manual convert it years ago.

During the manual conversation he also moved it over to an ITB intake manifold and designed reworked hubs to alter the suspension so he could fit a genuine race car GT1 carbon fibre body  kit.

The amount of modification required was incredible and no matter what you think of the car you have to admire someone who has the plums to chop up a 150 grand car even if you have deep pockets.

it's so heavily modified I've no idea what it could possibly be worth.

maxresdefault.jpg

Lamborghini-Murcielago-von-Driftworks-5.

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I think these days to restore a car DIY you’ve to either have some big plums or big pockets. My uncle did a Stag in the 90’s, coincides job, he did the lot bar the paint, stood him at a lot of money. It was a lovely thing but he said it was awful to drive. I think he sold it about a year after doing it at a huge huge loss. He’s one that can turn his hand to anything - people with the ability to do that are few and far between these days so I’d expect you’d either be farming it out at great expense or making a hash of it on the driveway. 

Perhaps this is what draws people to the cars that just want a bit of work or already good and the ‘barn finds’ stop in the barn. 

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20 minutes ago, LoftyvRS said:

I do like the Driftworks approach to stuff, they have an good eye for imagineering stuff. The work involved in that GT1 conversion was very indepth. 

 

Their E30 race car is a good example. The wheels base and everything was modified to try to make it handle better but you'd not know by looking at it. I'm still not sure why he used an M3 shell when a 318i would have done given all the rework they did to it. 

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4 hours ago, TheOtherStu said:

Whilst we're on the subject, and it's a bit beyond chod and other shite, but what's people's views on restomods?

I know of an absolutely stonking Hakosuka with an RB26 engine and running gear. Externally and on the interior, looks like a pristine 1971 car. When you look more closely and under the bonnet, it's absolutely bonkers power wise.

I'm all for upgrading an older car whilst keeping the feel of the original. I think it pisses off the rivet counters but fuck 'em. Why not have heater and wipers that actually work and an engine that starts? 

The only place my Manta project is online is here, I can't be fucked with beardy cunts with stains on their trousers telling me that a real Manta 400 has blah blah blah.

My standard response to this is "Man, you'll fucking hate the digi dash I'm fitting then"

I'm building it for me and no-one else.

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Its been mentioned, but prices are by and large driven by nostalgia and free cash pursuing a smaller number of available vehicles.

K11 prices are climbing for a good example. Honda 90’s? I mean whats that all about? The most produced bike in the world selling now for very nearly what the retailed as new and basket cases with a log book going for many hundreds. Seems only yesterday they were a tenner. But then when they were a tenner, so many of us had one and ragged the balls off them on wasteground. That’s why they are now popular again. Nostalgia.

Another 15 or so years and Chinese bikes will start to appreciate in value.
“Really Womble” I hear you cry?
Yes, really – remember when the Mini was a cheap banger – almost everyone’s first car. Remember when Mk2 Escrotes could be picked up for buttons? Remember when people looked at the Mk3 Fiesta and said “its ugly, it will never be a classic”?
Spool forward 20 years and look at the market.

Todays spotty Herberts razzing around on their Chingung Longdong 125 as their first bike to get them mobile and down to the chippy, to work, to their girlfriends or just off out into the wide world. Well there will come a time where they look back on that with fondness. They overlook the rust, shit build quality and chains made of cheese and think – “Id love another one of them”.

Then you come to the point where maybe a 100 middle aged blokes are chasing the last few remaining Chinlong 125’s in existence and the vendors think “I can charge a LOT for this…” And suddenly people think they are worth more than they were when new. That’s why Lada’s go for silly money now.

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3 minutes ago, UltraWomble said:

.....Todays spotty Herberts razzing around on their Chingung Longdong 125 as their first bike to get them mobile and down to the chippy, to work, to their girlfriends or just off out into the wide world. Well there will come a time where they look back on that with fondness. They overlook the rust, shit build quality and chains made of cheese and think – “Id love another one of them”.....

The idea that there might one day be a cottage industry rebuilding these things to a better* standard than what the Chinese factories achieved is amusing. 

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4 hours ago, Tadhg Tiogar said:

There's a very fine line between improving an old car, and turning it into some sort of grotesque caricature of itself (see countless tuning* projects). Not many manage to strike the right* balance*.

Agreed, m9.... My mitolla SuziQ is 3pot Auto!

I fervently believe that car with a *factory 1.6 16V (.... keeping Auto) would have me dead (BUT what a fucking smile!!)

Oarses 4coarses 🚘

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5 hours ago, willswitchengage said:

The cars that may appear to be deprecating are probably those that are better placed to ride out the current bubble. The van craze may well die out when everybody goes back to work and realises life on the road is generally pretty shit outside of Instagram. The 80s hot stuff market has gone crazy, but these are generally badly made and often ugly cars with fairly crap performance. An E-Type is an eternal, a lowered Ford with some stickers on it is not. In terms of the AS cars bubble there are cars I fancy which have been up for sale for literally years now - one day the sellers will have to realise their losses. Things like the MGB will have a steady market - probably not appreciating much but also most likely not depreciating, there will always be men in their 50s with some spare cash and spare weekends wanting one.

Its worth looking at the cars either side of the E-Type. 

The XJ-S Mk 1 with plastic bumpers and dash is very nice..I had one. Great fun...the later ones were gussied up.

The XK140 and 150 are still not crazy crazy money in FHC form and are an easier fix than an E. I had a 140. They can be uprated to make them safer these days - 200+bhp on drum brakes was not much stopping power.

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5 hours ago, LoftyvRS said:

Having driven an E-Type and an MGB roadster i can confirm that i was happier in the B.  Both of these cars were clients vehicles and i think the overhanging "value/worth" of the E-Type possibly spoilt the experience for me somewhat.

What was overwhelmingly obvious from the both was how very of their time their performance was. I feel similar pain now in my 69 Mini MK2 850, this thing terrifies me joining dual carriageways as it's just so slow compared to everything else on the road these days. Not too bad once you've got it up to speed but then i'm very much aware that any accident at 50mph+ is dental records territory.

001(90).jpg

 

That's quite lovely but I understand your concern. Luckily my 1000 has a whole 39 horses (or at least it did in 1970), so my only problem is not having a headlamp flasher to get those pesky Audi R8s out of my way on the M6

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