What makes a car nice to drive?

[barefoot]

 

As @NorfolkNWeigh recently said in another post;

"That’s a a surprisingly nice car to drive, isn’t it.  I got it for one of my daughters from an actual hairdresser in , I think Nuneaton. It was always reliable and we only got rid  of it because the  back window started falling out and water started falling in...

Here it is this time last year in Mid-Wales, the last time it was used by us".

But what is it that actually makes a car 'nice to drive'. I asked a friend who without hesitation told me that it was torque...

I wasn't convinced by that and think that one of the primary things is that it must be capable of being driven smoothly without too much effort. My little old Scirocco is probably a nicer, smoother car to drive overall than my 944, which despite having about three times the power is dreadful to drive in slow moving traffic, but is a revelation & a joy to power through an empty roundabout with merely a flick of the wrist. 

I'm going to start the ball rolling by asking for a smooth gearchange and/or transmission, but I stand to be corrected. 

 

[New POD]

If you cpuld bottle the handling of a gen1 Bini, and the comfort of an omega, the effortless low down torque of a v8 diesel. Make it sound like a tesla, and that would be great.

Transmission would be automatic, with flappy paddles when you want to drive a racing car. 

 

[dollywobbler]

Depends what you mean by 'nice.' A car with a tiny, torque-less engine can be an absolute hoot if you want to push on a bit, but quickly becomes very tiring on a longer trip. It's why the GSA is only very nearly a brilliant cruising machine.

But what makes the Fairmont so delicious on a 'blimey I'm knackered and just want to get home' mission is the plentiful low-down torque. It never feels like it's really trying, and that's something you just don't get even with multi-cylinder European cars. Maybe there really is no replacement for displacement after all. 

Comfort is important too. A car that jars really does ruin a longer journey, as my recent experience in an Audi A2 confirmed.

[robinmasters]

Big comfy seats, a large capacity engine with more than four cylinders, and a proper (not a robotised manual) automatic gearbox. 

That's nice though. Fun has very different criteria.

[Asimo]

Steering feel. You’ve got to have good steering, it is the only car control that you use all of the time.
After that, every aspect of comfort: seats, space, ride, visibility, noise.

How well the other major controls work with you.
 Ambience; has to be a nice place to sit. This is highly subjective and very personal.
If a car can’t be silent, then it’s noises should please rather than grate and annoy.

Grip? Power? Only ever needs to be adequate for what you are doing.

 

[colino]

My first 944 was heavily modified, more like a road legal track car and it was nice. After a long day working at the other end of the country its precision feel and ability to know if a coin was face up or down if I drove over it so tight and responsive was the steering, tyres and suspension wasn't so nice.  Just bloody tiresome.  My current Jaguar S type always starts, goes like the clappers if I want to, but is always comfy.  That is nice.

[HMC]

Nicely weighted clutch pedal and gear selection. Nothing ruins an otherwise ok drive for me more than something that’s got an unpleasant clutch feel. I find rover 75 diesel manuals are guilty of this. I had a phase 1 v70 manual back to back and that was fantastic by comparison in that department.

[Split_Pin]

I agree with the comments on torque, light controls, a nice interior.

'Must be able to be driven smoothly without much effort sums it up for me.

I can forgive some things in favour of others.  The Cavalier 1.7 TD engine is gutless as it has the long ratio box for motorway cruising, but I still like driving it because it has comfy seats on a long journey, all controls are light and smooth and the suspension is very soft but it still corners predictably. All round visibility  is superb as well, best of any car I've driven bar the Audi with the roof down.

The 75 autobox just makes the engine wail away in 1st and 2nd whilst not offering much in the way of propulsion which is deeply, deeply irritating but once you hit 3rd the torque takes over and it flies, so I can forgive it.

The Civics low profile tyres spoil the ride a bit but the torque, whilst not available at very low revs, still kicks in about 1500rpm and it kicks you in the back with no fuss or effort required. The diesel engine is very refined as well.

[Soundwave]

For me - steering needs to have a decent heft to it, but not be so heavy it becomes a chore to park. Also not be so light that it feels like the wheel isn't connected to anything. My modern daily Fabia is somewhat overassisted on that front, my MX5 and its PAS setup seems to have the balance down perfectly.

Oh, and a proper (ie: manual) gearbox. I'm meant to be driving the car, if I wanted to be a passenger I'd get an Uber.

[Rust Collector]

I think it's horses for courses on this one, as 'nice' will depend on what you're doing day in and day out. But if I had to pick only one car then being that I live somewhere semi-rural and with off road parking so car size isn't a worry, I have a dog, tools to lug around and we often go on road trips then I'd be looking at something with 5+ cylinders, somewhere between 2 and 3 litre engine, auto box, older style PAS with some feel to it, estate body, nice comfy seats and air conditioning. A W210/S210 E240 would probably be a good shout as my E430 is brilliant but let down by fuel efficiency that means you almost always choose to drive something more economical when you go on a day out. Would I find the same car nice if I lived by myself in a busy city centre and did almost all my driving there? Probably not 😅

[tooSavvy]

...... Fuel Card (someone else's!)

🥰

[Spurious]

I suppose this is entirely subjective but for me, it seems to mirror quite a lot of folk here. 

• A bit of torque
• Not screaming at motorway speeds
• Comfortable seats 
• Comfortable ride, but somehow handles okay 
• A bit of character
• Not daylight robbery at the fuel pumps. 

Which makes the big 5 cylinder Audi a nice proposition. Except it'll understeer if provoked. 

Now the smol Suzuki Jimny has some of those attributes. It's got bags of character. It's not got much comfort but it's built to do a couple of things really well. Which I like. It's also stupidly easy to do general service work on and that's 'nice' about a car.  Having a engine bay which is jammers and you can't change an oil filter without being an ambidextrous, double jointed 6 year old isn't nice at all

I suppose a car having character can cause me to easily overlook other flaws. 

[anonymous user]

As already mentioned, it depends so much on what you propose to use it for.

Although if you look at some of the car adverts I think it has to give you a feeling of innate superiority and smugness, plus have the right badge on it. Nothing else matters.

[TheOtherStu]

Nice to drive?

A comfortable seat. Smooth steering. Torque and power when you need it, but no more than necessary. A smooth automatic gearbox. Cruise control (that's easy to use). Some nice speakers. Seat warmers on a cold day. Soft suspension. Keyless start.

Basically everything my BMW company jalopy has. It's nice. Safe.

 

But let's be honest, it's boring.

Now if you asked me what's fun to drive?

No mod cons. Responsive manual gearbox. Power and speed. Hard springs. No softeners or door insulation or anything that's going to make the car heavy. Pretty much nothing in the list above.

And that's why I have the weekend MR2 Roadster. No frills. Bodywork finished by Mad Max.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

Expectation.

That Beetle isn’t particularly good at anything, but I was expecting it to be horrible and it’s not. Comfy , smooth not fast but doesn’t pretend to be sporty. Something I’ve found with a few VWs , to be honest.

In my job I get to drive some nice cars and sometimes I’m  disappointed , one that stands out was when a client said “ As long as the weather doesn’t look too bad we”ll take the Aston not the Bentayga” I was driving him to Cheltenham Races then to Nottingham for a Christmas Party then home to Milton Keynes. I was like a kid, checking the weather forecast before bed then waking up early excited that there was no snow forecast. And…

It was shit, didn’t help that it was a very wet day. The fastest I drove all day was to and from his house in my e220 with less than a 1/3 of the power. Uncomfortable, unstable, noisy, annoying ergonomics. The only time I enjoyed it was parking and looking back at it , hoping people thought I was James Bond. I’ve since driven it shorter distances in better conditions and enjoyed it, but only because it’s hard not enjoy anything with 600 odd bhp.

I enjoy driving my Test and Trace Renault Master too, again comfort and torque factor quite highly.

I had an e61 530d that suited me perfectly but the once I drove an e60 M5 V10, I was bitterly disappointed 

[big_al_granvia]

there is no such thing as the perfect car, the one car that does all the jobs well, take our fleet; volvo v70 d5 auto, motorways great cruises and does 43mpg, you can doss in it at a push, carries 4 adults and luggage in comfort, totally shit on a b road. Then we have the subaru forester turbo, handles like an impreza, goes like stink, welded to the wet tarmac but fuk all headroom for me, i cant get comfy driving it. There is the civic type s, handles well, plenty of power and torque, great gearchange, a proper hot hatch which means you feel every bump going through your spine, better driving position than the scooby. Finally the granvia, its a van on torsion bars, great in a straight line, super to sleep in an use as a camper, can take out the seats and it carries anything, just dont go round corners, it makes the volvo look like a racecar

easy to see why us shiters have large fleets of chod

[willswitchengage]

Correlation between me depressing a pedal and something actually happening. I am on my third XUD engined vehicle now and all are the equivalent of a leg-press workout to accelerate. If I hop into another car, me trying to feather the throttle sends revs to 6000 rpm immediately. Petrol cars tend to have 'lighter' throttles and most I've driven are pretty accurate too - i.e. no slack in the cable. It varies quite a bit but most moderns I've driven with electronic throttles (petrols here) have an annoying noticeable lag between pressing with my foot and the engine doing something. Light clutches are nice too.

[egg]

I'd turn the question round, everything is nice to drive that doesn't have some fatal flaw that you're always noticing. 

But to undermine myself, the car I disliked to drive most was my Ford Fusion. No major flaws, just you felt it was the early Escort MK5 of the noughties. 

[Matty]

Control weightings. Pedals can be heavy or light in operation, doesn't bother me, but they all have to be the same. That in combination with good response to the use of them (throttle response, progressive clutch, linear brakes). I had a laguna 2 2litre petrol for a bit in a desperate moment. Lag in throttle response coupled with a clutch that bit very low in the travel made it a fucking hateful thing. At the opposite end of the scale, the old 20vt golf I've just weighed in was an absolute pleasure. Beautiful throttle response (early one so still on a cable) coupled with well judged pedal weightings and a lovely positive gear change made it a constant joy. 

I've had much nicer things in better nick, but that was a really nice car to operate, even at 23 years/190000 miles old.

[Angrydicky]

I don’t like:

Cars that ‘bong’ constantly at you. That’s most modern cars.

Heavy clutches (already mentioned, French cars are usually bad for this)

Over-servoed brakes like my sister’s 2010 Fiesta. Most modern cars? I don’t know because I don’t think I’ve had the pleasure* of driving anything else modern.

Hard seats and ride (that’s most modern cars again).

My lovely Rover 620 doesn’t have any of the above, which is great. It has proper power steering too (hydraulically powered and with a nice ‘feel’ to it).

TL:DR- ORL MODERNZ R SHIT

 

 

[willswitchengage]

What even is the sweet spot for clutches?

Rover - the bottom. Always feels nice and strong but requires a leg workout. First car, Skoda Fabia, had it right at the top. Felt like it was about to slip constantly but apparently it was 'self adjusting'. Encouraged lazy behaviours where I'd feather the clutch when changing gear, so I'd often cba and crunch it.

[HMC]

What mood are you in? Sometimes I want discretion , other times I might want something that’s a challenge,or even a bit scary.

 At the moment I quite like the rover 75 I’ve got, despite the irritating clutch; so basically I would imagine that says I’m officially middle aged.

[Matty]

5 minutes ago, willswitchengage said:

What even is the sweet spot for clutches?

Rover - the bottom. Always feels nice and strong but requires a leg workout. First car, Skoda Fabia, had it right at the top. Felt like it was about to slip constantly but apparently it was 'self adjusting'. Encouraged lazy behaviours where I'd feather the clutch when changing gear, so I'd often cba and crunch it.

Defo progression. I have to drive everything from wagons to cars and heavy or light clutch pedals are both a joy in their own way as long as they're progressive in their action.

[RayMK]

I've had a couple of cars which had silky smooth engines, one manual (BMW520i E28) and one slush box automatic (Nissan QX/Maxima). Both were comfortable and handled well, the BMW considerably better than the Nissan off motorways. Despite this plush, untroubled comfort the interiors had nothing to interest me and progress was devoid of character.  A Citroen CX GTi Turbo 2 that I had for about a year was immensely impressive and had character but still did not give me enough of the ellusive 'niceness.'  Strangely, it is the rear engined Skodas of the Rapid, Estelle 105 and  120  variety that I always regard as the nicest cars to drive, based on ownership of two Rapids and one each of the other two. The strangeness continues though. It was the lowly 105 which I found nicest. It had a combination of willingness, resilient suspension, nice engine sounds and mildly oversteering and engaging handling on its swing axle rear end. The niceness remained intact on long trips at home and abroad. I dislike understeer and have never had a problem with Skoda's handling even when driven rapidly.  Clearly, niceness is, as many have pointed out, in the mind of the beholder, a bit like beauty.

[sutty2006]

Anyone mentioned conveniently placed cup holders yet? 

[Asimo]

30 minutes ago, sutty2006 said:

Anyone mentioned conveniently placed cup holders yet? 

Cup holders only matter when you have stopped driving.

[bunglebus]

Nice is hard to define. My old VW van never failed to put a smile on my face when I drove it, but it was tiring to do more than a couple of hours behind the wheel.

My 5 was also quite a grin machine as it weighed about as much as a wet fart, so I could wazz it around the lanes easily and wasn't actually a bad motorway car either if you didn't want to get there yesterday.

Passat is really good at what it does, comfortable, quiet, economic, reliable and the roadholding is good - but lacks enough steering feedback to really feel confident. I could drive it all day, and have.

I love the way 70s Escorts drive, steering, clutch and feedback are fantastic - but not made for motorways.

Best all rounder I've experienced were E30 BMWs, ergonomics are almost spot on and they're fantastic to hustle along and will eat up motorway miles, but you have to chose between fair economy but underpowered 4 pots or decent power thirsty 6s. 

Don't think there's a perfect car, but if I could tweak the steering on my Passat so it gave me a decent level of feedback I reckon it would be close for me.

[Six-cylinder]

1 hour ago, HMC said:

What mood are you in? Sometimes I want discretion , other times I might want something that’s a challenge, or even a bit scary.

For me it is the variety I like best. 

Just like HMC my mood changes and I am lucky enough to be able to select a car from my own fleet.

Why would I drive to Europe in a Visa Diesel when I have  so many on paper better cars to drive.

 

[Jikovron]

For me the litmus test is whether a car can come to a T junction and power out smoothly and urgently without bogging down and with potential need to instant downshift not being held up by reluctant controls causing jerky progress etc as usually you end up having to awkwardly stop as the car is too shit to avoid someone angrily tailgating you ! 

[TrabbieRonnie]

The A8 is my perfect a-road commuter car.  This goes against the grain a wee bit, as I have usually put character above all else.  The big Audi does have some (V8 gives it something), but in the main it is just a very competent machine.  I do look back at it once parked though...

The inside is really lovely, and with an amazing stereo, the work stress really does melt away on the 25-mile road home.  

The wee Audi Coupe, just brings out the hooligan in me, it roars along and darts through bends lovely.  When you park up and open the door, it reeks of hot engine too... bootiful.  It's an auto, but not a fancy one, so you decide the gear with your right foot.  The V6 can spin the front tyres whenever you want, and the leaky (awesome sounding) exhaust encourages this yobbishness too!

However, I am truly happiest driving the Surf, and there is nothing better than trundling along at 55, boot full of bikes/dogs, sunroof open with your arm on the window sill.  Fun for the summer, and unbelievable in the winter, and to my eye, the best looking 'jeep'.  The interior is plain but really comfy, stereo still good... and it always just works.  I wish it was less rusty, but wouldn't change anything else.