Supernaut's Cars - 323i / Megane

[Supernaut]

MAP sensor replaced.

Perfect idling restored.

Result!

[loserone]

Winner! 

[Supernaut]

It's dead (again), Jim.

Wouldn't start this morning. The new intake air temperature sensor arrived today though, so I put that in.

 

Now it starts after a bit of cranking then misfires like fuck.

 

 

The fuel economy on it is great though. If it doesn't work it can't burn any fuel! Genius engineering solution by Renault, there.

I will admit, a tiny tiny bit of plastic off the old intake air temperature sensor may have fallen in and gotten ingested. The engine seems to have just vaporised it, but it may have taken out a spark plug in the process...

[Split_Pin]

It'll just bounce about the top of the piston and then get spat out. Same happened to my old Corsa engine except it was a spark plug electrode. 

[bear-in-the-air]

You really aren't having much luck with that thing.

[Supernaut]

I have just replaced all 4 plugs on the Clio and confirmed that I've done no permanent damage to it. It runs on all 4.

Phew.

 

However, it seems to have gone back to its old tricks with the idle. It simply cuts out if I lift completely off the pedal when cold.

After replacing the ICV, the MAP sensor and the intake air temperature sensor, plus all the spark plugs... I'm back at square one.

I have kept all the old sensors and stuff, though. I'm not completely stupid. Stupid enough to buy a Clio, yes.

 

What I found intriguing is that if I hold the throttle so it's at an engine speed that should be a sensible idle speed; say, anywhere between about 900-1,100rpm it stutters. Almost like a misfire.

It runs silky smooth at any other engine speed though.

This says to me that the idle circuit is almost trying to do something but getting confused / failing.

 

Fuck knows. It's Friday afternoon and it's hot. I'm going to do something more productive like drinking.

 

 

I wonder how difficult a Speeduino would be. 🤣

Perhaps some bike carbs instead?

[PrinceRupert]

On 5/27/2023 at 2:09 PM, Split_Pin said:

It'll just bounce about the top of the piston and then get spat out. Same happened to my old Corsa engine except it was a spark plug electrode. 

Turns out it doesn't do that if you drop the carb retaining screw in the inlet manifold 🤣

@Supernaut glad no permanent damage, im sure the idle problem is solvable

[Split_Pin]

14 minutes ago, Supernaut said:

I'm going to do something more productive like drinking

Good plan! 

[Supernaut]

So.

I just had it idling (at 600rpm) and sprayed carb cleaner around the vacuum hoses. No leaks.

In a fit of enthusiasm / desperation I unplugged the throttle position sensor.

I still have to 'manually' set the idle speed by adjusting the ICV, buuut it idles noticeably more smoothly and is also more responsive.

 

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

[juular]

1 hour ago, Supernaut said:

In a fit of enthusiasm / desperation I unplugged the throttle position sensor

Does the TPS need to do a relearn procedure through some diagnostic software? I know on many cars when replacing anything to do with the throttle body a relearn is required.

[Supernaut]

15 minutes ago, juular said:

Does the TPS need to do a relearn procedure through some diagnostic software? I know on many cars when replacing anything to do with the throttle body a relearn is required.

I can't seem to find anything specific to Clios. I can give it a shot though, by turning on the ignition (but not the engine) and holding the throttle all the way down for 30 seconds or something.

A replacement TPS is very cheap and ubiquitous (a common theme with this car due to the basic engine design still being used to this day in many Dacias) so I've ordered one.

 

What's one more sensor thrown at this car in desperation anyway?

[Supernaut]

I fitted the new throttle position sensor to the Clio today.

It still cuts out when cold, but does so far more smoothly.

 

Well, at least it did something. Just not what I wanted.

 

Do Clios have a separate temperature sensor for the ECU then? The gauge shows the right reading.

Alternatively, there's a grub screw on the throttle body for adjusting it. The temptation is there to simply adjust that so it idles just fast enough to avoid cutting out then forget about it.

[Supernaut]

I ended up registering on cliosport.net and adding to the already vast number of threads about fast Clios that don't idle properly.

🤣

[Supernaut]

Now, I don't claim to know exactly what this wee screw does.

However, it seems to act as a very fine control of the idle speed. Handy.

I've messed around with it and sort of got it idling. At least I think it shouldn't just flat out die when it's cold. Before I touched it, it was wound all the way out. Barely hanging on by a thread. That's probably nae right.

[Supernaut]

Updates, hmm?

Ok.

 

I did a few hundred miles in the 323i last week, pissing about on the west coast of Scotland.

It was fun, apart from the offside handbrake deciding to fall apart... again.

A quick call to Autoaid saw a local mechanic from Portree come out within the hour and just remove the mechanism so I could be on my way.

 

It did this about this time last year, and I repaired it with repair washers. That's not going to fly this time...

So I bit the bullet and bought some new backing plates. Shiny!

I might get round to fitting them the week before FOTU as I plan to visit the farm then. Plenty of space and tools to do it. I won't be removing the driveshafts. I'll be cutting the backing plates to fit round.

I also have a fresh kit of springs and pins etc. as they cost peanuts anyway.

I've also got new rear discs still to arrive, and front discs in my cupboard that need fitted.

 

Clio news:

The Clio got a new battery yesterday, and it seems to have made friends.

Like a shit, off-hue Tricolore.

The new battery seems to have improved things slightly. I still need to start it from cold with a little bit of throttle pedal applied. However, I can lift off after only a few seconds.

I reckon something somewhere isn't adjusting the idle speed properly to compensate for the engine load. The fresh battery means the alternator isn't working so hard immediately after starting. It was definitely due as the old one was 11.7V! Whoops.

I suspect the wiring to the idle control valve may have somehow deteriorated. However, it basically works now. Even when properly warmed up and with the battery charged it idles at about 1k rpm. A tad high, as these are meant to idle at 750rpm when warm. However, in the world of vaguely quick Clios that's as good as perfect!

 

Sidenote:

I had a proper epic drive home in the 323i on Saturday night. Fort William to Stirling, only leaving Fort William at about 8pm.

Down through Glencoe and along the banks of Loch Lomond still in good daylight (because the sun barely sets in Scotland at this time of year). No music playing, windows down, the sound of it hitting VANOS echoing off the cliffsides in Glencoe. Hardly any other cars on the roads. Lovely.

The reason behind me driving home from Fort William at 8pm on a Saturday is because I was originally meant to do a roadtrip with some people I'd call acquaintances at best. I'd already spent several days out on holiday getting sunburned and eaten by midges, then these eejits turned up dressed like they were going to the gym and were hopped up on energy drinks. Combine that with the fact they were in cars far newer and more powerful than mine, and were driving like complete arsewipes, I decided I didn't have the energy. The overnight stop for Saturday was due to be in Plockton. When we were in Fort William I worked out I was equidistant from Plockton and Stirling, so took the latter option and was able to just chill out without clenching every time one of those morons went for an overtake.

[Noel Tidybeard]

On 06/06/2023 at 22:02, Supernaut said:

Do Clios have a separate temperature sensor for the ECU then? The gauge shows the right reading.

 

a 1.4 energy renner 19 has 2 so i don't see why not

[Supernaut]

1 hour ago, Noel Tidybeard said:

a 1.4 energy renner 19 has 2 so i don't see why not

Ah.

But.

How come a new battery has helped? By fitting a new battery I've reduced the load on the engine from the alternator on the first start of the day. To the point that I can lift off the pedal before I even get a reading on the temperature gauge.

Not only that, if I turn the steering while idling, the revs drop. If I turn on the A/C... you guessed it, the revs drop.

 

Last time I had this plugged into diagnostics (I don't have any myself) it said the idle circuit was inactive. Despite the new idle control valve and all the other sensors reading correctly.

It does seem a lot like the idle control circuit itself is faulty in some way. As opposed to... all the sensors... I replaced...

They weren't the newest sensors anyway. They were likely due soon! Right? Right.

[Noel Tidybeard]

the 19 used to idle high all the time but would run fine with temp sender unplugged- but unplugged meant crap cold start

[Supernaut]

23 minutes ago, Noel Tidybeard said:

the 19 used to idle high all the time but would run fine with temp sender unplugged- but unplugged meant crap cold start

Aha.

I shall need to do some more prodding.

When I try to find Clio temperature senders there's only one coolant temperature sensor and one intake air temperature sensor available, according to parts sites.

Parts sites aren't gospel, though.

[Noel Tidybeard]

on the energy the two sensors are side by side on gearbag end of engine

[Supernaut]

No photo update, as I didn't take any.

Over the past couple of weekends I have replaced the front, then the rear, discs on the BMW. I also cleaned and greased all the caliper sliders.

The pads on there are only a few months old, so I kept them (oh no, nuns and kittens etc).

The brakes are definitely smoother and more confidence inspiring.

I was checking it over yesterday before the journey to shitefest on Friday and managed to induce a slightly rubbery squeak from the front drivers side strut. I think I have found the noise from the front end...

 

 

The Clio is getting a pair of new tyres tomorrow. The ones on the rear are Ceat Spiders. Kwik Fit own brand dog shit, from 2010! They're 13 years old yet look brand new due to being made of the hardest rubber known to man. I had it completely sideways on wet roundabouts at about 15mph early last week.

I swapped the wheels around yesterday so the perfectly fine 2018 vintage Nexens are now on the rear, and the new Kumhos can go on the front.

In terms of idling, 320touring's diagnostic tablet still reckons the idle control valve has an open circuit fault. I suspect the wiring itself... The wiring that disappears under the engine.

It also apparently needs an oil pressure sensor too.

It may be making a visit to Clio Stu in the near future.

It's still flippin' hilarious to drive though.

[Supernaut]

Many thanks to @Tickman for letting me use his ramp this morning.

 

The plan was to do the diff oil, the gearbox oil and the front struts. We discovered this on the front offside though:

I have since ordered a pair of Bilstein front springs from Demon Tweeks, as they were by far the cheapest place for a pair of front springs.

We did still change the diff and gearbox oil though. I went for 3rd on the way home and had to double-check I'd actually got a gear as there was so little resistance. It definitely needed done!

[Supernaut]

[Supernaut]

Well then.

On Friday I finished my move back north. I now live on the family farm roughly 30 miles NW of Aberdeen.

The BMW is insured until midnight, and MOT'd until mid-October. It shall be getting SORNed tomorrow, and work on replacing the front struts and rebuilding the handbrake will commence sometime between now and Spring.

 

The Clio... I had essentially set the idle quite roughly myself, but in the colder weather it's trying to compensate by adding more fuel thus it's idling way too high again. I plugged an OBD reader into it yesterday and got a code for the idle air control valve...!

I put the old Magnetti Marelli one back in. No code but it runs like a bag of shit. The valve itself looks like an archaeological find though.

I've ordered a replacement Magnetti Marelli one for actual money rather than the cheapy £10-20 ones that seem to be DOA.

 

 

My head is in a better place though. Yesterday I looked at some areas where trees have been cut down. Today I looked at some vintage tractors with a friend, drank coffee, then came back here and helped dig a trench to run a water line to a trough. Plenty to keep me busy here, but I'll be on the hunt for part time work soon enough.

[Matty]

7 minutes ago, Supernaut said:

Well then.

On Friday I finished my move back north. I now live on the family farm roughly 30 miles NW of Aberdeen.

The BMW is insured until midnight, and MOT'd until mid-October. It shall be getting SORNed tomorrow, and work on replacing the front struts and rebuilding the handbrake will commence sometime between now and Spring.

 

The Clio... I had essentially set the idle quite roughly myself, but in the colder weather it's trying to compensate by adding more fuel thus it's idling way too high again. I plugged an OBD reader into it yesterday and got a code for the idle air control valve...!

I put the old Magnetti Marelli one back in. No code but it runs like a bag of shit. The valve itself looks like an archaeological find though.

I've ordered a replacement Magnetti Marelli one for actual money rather than the cheapy £10-20 ones that seem to be DOA.

 

 

My head is in a better place though. Yesterday I looked at some areas where trees have been cut down. Today I looked at some vintage tractors with a friend, drank coffee, then came back here and helped dig a trench to run a water line to a trough. Plenty to keep me busy here, but I'll be on the hunt for part time work soon enough.

Being at home makes a difference. Glad you feeling more upbeat.

[Supernaut]

Clio weirdness continues.

The actually expensive idle control valve arrived today.

It works! I start it from stone cold, it sits at 1,100rpm. Warms up and drops to 750rpm, and the revs even adjust to compensate for a load like turning the steering. Good stuff!

However... it runs lumpy AF when utilising the idle circuit. Like a vacuum leak.

It still goes like hell at anything above roughly 5% throttle once it's definitely off the idle circuit.

 

French cars, man. Wee bastards.

 

Oh and yes, I spent a good few minutes spraying highly volatile aerosols at all the places I suspected a vacuum leak and the revs didn't rise.

 

 

BMW is officially on SORN now, too. Goodnight sweet prince, see you in Spring (except for when I do stuff like the front suspension and free up some indoor storage and move it).

[reb]

4 hours ago, Supernaut said:

BMW is officially on SORN now, too. Goodnight sweet prince, see you in Spring (except for when I do stuff like the front suspension and turn it into a drift missile).

 

[Supernaut]

Today I decided to clean up the Clio's throttle body because why not?

Sum total effect: Eh, it still runs a tiny bit lumpy on idle. But hey, it's controlling its idle speed properly now thanks to the new ICV from yesterday.

It can continue to be lumpy on idle because HON HON HON.

 

I also put some proper time and effort into investigating why the screenwash has been so fucking intermittent the past couple of months.

Turns out the hose was getting pinched by the bonnet when it was closed. I re-routed it slightly and sorted it. While I was in there I decided to Craigslist rebuild the wiper arms as I had them off the car anyway.

 

 

I'm not sure if I have enough space to work on it comfortably though:

 

I've also been researching potential winter wheels for this small French nugget.

Renault are just awkward, aren't they? They use a 4x100 bolt pattern, and even a very similar offset to many other 4x100 cars... but they use a 60mm centre bore.

If it wasn't for that 60mm centre bore, wheels from Hondas, Suzukis, BINIs, and even Vauxhalls would bolt straight up to it. But they all use a 56mm centre bore instead. Gah.

Particularly annoying when there's a set of wheels off a Honda Jazz with some really good Dunlop winter tyres on them for sale locally for £70. No-go with that 56mm centre bore. Can I find any actual Renault wheels remotely locally? Can I fuck.

[Saabnut]

Renault wheels you say? I have 4 of these in 14" flavour which I had on a Yaris. Tyres are rubbish but the rims are good. Yours for the collecting, bring tyres when I am here and I will fit them for you.

[cort1977]

On 9/24/2023 at 6:05 PM, Supernaut said:

On Friday I finished my move back north. I now live on the family farm roughly 30 miles NW of Aberdeen.

Welcome back, hope it works out well for you.

As for wheels, buy something interesting and get them adjusted on a lathe?  Would need a pretty big agricultural lathe I suppose?