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Manchester clean air zone May 2022


Wack
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I'd heard they were planning to bring it in but thought it won't affect me , I can't remember the last time I drove my van through the city centre 

Wrong , it's massive, £10 a day for any commercial not euro 6 compliant 

The bit I'll be most pissed off about is pepper lane chippy in Standish will be off the list 😆

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Wow, haslingden is perilously close to that. And she works in Bury as well. It might only be commercials at present, but as always, tip of the iceberg. Just goes to prove what I keep telling people, if you like vehicles fuck the tax fuck the mpgs, buy em and enjoy them now. When we're all riding round on milk floats at least you'll have your memories

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23 minutes ago, loserone said:

Five grand grants available to upgrade vans, and anything less than 6 years old is already compliant.  Which will be 8years by the time it's enforced.

 

Seems pretty reasonable to me.  

8 years old , my pickup is 10 years old , nothing wrong with it , are they writing a cheque for you to buy any euro 6 van or is it 5k off a new 30k van 

Can't see many Hermes drivers going for that at 50p a parcel 

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4 minutes ago, Wack said:

pickup

Is it non compliant or have you not bothered to read that far?

 

It's a big urban area.  The air there is fucking minging, though you might not notice if you're used to it.  It's unlikely to be perfect as a solution but it's good that they're trying to do something

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I concur that the air quality in the city centre is awful. Our old Uni building when I was training was on Oxford road and I remember seeing stagecoach, First bus etc having 05, 06 plate double deckers absolutely belching out fumes. It was enough to make me some days when it was dry and still to be coughing. 

There was some studies that showed Manchester city centre to have the worst air particulates levels in the country. 

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1 hour ago, Minimad5 said:

Thing is, fishing actually harms the environment more than the whole of the U.K car Co2 combined.

As mentioned every fucking time these threads go up, these CAZ aren't about CO2. It's about all the other harmful shit that is chucked out, which is dangerous to human health and nasty to breath into lungs. Diesel as a fuel chucks by far the most of this out and not helped by so many lying scumbag manufacturers subverting the Type Approval tests. 

It's on the same par as Cigarette manufacturers claiming they're good for health and Asbestos manufacturing hiding the harmfulness of their products. 

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These emissions zones have been in major European cities for a good few years now and the UK is just behind the mark. They're going to be ever increasing and ever limiting. No point whining about it as there is bugger all anyone on here can do about it.

Internal Combustion powered vehicles are on the way out with them slowly being seen as anti-social and disgusting as smoking in public, in indoors spaces. It's going to become further taboo driving said vehicles in areas that there are high population densities. 

The fact is, anyone living in, near, commuting into a major city and town will start having to take into account that older vehicles will cost more to go in. Whereas on the continent high emissions vehicles are often completely banned, the UK doesn't seem to do that and allows but taxes to death instead. 

Historic vehicles are exempt and likely stay that way due to the low number of vehicles. But that means currently anything from around 1982 to 2000 petrol and 1982 to 2015 diesel are going to be expensive propositions to run if you live in these areas. What will happen to their value is unknown, but it's likely they will drop significantly until they are old enough to be desirable classics. 

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You've to only walk down Oxford road on a busy morning with no wind to notice how many clapped our Double Deckers are belching out black smoke. 

It's the Particulates that are the harmful shit. I'd actually feel it in my throat on a bad morning and I'd be coughing. 

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7 hours ago, Wack said:

Let's face it , if you employ a plumber/ builder/ somebody to clean your carpet and his van isn't euro 6 there's £10 a day going on his quote . 

If he does 6 jobs in the zone that's going to be £60 a day bonus , it'll be the end user that pays 

To be fair if it were £60 a day, it would be cheaper to lease a brand new van. And let's be honest the state and age of the van, helps in the identification of professional blaggers who tend to dwell in static caravans. 

But it won't be 60 quid a day. Most days. 

It will be good for the Van industry. Does the UK make vans? 

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6 hours ago, SiC said:

These emissions zones have been in major European cities for a good few years now and the UK is just behind the mark. They're going to be ever increasing and ever limiting. No point whining about it as there is bugger all anyone on here can do about it.

Internal Combustion powered vehicles are on the way out with them slowly being seen as anti-social and disgusting as smoking in public, in indoors spaces. It's going to become further taboo driving said vehicles in areas that there are high population densities. 

The fact is, anyone living in, near, commuting into a major city and town will start having to take into account that older vehicles will cost more to go in. Whereas on the continent high emissions vehicles are often completely banned, the UK doesn't seem to do that and allows but taxes to death instead. 

Historic vehicles are exempt and likely stay that way due to the low number of vehicles. But that means currently anything from around 1982 to 2000 petrol and 1982 to 2015 diesel are going to be expensive propositions to run if you live in these areas. What will happen to their value is unknown, but it's likely they will drop significantly until they are old enough to be desirable classics. 

So if I’m reading you correctly you’re saying buy all the 80s and 90s cars now so that they can be worth ££££ when they’re officially historic enough to go in clear air zones… got it. I’m liking this plan!! 

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I'm all for breathing cleaner air.

When I used to commute to Manchester I had two options, drive or get the train. Most trains in Piccadilly were diesels and my commute was regularly serviced by an old class 150 or an even older Pacer. If TfGM are serious about improving air quality then they need to look at all modes of transport within this zone.

(I understand that private cars will be exempt for now).

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2 hours ago, New POD said:

To be fair if it were £60 a day, it would be cheaper to lease a brand new van. And let's be honest the state and age of the van, helps in the identification of professional blaggers who tend to dwell in static caravans. 

But it won't be 60 quid a day. Most days. 

It will be good for the Van industry. Does the UK make vans? 

You're missing something. The van user will pay £10 in total for the day, each of his six customers will pay £10 extra. That's what Wack is saying 

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Let’s just go all the way then with this Clean Air bollocks. Let’s insist, no matter where you live all cars less than 6 years old are scrapped as they are polluting, we’ll organise a mandatory scrappage scheme of everything, the grey grille Sierra Base, that will have to go, a 1995 Jaguar XJ6 only used at the weekend - I’m afraid not. We’ll be round and clear your garage out and crush the lot.

Over perhaps 18 months we could be almost completely rid of all internal combustion by crushing them once they’ve been confiscated from the owners. We will outsource this job to some company that will redefine the word useless and naturally you will pay for the preposterously high bill. Obviously the car owners will be compensated for this, a voucher of £5,000 off a £30,000 Car will be ample for the man living not much above the breadline on minimum wage. It’s his own fault anyway he should have worked harder at school and got a job as an IT consultant or a Forex trader. 

Once we’ve managed to rid the U.K. of all the ghastly poisoning cars that are taking Greta’s future away we can move on to air travel, that’s very polluting. We’ll ban that then make all the however many thousand people working in it redundant. Enjoy a trip to Spain once a year? Tough shit, it’s bad for the environment, you’ll be going to Clacton this year and every year ongoing. On foot. 

Imagine how much of the environment we are saving now! The consumption of Beef can be next due to the emissions from manure and the cost of transporting it, we can solve this by forcing farmers not keep cattle and just grow grain and beans. In fact what we could do is force everyone to go meat free to make sure nobody gets ill as they grow old. 

Old houses will be next, think of how wasteful an old cottage is in terms of energy, imagine the kickstart this will give the ailing construction industry and all these houses built to modern energy efficient standards or at least a mandatory cladding in energy efficient materials. This will be at your cost, if you are on the dole we’ll do it for free, if you work then we will take a charge against the house for the £20-30k it’ll cost. Whilst we are at it we will loosen planning consent and the greenbelt will be scrapped. Compulsory purchase of rural land can take place then to build huge council estates on the outskirts of villages, then we can move all the people involved in gangs in south London to them to help them have a nice environment. Some will be available to purchase at an extortionate rate but we’ll make sure that we move a family of 14 in on either side. 

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8 hours ago, SiC said:

As mentioned every fucking time these threads go up, these CAZ aren't about CO2. It's about all the other harmful shit that is chucked out, which is dangerous to human health and nasty to breath into lungs. Diesel as a fuel chucks by far the most of this out and not helped by so many lying scumbag manufacturers subverting the Type Approval tests. ...

I wonder if things might have turned out slightly* differently had the Volkswagen diesel scandal not come to light.

8 hours ago, SiC said:

..... Historic vehicles are exempt and likely stay that way due to the low number of vehicles. But that means currently anything from around 1982 to 2000 petrol and 1982 to 2015 diesel are going to be expensive propositions to run if you live in these areas. What will happen to their value is unknown, but it's likely they will drop significantly until they are old enough to be desirable classics. 

We'll just have to hang on to the '80s shite and hope.

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7 minutes ago, Tadhg Tiogar said:

I wonder if things might have turned out slightly* differently had the Volkswagen diesel scandal not come to light.

We'll just have to hang on to the '80s shite and hope.

No, they are polluting and I’m afraid will have to be crushed. 🤣

You cant afford to be sentimental when it comes to the environment. Imagine how many houses you could build on Stonehenge. A scheme of 150 6 bed executive homes on ‘Stonehenge Close’. 

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9 hours ago, loserone said:

Is it non compliant or have you not bothered to read that far?

 

It's a big urban area.  The air there is fucking minging, though you might not notice if you're used to it.  It's unlikely to be perfect as a solution but it's good that they're trying to do something

As euro 6 came in around 2016 and my pickup is 10 years old I don't need to read it , the M60 isn't in the zone so that shows what bollocks it is , cars aren't included , probably 100 non compliant cars for every van , they're not in it 

If you can afford £50 a week you're not in it 

The haulage industry is struggling for drivers , next year there'll be less companies for them to work for so it might help there.

I get banning non compliant  vehicles completely but not this , this is just a tax that will eventually be passed on to the consumer.

 

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Action is needed re pollution in Manchester, and other cities, but like others I'm surprised the zone is going to be so large. I thought covering the area within the M60 was the plan, and would have been entirely reasonable.

I live 15 miles from the centre of Manchester. Travelling approx 2 miles up the road would see me entering the the zone.

Looking to the North sees the zone include Littleborough, for example. This had always struck me as being a fairly rural small town. Located approx 17 miles from the centre of Manchester (Piccadilly station, for reference) and found close to the Pennines. The zone extends to the Peak District to the East, and almost as far as St Helens to the West.

Though private cars are not yet included, I think it would be naive to imagine they won't be added to the list in due course.

For those not living in the North West, don't think for a second this just covers the City of Manchester. The scope is huge.

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