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Manchester clean air zone May 2022


Wack

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1 minute ago, mrbenn said:

 

Though private cars are not yet included, I think it would be naive to imagine they won't be added to the list in due course.

For those not living in the North West, don't think for a second this just covers the City of Manchester. The scope is huge.

Yup - expect Preston, Lancaster and Scouseland to follow suit in due course.

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1 hour ago, yes oui si said:

I don't believe it. 

I refuse to believe it. 

I don't FUCKING BELIEVE IT. 

I refuse to believe that there's anything good about Standish. 

One portion of fish & chips from pepper lane and I guarantee you'll change your mind 

You young'uns need to bring cash though , old fashioned fish & chips , so old fashioned payments 

No foreign food there but she does offer a gluten free batter option but as I found out at 1:55pm one day and she'd binned the normal batter it tastes fucking awful , peel it off the fish awful 

 

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9 minutes ago, mrbenn said:

Action is needed re pollution in Manchester, and other cities, but like others I'm surprised the zone is going to be so large. I thought covering the area within the M60 was the plan, and would have been entirely reasonable.

I live 15 miles from the centre of Manchester. Travelling approx 2 miles up the road would see me entering the the zone.

Looking to the North sees the zone include Littleborough, for example. This had always struck me as being a fairly rural small town. Located approx 17 miles from the centre of Manchester (Piccadilly station, for reference) and found close to the Pennines. The zone extends to the Peak District to the East, and almost as far as St Helens to the West.

Though private cars are not yet included, I think it would be naive to imagine they won't be added to the list in due course.

For those not living in the North West, don't think for a second this just covers the City of Manchester. The scope is huge.

I'd love to see how public transport is going to cope , when I bought my pickup from Bristol I flew from Manchester 

Train pulled into Warrington about 9am and it was rammed , 100 or more people on the platform I had to get on it or I was missing my flight 

By the time I got to the airport there was just me , if the passengers increase by a few % when they ban cars it'll overwhelm public transport 

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2 minutes ago, Wack said:

One portion of fish & chips from pepper lane and I guarantee you'll change your mind 

You young'uns need to bring cash though , old fashioned fish & chips , so old fashioned payments 

No foreign food there but she does offer a gluten free batter option but as I found out at 1:55pm one day and she'd binned the normal batter it tastes fucking awful , peel it off the fish awful 

 

This reminds me of last week, went in a chip shop. Card only under the bullshit of ‘Covid’.

Seemed a pretty stupid move if I’m honest for a mostly cash related business that probably puts some through the books and some through the pocket. This move to cashless society has fuck all to do with making it easier, it’s part of making sure the government has a full oversight of when and where you spend your money and ultimately to get a grip on criminals taking cash. All that will happen is they’ll move on to other methods to take payment, cryptocurrency, I-tunes vouchers or whatever.

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2 minutes ago, Wack said:

I'd love to see how public transport is going to cope , when I bought my pickup from Bristol I flew from Manchester 

Train pulled into Warrington about 9am and it was rammed , 100 or more people on the platform I had to get on it or I was missing my flight 

By the time I got to the airport there was just me , if the passengers increase by a few % when they ban cars it'll overwhelm public transport 

Despite all this we are wasting Christ knows how much on HS2, a rail link so you can get to London 20 minutes quicker, by the time that’s built the cost of the tickets will be prohibitive. Here’s a thought, scrap HS2 and spend the money fixing to local rail network. 

HS2 is the answer to a question nobody had asked. 

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23 minutes ago, mrbenn said:

 

Looking to the North sees the zone include Littleborough, for example. This had always struck me as being a fairly rural small town. Located approx 17 miles from the centre of Manchester (Piccadilly station, for reference) and found close to the Pennines. 

For those not living in the North West, don't think for a second this just covers the City of Manchester. The scope is huge.

Fairly rural small town Littleborough, used to be a small village, but is expanding as is everywhere else.

I thought we would skirt it via Todmorden, Halifax, or Bacup route, but that's not happening now.

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14 minutes ago, Wack said:

I'd love to see how public transport is going to cope , when I bought my pickup from Bristol I flew from Manchester 

Train pulled into Warrington about 9am and it was rammed , 100 or more people on the platform I had to get on it or I was missing my flight 

By the time I got to the airport there was just me , if the passengers increase by a few % when they ban cars it'll overwhelm public transport 

Couldn't agree more.

Some years ago I commuted into Manchester by train for a short time. It was generally accepted that you ideally had to get the service before the one you actually needed if timely arrival was important, as one was likely to be late or cancelled. Always packed to the rafters unless travelling after 9:30-ish, which wasn't an option for most. Regular price increases, along with worsening service. It was not unusal for me to return to the ticket desk and get a refund on a ticket I'd just bought due to non-arrival.

It forces people into their cars, which means fewer people on public transport, which means less investment in the network. A vicious cycle. Years of underinvestment and, as you rightly say, public transport just isn't up to what will be required of it.

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2 hours ago, sierraman said:

Let’s just go all the way then with this Clean Air bollocks. Let’s insist, no matter where you live all cars less than 6 years old are scrapped as they are polluting, we’ll organise a mandatory scrappage scheme of everything, the grey grille Sierra Base, that will have to go, a 1995 Jaguar XJ6 only used at the weekend - I’m afraid not. We’ll be round and clear your garage out and crush the lot.

Over perhaps 18 months we could be almost completely rid of all internal combustion by crushing them once they’ve been confiscated from the owners. We will outsource this job to some company that will redefine the word useless and naturally you will pay for the preposterously high bill. Obviously the car owners will be compensated for this, a voucher of £5,000 off a £30,000 Car will be ample for the man living not much above the breadline on minimum wage. It’s his own fault anyway he should have worked harder at school and got a job as an IT consultant or a Forex trader. 

Once we’ve managed to rid the U.K. of all the ghastly poisoning cars that are taking Greta’s future away we can move on to air travel, that’s very polluting. We’ll ban that then make all the however many thousand people working in it redundant. Enjoy a trip to Spain once a year? Tough shit, it’s bad for the environment, you’ll be going to Clacton this year and every year ongoing. On foot. 

Imagine how much of the environment we are saving now! The consumption of Beef can be next due to the emissions from manure and the cost of transporting it, we can solve this by forcing farmers not keep cattle and just grow grain and beans. In fact what we could do is force everyone to go meat free to make sure nobody gets ill as they grow old. 

Old houses will be next, think of how wasteful an old cottage is in terms of energy, imagine the kickstart this will give the ailing construction industry and all these houses built to modern energy efficient standards or at least a mandatory cladding in energy efficient materials. This will be at your cost, if you are on the dole we’ll do it for free, if you work then we will take a charge against the house for the £20-30k it’ll cost. Whilst we are at it we will loosen planning consent and the greenbelt will be scrapped. Compulsory purchase of rural land can take place then to build huge council estates on the outskirts of villages, then we can move all the people involved in gangs in south London to them to help them have a nice environment. Some will be available to purchase at an extortionate rate but we’ll make sure that we move a family of 14 in on either side. 

Nowt like being dramatic, eh? 

21 minutes ago, sierraman said:

This reminds me of last week, went in a chip shop. Card only under the bullshit of ‘Covid’.

Seemed a pretty stupid move if I’m honest for a mostly cash related business that probably puts some through the books and some through the pocket. This move to cashless society has fuck all to do with making it easier, it’s part of making sure the government has a full oversight of when and where you spend your money and ultimately to get a grip on criminals taking cash. All that will happen is they’ll move on to other methods to take payment, cryptocurrency, I-tunes vouchers or whatever.

I think you dropped your tinfoil hat... 

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These schemes are definitely not thought out so well. Looking at the rules as they are now my berlingo van on a 53 plate would be liable to the charge. Now if I was to sell it and buy a 53 plate multispace berlingo with the same engine then I'd not be liable to the charge. Yes that makes sense! 

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What really grinds my gears with this is that the Manchester and Bristol CLZ's affect commercial vehicles - yet Birmingham being the fucking bread basket it is punishes everyone for it. To drive the RAV4 and Corolla in to Birmingham costs £8 a day. And the biggest joke of it all is that you have to go really go through the city centre if you want to get to the M6 or the Children's Hospital - and you'll still get stung. But don't forget that - and this is verbatim from the council in Birmingham - that once the pollution is under acceptable levels the CLZ will stop and be removed. What's that thing about politicians promises?

43 minutes ago, sierraman said:

This reminds me of last week, went in a chip shop. Card only under the bullshit of ‘Covid’.

Seemed a pretty stupid move if I’m honest for a mostly cash related business that probably puts some through the books and some through the pocket. This move to cashless society has fuck all to do with making it easier, it’s part of making sure the government has a full oversight of when and where you spend your money and ultimately to get a grip on criminals taking cash. All that will happen is they’ll move on to other methods to take payment, cryptocurrency, I-tunes vouchers or whatever.

 

22 minutes ago, yes oui si said:

I think you dropped your tinfoil hat... 

@sierraman is quite on the money with this I'm afraid @yes oui si. Cash is always king, as it can't really be traced. This pisses off the tax man and the police as it makes their job harder to do. The best thing for either of these is to get transactions to be made in a way that can be recorded. Cashless does this fairly easily, as you have mobile phones, banks, card merchants all involved in the process. 

Further, now with all the "making tax digital" bullshine, invoices are recorded and treated the same way. So if you're freelance, you invoice a customer, they pay the invoice. Tax man comes along to the customer, wants to know where the £1,000 you said you charged them has gone. Customer shows the invoice you raised for £1,200. Tax man then wonders where the £200 you didn't mention has gone. It's much, much harder for them to do this if it's all cash as it doesn't go through the books. But now with everything being digital, everything leaves a trace. 

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Also, the banks hate cash because it is heavy and bulky and generally a pain in the ass to deal with what with counting it, all the security, having to physically transport it etc. 

 A friend in the banking industry is involved in the move to getting rid of cash and says cash is even worse than cheques in terms of cost to process. That surprised me too.

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2 hours ago, sierraman said:

Despite all this we are wasting Christ knows how much on HS2, a rail link so you can get to London 20 minutes quicker, by the time that’s built the cost of the tickets will be prohibitive. Here’s a thought, scrap HS2 and spend the money fixing to local rail network. 

HS2 is the answer to a question nobody had asked. 

The Hull to Manchester line was going to be electrified, but this was cancelled due to 'costs'. Cancelled after they had upgraded all the signalling for the modern, electric trains, which are now not going to use the line. So expect smokin' diesels coming into the middle of Manchester for years to come. See also the 'Hope' line from Sheffield.

But they squander squillions on HS2. Northern Powerhouse my arse.

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3 hours ago, sierraman said:

This reminds me of last week, went in a chip shop. Card only under the bullshit of ‘Covid’.

Seemed a pretty stupid move if I’m honest for a mostly cash related business that probably puts some through the books and some through the pocket. 

My mate has delivered to chip shops for many years. As you say, much of the supplies are paid in cash.

To the point where they have a safe in the trucks.

These get robbed from time to time in a similar way to bank security vehicles.

Obviously ex employees know how much is in the safe.

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3 hours ago, mrbenn said:

Action is needed re pollution in Manchester, and other cities, but like others I'm surprised the zone is going to be so large. I thought covering the area within the M60 was the plan, and would have been entirely reasonable.

I live 15 miles from the centre of Manchester. Travelling approx 2 miles up the road would see me entering the the zone.

Looking to the North sees the zone include Littleborough, for example. This had always struck me as being a fairly rural small town. Located approx 17 miles from the centre of Manchester (Piccadilly station, for reference) and found close to the Pennines. The zone extends to the Peak District to the East, and almost as far as St Helens to the West.

Though private cars are not yet included, I think it would be naive to imagine they won't be added to the list in due course.

For those not living in the North West, don't think for a second this just covers the City of Manchester. The scope is huge.

As far as I can see it includes areas like this on the North East top of the zone. Seems well thought out, no?

Screenshot_20210805_130348_com.google.android.apps.maps.jpg

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3 hours ago, yes oui si said:

Luckily a small group of plucky oil industry billionaires is exposing climate change for the lie it is, right? 

I don't think anyone is saying this. But making people pay more to use their own transport isn't going to make fuck all difference to the climate when there is still a lack of viable alternatives. Politicians like little answers to big questions, which is exactly what is going on here. The obvious answer to pollution caused by travel is to give people less reason to move around. Workplaces within walking distance, local shops and facilities and so on. Big answer that though, involving a lot of money, effort and planning. So fuck it, why not just levy another stealth tax at ordinary people, who will be duty bound to pay it because no viable alternative.

Case in point, wife's a copper in Bury. From us that's about 9 mile and a 15 minute commute. By public transport it's 2 long walks, 2 buses and about 2 hours. Never mind the 12pm to 12am shifts she's on this week. When she finishes at midnight, how is she getting home? No public transport to rossendale then.

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3 minutes ago, Matty said:

I don't think anyone is saying this. But making people pay more to use their own transport isn't going to make fuck all difference to the climate when there is still a lack of viable alternatives. Politicians like little answers to big questions, which is exactly what is going on here. The obvious answer to pollution caused by travel is to give people less reason to move around. Workplaces within walking distance, local shops and facilities and so on. Big answer that though, involving a lot of money, effort and planning. So fuck it, why not just levy another stealth tax at ordinary people, who will be duty bound to pay it because no viable alternative.

Case in point, wife's a copper in Bury. From us that's about 9 mile and a 15 minute commute. By public transport it's 2 long walks, 2 buses and about 2 hours. Never mind the 12pm to 12am shifts she's on this week. When she finishes at midnight, how is she getting home? No public transport to rossendale then.

I'm not saying that public transport is for everyone - I would have to leave the house at 5am and not get back until 10am the next day if I used it to get to a 9-5 in the office. 

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The Hull to Manchester line was going to be electrified, but this was cancelled due to 'costs'. Cancelled after they had upgraded all the signalling for the modern, electric trains, which are now not going to use the line. So expect smokin' diesels coming into the middle of Manchester for years to come. See also the 'Hope' line from Sheffield.
But they squander squillions on HS2. Northern Powerhouse my arse.
Read some of the stuff on northern powerhouse rail if you fancy a lol, they are still insisting they are going to build a direct high speed rail line from Manchester to Leeds via Bradford.

I'm assuming none of them have been up here to try and figure out why all the trains go on the less direct routes they do now, something about hills maybe?

Anyway like bub mentioned I am hoping to get away with this on the windows excuse, my euro 4 2010 van is down on the logbook as an M1 passenger vehicle (does have seats and windows back there) so as I'm reading it I am exempt for now.

On the tinfoil cash stuff, no ta, I get paid into my bank (even for selling tat on eBay etc) and use my card everywhere, when I do face something where cash is asked for it's a pain in the arse to go to a machine and get out bits of paper like it's 1989. It is easier not to use cash provided your financial affairs are "on the system", I'm sure money laundering will still be a thing for those who aren't.
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Who cares about air quality in the North? I thought you lot were all desperate to get back doon t' mines etc anyway.

Imagine being in a position where you would want to voluntarily visit Manchester! The mind boggles. Also nice to confirm a couple more AS members as raving conspiracy lunatics!

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1 minute ago, Dave_Q said:

Read some of the stuff on northern powerhouse rail if you fancy a lol, they are still insisting they are going to build a direct high speed rail line from Manchester to Leeds via Bradford.

I'm assuming none of them have been up here to try and figure out why all the trains go on the less direct routes they do now, something about hills maybe?...

Sometimes I wonder why they bothered building the Trans-Pennine route via the Woodhead Tunnels all those decades ago.....

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24 minutes ago, barrett said:

Who cares about air quality in the North? I thought you lot were all desperate to get back doon t' mines etc anyway.

Imagine being in a position where you would want to voluntarily visit Manchester! The mind boggles. Also nice to confirm a couple more AS members as raving conspiracy lunatics!

Thanks for your input

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Sometimes I wonder why they bothered building the Trans-Pennine route via the Woodhead Tunnels all those decades ago.....
Don't get me wrong, the trains from Leeds to Manchester are pretty shit as they go via Halifax or Huddersfield on slow lines.

The reason they go that way is not because the Victorians lacked ambition or a catchy name like Northern Powerhouse, its because there's a bastard mountain range in the way.

Genuinely interested to see how it plays out as the line they are presumably scrawling on a map from Manchester to Bradford would require as much building as the M62 did.
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