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Citroen C1/ Pug 107; Futureshite?


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Was having a Saturday afternoom debate at the local hostelry today with a few regulars, one of whom works at a citroen garage as a Service Manager or whatever they are called these days, probably an automobile/customer liason executive forward slash after sales care and maintainence facillitator or some bollocks, anyroad up, Iwas (as usual) bemoaning the fact that in a few years there would be nothing to drive/run on the cheap, being fixed and bodged by the enthusiastic amateur idiot such as myself as modern cars needed a main dealer to switch the radio on blah blah blah.He reckoned that the Citroen C1/Pug 107 was worth thinking about, its got the Toyota engine (but is cheaper than an Aygo) does 60mpg, £30 a year road tax and can be ordered with wind up windows, no central locking aircon etc and is designed to be dead easy to fix as its quote only got about 3 moving parts on it.Must admit I was caught on the backfoot by this, can it be true that even today somebody is making an easy to drive cheap to run car that is relatively straightforward to work on?

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Has is got a carburettor? Points? Manual choke??

 

NO. It's got boxes of soldered connections and electronic brains that you are f*cked if they go wrong. Also most of the car is either plastic bumper or plastic lights (have you seen the size of the rear cluster - it is the entire C-pillar!), which once cracked & busted you'll be buggered to be able to replace in 2025.

 

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I see his point in that there's less to go wrong - electric windows, climate control, sensors for everything - but what he fails to realise is that the Autoshite Way is to just keep the engine, gearbox and brakes working and stuff everything else. So it doesn't matter if it did have electric windows, if they packed up in 20 years time you'd just remember not to use multistorey carparks.As pog rightly says, it still suffers from low DIYageness thanks to all the engine black boxes. No amount of basic equipment levels can help you when an ECU-controlled engine fails.

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It's got boxes of soldered connections and electronic brains that you are f*cked if they go wrong.

Isn't the point that they dont go wrong.... muchModern shite doesn't usually give too much electronic trouble (Vauxhall sensors excepted) and to be fair to it, the chances of buying a light cluster for a 25 year old car now is hardly an off the shelf item.These C10go's look a better bet than a lot of newish stuff.Was amazed to read elsewhere that the Prius has an ecu for the headlamps! What the.... is the point in that?! Not that it matters, a 20 year old prius will be a right chocoate teapot anyway.
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Not saying I totally dislike them though!They are packed full of some incredibly stingy design touches, I like the totally useless "boot" which is just the glass that opens with a high lip and external hinges. Plus stuff like this always seems pleasingly egalitarian, doesn't matter who you are what you do etc, it's just a small box to go from A > B in the best tradition of small french cars, so I like that aspect. The bits that will count against as "shite" are the bits important to sell them new, Euro NCAP points & ease of driving (over actual ease of use in the overall sense)

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as much as i hate them a friend has C1 rthat i borrowed whilst he was on holiday and it was a hoot to drive but wouldnt want to own one very plasticy, basic looking, preferred the smart and i dont really like those either, tis ok till you look over ya shoulder and theres the car behind you :?

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My Mum has an Aygo. I've driven it quite a lot. Initially I really didnt like it, but it's now done about 20k and is actually quite a good drive. It'd been unused on the drive since Sunday until yesterday - 8" of snow all round it. Cleaned snow off windows and lights and got out of our sloped drive quite easily. Has quite narrow tyres on it so manages the snow quite well; when it does start to spin or slide you can feel it easily and it responds to inputs quite well. The worst thing about it is probably the lifeless steering. I did dislike the gearchange but it's loosened up to being decent.

 

...It's not the lowest spec but not high. Does have some crap qualities about it. Seems to steam up really easily, seats are a pain in the arse to tilt and adjust, boot very small, I dont know if it's DBW or not but it does seem quite easy to stall if you're not careful (easier than my Integra with lightened flywheel) - i guess most new cars are tuned so that on idle they're just running so emissions are low.

 

Her car before was a Seicento Sporting. I prefered to drive this, and definitely more 'shite'. Expected though as it's probably a 7-8 year older design (and based on the Cinq no doubt).

 

I dont know entirely the differences between the three cars other than the lights and grill. I've read they're made in different factories?

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A couple of years back, my BX decided to have its obligatory monthly breakdown at a very inconvenient time. In a moment of desperation, I visited the local Hertz branch and rented an 107, expecting the absolute worst.After a few days of driving it around the horrible Maltese roads, I must admit that I was positively impressed with the little car. Of course, it has none of the character (or the handling) of an 106, but it's excellent at what it's supposed to do : it's very easy to drive, quite comfortable, deceptively spacious and fuel economy was amazing (so much that I actually started thinking that the fuel gauge was not working, in typical Peugeot fashion).It does feel cheaply made and filmsy, but small PSA cars have always been like that and the bits that matter have always been tough and reliable. And I can't see the electrics being much more complex than those of a 1990s car, as I don't think that PSA/Toyota have bothered using multiplex wiring in such a cheap and simple car.Overall, if I was looking for a modern shopping trolley to drive to work, I would give the 107 some serious thought (and then I would buy its ugly Citroen sister, for the extra futureshite points).

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I remember being amazed by the rear door arrangement, with no visible shutline around the arch. I don't know why, it seems fairly logical when every inch is important, but it impressed me.With regard to ECUs, they do make things more reliable for your average motorist as it'll happily monitor all the vitals, keep it running as long as possible, and then suggest you go to a dealer. However your more enthusiastic driver will always prefer a traditional mechanical setup for the tinker factor, and they like to impress their mates in the pub with the story of how they made it 200 miles cross country with an emergency throttle cable made from plaited pubes or something.It just puts more pressure on backstreet garages to invest in fault code readers and the like.... my old regular got broken into and all their gizmos stolen, replacement cost was £20k or something daft. Up goes the hourly rate then! Until the mid-90s they quite happily got by with a toolbox passed down through generations.

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I reckon people think too hard about which cars will become Autoshite. Pretty much any car that isn't well-loved exotica or a cast-iron "future classic" will end up in the Autoshite spotters guide eventually.For example, if Autoshite existed in the late 70s there'd probably be a load of people debating whether the Visa could ever become shite - of course it did. So the C1 will get there too, just give it 20 years for them to naturally "thin out".

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I've been driving an AyGo whenever I can in this shite weather as they are fcuking brilliant, just been down to Gatwick through country lanes in the snow and it was just superb, abs takes a bit of the worry out af the ice, great traction going up icy and snowy hills, I hate to say it but I'd actually buy one, I've got 70mpg out of it, it's got all you'd need and not much more, poky enough and fine for the family too, in fact it's so good I actually fancy taking one when me and the family are driving down to Rome, I actually love them so much I'm dribbling!

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Has is got a carburettor? Points? Manual choke?? NO. It's got boxes of soldered connections and electronic brains that you are f*cked if they go wrong

Surely, the ECUs won't all go wrong at the same time? Hence there's a market for buying up cars that are shonky, finding out what parts are working and selling them on the secondhand market. There's going to be lots around and lots getting thrown away, so they'll be cheap to strip and cheap to run.
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Pretty much any car that isn't well-loved exotica or a cast-iron "future classic" will end up in the Autoshite spotters guide eventually. For example, if Autoshite existed in the late 70s there'd probably be a load of people debating whether the Visa could ever become shite - of course it did. So the C1 will get there too, just give it 20 years for them to naturally "thin out".

I think maybe the Mk1 Fiesta would be a better example: ever so popular in its day, most died off naturally as the C1 will, and now there is still demand from a relatively mainstream classic / future classic audience.

 

They're also popular and actually quite nice. That'll never be shite!

True. These were number 1st (C1), 2nd and 3rd in MSN's last survey of least depreciating cars, so they must be v popular. New Citroens not dropping in value... that's impressive.

Have you seen the size of the rear cluster - it is the entire C-pillar! Once cracked & busted you'll be buggered to be able to replace in 2025.

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No rear quarter panel visible tho - you don't have to worry about trying to make that pretty again!

I chained my back axle to a tree to pull it straight-ish and screwed on my scrapyard bounty:

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Couldn't find a C1 in Salterforth: I had to use rear light and glass from a 107.

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I have a C1, the most basic, lowest spec of all, manual windows, etc.I bought one of the first to market when they came out, it's on an 05 plate.It is utterly brilliant for a city car and great in the snow. Nippy too.A Citroen with Toyota build quality, can't be bad.I also run the c1oc - city bug club :D

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Would the Suzuki Alto be a better bet? The Indians don't have a throwaway culture, and I understand some of their garages are a bit basic, so could it actually be straightforward and simple to fix on top ofits other future-shite credentials. So has anyone had any experience of one?

Had an old Alto (99/T) and that was superb as I have mentioned many many times before. Should have kept it really. The new Alto is the same as a Nissan Pixo which again is very very basic but still an acceptable enough thing to drive as long as you accept it for what it is.I'd quite happily have a C1/Aygo as I rather like them. Good to drive, pleasingly basic and cheap to own.
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I've driven lots of 107s at work. I don't love them but they're infinitely preferable to the 207 which from my point of view has not one redeeming feature. I think a lot of people don't even realise these come in five-door flavour! I didn't until someone told me the rear door WAS the rear quarter panel...

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  • 9 years later...

^Thought I'd revive this one as it seems the shitters of yore were spot on^

 

Fast forward a decade from this threads creation and whilst still looking very modern the C1/Aygo/107 are now definitely falling into prime shite territory. The bad news is after making some idle remarks at home about approving of them I've now been tasked with finding one to replace Mrs Eunos's Lupo because "It's nearly 20 years old" and she's "Sick of having the oldest car in the work carpark". When will I learn to keep my big mouth shut?

 

My mission is simple, find one within a 30 mile radius of home, preferably with under 100k for as close to £1000 as possible. Yesterday I looked at two, first had what looked like a massive oil leak from the block and what appeared to me to be early signs of HGF, the second was clean as a whistle but had zero oil, once topped up predictably it still sounded like a machine gun on full chat at idle.

 

The hunt continues, wish me luck....

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