Fiat 126 purchased

[DavidB]

I had a look at a Fiat 126 Bis today, I had no idea they were now four figures for even a rough one.

The car was solid but the engine was a bit gruff - it used to run fine but has been in a dry barn for many years and probably needs a refresh. I drove it forwards and backwards etc.

What are other engine swaps on these - does the Panda Fire engine swap easily? Can you still get teplacement parts for these easily?

[Ian_Fearn]

Sorry I can’t help regarding the engines but I do know one thing.

THIS is a great idea.

[Mrcento]

Can't speak of the easy of swapping a FIRE in, but yes, parts for FIRE's are absolutely plentiful and really easy to get a hold of still.

They were used in various sizes over so many models and most of the parts were interchangeable between the lot.

Even now, most of the smaller Fiat engines are descendants of the Panda/Uno lumps mechanically.

[DavidB]

It’s not an easy swap then? Is the Bis water cooled, and how many cylinders? I absolutely love these cars.

[SiC]

What about a tuned 127?

https://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/218381/1980-fiat-abarth-replica-somerset

From @panhard65of this parish. 

[LightBulbFun]

On 01/07/2021 at 19:48, DavidB said:

I had a look at a Fiat 126 Bis today, I had no idea they were now four figures for even a rough one.

The car was solid but the engine was a bit gruff - it used to run fine but has been in a dry barn for many years and probably needs a refresh. I drove it forwards and backwards etc.

What are other engine swaps on these - does the Panda Fire engine swap easily? Can you still get teplacement parts for these easily?

the flat twin steyr puch engine was from what I understand was a common swap back in the day

as the All alloy flat twin being much better then the original cast iron inline 2 Fiat lump

drops in with relative ease as it was specifically developed to go in place of the fiat inline 2 lump

and was even Sold new in a Fiat 126 body, by Steyr puch as the Steyr Puch 126  

On 01/07/2021 at 20:06, DavidB said:

It’s not an easy swap then? Is the Bis water cooled, and how many cylinders? I absolutely love these cars.

the BIS is indeed water cooled unlike the 126p which was Air cooled, both where still inline 2's however but the 126 Bis's water cooled engine was 704cc

not sure what engine swaps are possible with the Water cooled versions 

[eddyramrod]

From memory, the Bis was the late one, made in Poland and water-cooled, whereas the earlier models used a development of the Nuova 500 engine.  They were all upright twins, although I suspect the Bis may have been canted over to allow the hatchback.

Isn't the FIRE engine a four-pot?  I very much doubt there will be room for that!

I think the Bis is still well-loved in Poland, where it was called Maluch; look around Facebook, there will be support groups.

[groovyboovy]

There is a boot above the engine, if you loose this you can fit somthing bigger in there

[808 Estate]

https://www.ricambifiat.com/58-engine?orderby=price&orderway=desc&orderway=desc

Recon engines from 1300 Euro if you want a bolt in solution.

[dollywobbler]

I'm with LBF on this one. The Steyr-Puch engine is a proper sweety, and there are some entertaining tune up goodies for them too. Keeps it flat twin like the BIS engines. 

[Zelandeth]

What LBF and DW have said.  There's a load of tuning potential and readily available parts to do so off the shelf for the Steyr-Puch engine.  They're a lovely little unit which even in stock form will run rings round the original Fiat one - there are some videos out there of period cars both Fiat and Steyr based cars racing and the difference is night and day.

They're really smooth engines which rev far more freely than you'd expect for something from that era.

[mat_the_cat]

Or stick a V8 in it?

Although I probably wouldn't TBH. 

[Mr Pastry]

12 minutes ago, groovyboovy said:

There is a boot above the engine, if you loose this you can fit somthing bigger in there

I once sold a Lancia Fulvia engine, 1300 twin cam V4, to a chap who put it in a 126 and made a very nice job of it.  The engine went where the back seat would normally be, with I think an 850 gearbox.  It would have been about 90 bhp so it went rather well. 

 

[DavidB]

I'm not that interested in any major works on it, just wanted to know on straight swaps - I'll just redo the engine in it, and it sounds like it just needs a service*.

The seller was nice and completely genuine about it, can't remember how long he had owned it for and had this as well as a number of others stored in a barn. He has a 4000 mile one, all of these cost about 200 quid max (he bought one for 30 quid), so he's now sitting on 15 grands worth of cars now.

I checked over the body and the only welding was in the frunk at the bottom, everywhere looked solid and there's nowhere to hide on these - where else do these go (apart from everywhere)?
It started straight away, accelerator pedal is stiff (common problem) and the exhaust blowing like it's not there so no doubt that will need sorting.

Here is the car in question 😁 It was originally red and owner said this was shiny when he got it, it looks OK really for what looks like a amateur paint job.

[eddyramrod]

Never driven a 126 but I did have three of the earlier 500s in the 80s, and those were enormous fun!  Far more so than I  would have expected.   Best of luck with it!

[motorpunk]

Nice. My 500 has a tweaked 650cc engine in it and it’s more than lively enough! 

[tooSavvy]

I lyke been boorinn fcuk.....

DO A... C1 3potta

WCPGW

[New POD]

I had a C reg 126. It was fast down hill. 

Have you thought about forced induction? What's the smallest turbo you can get ? 

[omegod]

What a little cutie 💗 get it bought

[5speedracer]

Would a Twin-Air engine go in one of these does the assembled wisdom think?

[stillOrange]

If you want 126, I suggest you find yourself another one that is not BIS. Especially if you're looking at swapping engines.

Much easier to work on and (I presume) parts availability is considerably better.

126 BIS were always considered a bit of a Frankenstein back in the days in Poland. Not particularly successful example of trying to improve space and performance of a car so that it fits export markets better.

[Surface Rust]

My 126 BIS still ranks as my worse ever car purchase. I truly grew to despise it. I had constant thermostat and overheating problems, corrosion in the head, leaking past the head studs, shit brakes, and disintegrating fuel pumps. The engine is a monumentally bad design and the handling was mostly terrifying. I haven't mentioned rust either...

 

You should do it.

[St.Jude]

Well someone has to say it. 

The Fiat 126 is ripe for a K-Series conversion.

....

I kid. Although being the eternal optimist, why not a Twin Air from a modern 500? I mean, how hard could it be?

[Stanky]

Isn't @Borsuq our resident expert on these?

[MOD500]

14 hours ago, DavidB said:

I had a look at a Fiat 126 Bis today, I had no idea they were now four figures for even a rough one.

The car was solid but the engine was a bit gruff - it used to run fine but has been in a dry barn for many years and probably needs a refresh. I drove it forwards and backwards etc.

What are other engine swaps on these - does the Panda Fire engine swap easily? Can you still get teplacement parts for these easily?

Not very easy with the BIS, but very common with the aircooled.

The aircooled rear engine mount panel comes out with 4 bolts and is easy to modify to take the fire engine.

On the BIS, the panel can come off, but there is a remaining structural panel which will get in the way.  The BIS is not the easiest for engine swaps unfortunately, also not many tuning options for this engine.

I also have one of these, but mine is currently more Flinstone friendly.

[Zelandeth]

Interesting suggestion on the C1/etc engine.  It is a fairly tiny unit, 68bhp out the box and probably one of the last to have a self contained loom rather than canbus nonsense tied into the rest of the car.  Cable operated gear change too so (relatively) easy to hook up for a remote setup.

It feels lively enough in a Pug 107 so would probably fly in something as light as a 126.

Still would involve a lot of fabrication of engine mounts etc and you're still going to have to fight for vertical space I reckon.

[lovejoy]

AAaargh.....   the Bis engine is a disaster....  walk away !     stick to air cooled versions  : )

[Borsuq]

Yeah, as many people say, I probably wouldn't bother with a BIS unless there’s a reason you want that particular version. The engine was rather underdeveloped and suffered from endless issues, mostly to do with overheating. Aircooled cars are slower and less practical in theory but also much easier to work on and keep on the road.

No clue about swaps unfortunately.

[DavidB]

It's all I have on offer - all the rest are just ridiculously overpriced for off the road cars that are rusty - this is solid and it's done a fair amount of miles on the water cooled engine. Are they actually that bad?

I'm never going to undertake a big engine swap from another car though, I have too much on and this doesn't need a lot. This was up for £2000. I got him down to £1450. Not sure if that's cheap, there are a lot worse on ebay.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=fiat+126&_sacat=0&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1

 

 

[Borsuq]

I do know one person who's really enjoyed his BIS ownership experience if that helps. He's not had any really major issues over the couple of years he's had his car. That said it's definitely a one eye on the temperature gauge sort of car. A BIS heaving cooling system issues is almost always a case of when rather than if.

If you were to go deep into modifying one I wonder how many Cinquecento 700 parts could be of use. The CC700 used a much more developed version of the same engine. They made it spin the other way, but it's essentially the same motor. I'd have to consult some people in the know before I could say how (if at all) CC700 parts could be used to improve a 126 BIS though.