E10 fuel

[Spurious]

53 minutes ago, TheOtherStu said:

I thought the checker only did cars from 2001 onwards?

These days, the base fuel all comes from the same place. The only difference is the additives.

Volvo are quoted on that saying any of theirs from the mid 70s would be fine

[St.Jude]

2 hours ago, Kiltox said:

Was also surprised by this yesterday when filling the banana Benz - I hardly ever buy petrol but I wasn’t expecting it to have come in so early. 

That's definitely happened in the last 2 weeks, I'm just surprised they've gone this early when all the news is saying it's later on in the year? Only disclaimer is a bit of text under the E10 sign on the pump. You'd barely see it tbh.

53 minutes ago, willswitchengage said:

I guess that as the E5 specification falls within E10, everybody's going to do this? I.e. fuel will still contain something like 4% ethanol, it'll go up to 10 over the years as the refining industry moves on and the price of ethanol moves around. I wonder where it gets mixed? The refinery itself?

Just surprised it went this early. I'd say it's get mixed at the refinery, can't imagine unloading/loading between the refinery and station would make much financial sense.

[TheOtherStu]

1 hour ago, Spurious said:

Volvo are quoted on that saying any of theirs from the mid 70s would be fine

Cool

I'll keep Volvo on my list of crappers that I'm looking to buy for the dog.

[Burnside]

My local Sainsbury's have also changed there pumps when I filled up yesterday, but when I asked the cashier about it. They told me that it was still E5 as they won't get E10 till September ish. 

[Alessi P]

All of mine are, but there’s way less energy in E10 - yet it will remain the same price. Fuck it, I’ll be running everything on Premuim from now on. Sick of this bullshit, watered down fuel. 

[danthecapriman]

There’s a small article in this months Practical Classics about E10. They’re doing another more in depth article next month about it.

Im going to stick to my original plan of using the super unleaded whenever I can, but I’ll keep a few bottles of Ethanol additive for when I can’t. I think it’ll be fine!

[Spurious]

I think in the grand scheme of things if your fuel lines are perished, it's because they're old.  32 years old in my case.  Not because you've put a bit of E10 in it in the last couple of months.

I think the bigger problem is the water absorbtion if it's left standing.

Neverthe less, I'll be running super in the Audi.  It seems to run better. It says min 98 on the fuel filler and 95 in the manuel so who knows...

[MT606]

morrisons at carlisle had E10 when I went to the NE gathering on the 24th July......

 

[Fumbler]

That may just be the labelling being done in advance. Every petrol station here including Morrisons still had E5 written on it.

[Liggle]

Noticed my local Tesco has changed over to E10 on regular unleaded, Momentum 99 still E5 though

[PhilA]

On 8/2/2021 at 4:19 PM, Spurious said:

I think in the grand scheme of things if your fuel lines are perished, it's because they're old.  32 years old in my case.  Not because you've put a bit of E10 in it in the last couple of months.

I think the bigger problem is the water absorbtion if it's left standing.

Neverthe less, I'll be running super in the Audi.  It seems to run better. It says min 98 on the fuel filler and 95 in the manuel so who knows...

Nope. I put a new hose on and in a few hundred miles of driving it turned to jelly and split wide open.

 

It's not the ethanol, I don't think. It's all the other nasty junk they have to put in to try stabilize it. E10 stinks of.. well, not gasoline. It doesn't smell pleasant, for sure.

Phil

[Spurious]

10 minutes ago, PhilA said:

Nope. I put a new hose on and in a few hundred miles of driving it turned to jelly and split wide open.

 

It's not the ethanol, I don't think. It's all the other nasty junk they have to put in to try stabilize it. E10 stinks of.. well, not gasoline. It doesn't smell pleasant, for sure.

Phil

Well. Crap. 

Think I'll stick to premium then. 

[Zelandeth]

40 minutes ago, PhilA said:

Nope. I put a new hose on and in a few hundred miles of driving it turned to jelly and split wide open.

 

It's not the ethanol, I don't think. It's all the other nasty junk they have to put in to try stabilize it. E10 stinks of.. well, not gasoline. It doesn't smell pleasant, for sure.

Phil

This.

When I fuelled up on the way down here with the Merc, first time I've used fuel other than Esso Supreme for a while now (which is *for now* in my area still ethanol free), first thing I noticed was that it absolutely stunk of some sort of solvent cocktail.  Smelled more like paint stripper than petrol.

[Scrubworks]

17 hours ago, PhilA said:

Nope. I put a new hose on and in a few hundred miles of driving it turned to jelly and split wide open.

 

It's not the ethanol, I don't think. It's all the other nasty junk they have to put in to try stabilize it. E10 stinks of.. well, not gasoline. It doesn't smell pleasant, for sure.

Phil

What was the grade of hose you used? My (not amazingly in depth) research has told me that J30 R9 spec diesel injection hose is designed to withstand up to and including E10 petrol. That's what I fit to all my cars now.

[PhilA]

4 hours ago, Scrubworks said:

What was the grade of hose you used? My (not amazingly in depth) research has told me that J30 R9 spec diesel injection hose is designed to withstand up to and including E10 petrol. That's what I fit to all my cars now.

It was a small loop of whatever Auto Zone had on the shelf as fuel injection hose.

[Tadhg Tiogar]

4 hours ago, Scrubworks said:

What was the grade of hose you used? My (not amazingly in depth) research has told me that J30 R9 spec diesel injection hose is designed to withstand up to and including E10 petrol. That's what I fit to all my cars now.

 

1 minute ago, PhilA said:

It was a small loop of whatever Auto Zone had on the shelf as fuel injection hose.

I seem to recall earlier discussion over the suitability of marine-grade or aviation fuel hose, but forget which of the two - it might have been both - was more than capable of withstanding E10.

[PhilA]

16 minutes ago, Tadhg Tiogar said:

 

I seem to recall earlier discussion over the suitability of marine-grade or aviation fuel hose, but forget which of the two - it might have been both - was more than capable of withstanding E10.

Marine hose is better grade. It's what replaced the line that went pop. It's still in there.

Aviation stuff you have to take care with because usually it's highly specific as to what is good to use with, and aircraft fuels are very tightly regulated as to their contents.

Marine fuel less so...

[Zelandeth]

19 minutes ago, Tadhg Tiogar said:

 

I seem to recall earlier discussion over the suitability of marine-grade or aviation fuel hose, but forget which of the two - it might have been both - was more than capable of withstanding E10.

Yep, marine grade hose is what you want, it's resistant to pretty much anything short of direct nuclear attack. 

ISO7840 A1 hose is what you want.  It's not even massively expensive, think it cost me about £25 for enough to completely rerun the line on the Invacar, so £30-40 should be enough for most cars and some spare. 

Note that the traceability is far greater than with normal automotive hose, so if it's the real stuff it should have lot/batch numbers stamped on it, not just a week/year date code. 

 

[St.Jude]

22 hours ago, PhilA said:

Nope. I put a new hose on and in a few hundred miles of driving it turned to jelly and split wide open.

This worried me (still does) as you are putting your faith on the shop knowing that the ISO number printed on the hose is correct and that they haven't been conned by someone on AliExpress just writing an ISO number on a hose pipe. 

On 8/2/2021 at 10:29 PM, Fumbler said:

That may just be the labelling being done in advance. Every petrol station here including Morrisons still had E5 written on it.

Can they actually do this? Legally speaking - as I'm buying E10 fuel as advertised. I want the E10 I thought I was buying, I don't want the E5 shit, more numbers is better obvs. 

Joking aside, I really did think they could only sell what they advertise.

[horriblemercedes]

9 minutes ago, St.Jude said:

 

Can they actually do this? Legally speaking - as I'm buying E10 fuel as advertised. I want the E10 I thought I was buying, I don't want the E5 shit, more numbers is better obvs. 

Joking aside, I really did think they could only sell what they advertise.

I don't know the exact rules for the E5 and E10 standards, but I guess that they're seeing it as in E10 is also E5. E10 just guarantees that there will be no more than 10% ethanol, E5 guarantees no more than 5%. There are probably loads of other rules in it too though, so maybe I'm talking rubbish!

[St.Jude]

43 minutes ago, horriblemercedes said:

I don't know the exact rules for the E5 and E10 standards, but I guess that they're seeing it as in E10 is also E5. E10 just guarantees that there will be no more than 10% ethanol, E5 guarantees no more than 5%. There are probably loads of other rules in it too though, so maybe I'm talking rubbish!

I don't think you're talking rubbish. I've seen E10 for sale at Sainsbury's - but I thought given the rule that it doesn't come in until next month, it just makes me wonder about that area of the law.

[PhilA]

I guess ultimately I'd you're concerned go find fuel line that's marked FLEX FUEL because that's E85 compatible.

You can tell the stuff that isn't because it'll be marked with it explicitly like my truck- the yellow thing has E85 and a red line through it. E10 maximum.

Doesn't help that E85 is the yellow handle here, though... (Unleaded black, diesel green, E0 blue...)

[danthecapriman]

4 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

Yep, marine grade hose is what you want, it's resistant to pretty much anything short of direct nuclear attack. 

ISO7840 A1 hose is what you want.  It's not even massively expensive, think it cost me about £25 for enough to completely rerun the line on the Invacar, so £30-40 should be enough for most cars and some spare. 

Note that the traceability is far greater than with normal automotive hose, so if it's the real stuff it should have lot/batch numbers stamped on it, not just a week/year date code. 

 

That’s the stuff I’ve started buying for my cars now. It’s not difficult to get hold of and as you say, not really expensive either. Better safe than sorry.

[Zelandeth]

3 hours ago, St.Jude said:

This worried me (still does) as you are putting your faith on the shop knowing that the ISO number printed on the hose is correct and that they haven't been conned by someone on AliExpress just writing an ISO number on a hose pipe. 

Can they actually do this? Legally speaking - as I'm buying E10 fuel as advertised. I want the E10 I thought I was buying, I don't want the E5 shit, more numbers is better obvs. 

Joking aside, I really did think they could only sell what they advertise.

The labelling standard means that the fuel is permitted to contain *up to* the quoted percentage of ethanol - it doesn't actually guarantee that it contains any at all.  Hence why Esso still have an E5 sticker on the Supreme 99 pump despite it being ethanol free (for now, if you're in the right area).

[MT606]

On 7/17/2021 at 9:54 AM, Burnside said:

My local Sainsbury's have also changed there pumps when I filled up yesterday, but when I asked the cashier about it. They told me that it was still E5 as they won't get E10 till September ish. 

I did the  same with my local tesco, apparently they are gettin labelled up from a fair amount of time early so that all are done by the 1st sept 'apparently'...... also one of the doris's at the till didn't even know what I was on about when I asked if the e10 rubbish is already in use.....