E10 fuel

[DSdriver]

Quote

All Saab vehicles with petrol engines produced since the mid 1980’s are cleared for use with E10 petrol. Owners of vehicles produced up to the mid-1980s should consult their dealer

Hmm... that could be a problem

[bicycle repairman]

i get around by sticking ford sierra diesel in my cortina lol,

[Spurious]

It looks like the Primera doesn't agree with it. 

Hmm. Do I just say sod it and run whatever in it or do I stick to Tesco Momentum. 

I could advance the timing perhaps with 99 octane for a few horses. Maybe..  

[Tadhg Tiogar]

12 minutes ago, Spurious said:

..... do I stick to Tesco Momentum. .....  

One thing is for certain: Momentum is much better in a car than it is in politics. 

[dollywobbler]

Here in rural Wales, I'm pretty much screwed. Nowhere near here stocks super at all. It's just practical to drive a 36-mile round trip just to refuel.

So I guess I'll be using my fleet to experiment. Hopefully these experiments don't result in fire.

[Spurious]

6 minutes ago, dollywobbler said:

Here in rural Wales, I'm pretty much screwed. Nowhere near here stocks super at all. It's just practical to drive a 36-mile round trip just to refuel.

So I guess I'll be using my fleet to experiment. Hopefully these experiments don't result in fire.

There's allegedly exemptions for Rural parts of Scotland to continue supplying E5 95 octane. And these stabilising additives are pretty pricey per small little bottle. 

You'd wonder which criteria they used to define how rural you could be and why couldn't it be applied to areas like parts of Wales, Cumbria, Yorkshire, Northumberland etc. 

I don't know how much of this is scaremongering or how much of it carries a real risk of damage. Allegedly the USA has been using E10 for years and there's plenty running absolute ancient tat over there and I don't remember hearing about how damaging it is... 

[Andrew353w]

I've nothing more than a G.C.E. "O" level in chemistry, so freely admit that I don't fully understand what all this means, but I was under the impression that petrol additives are nothing new. I well remember National Benzole 

having something added (I think it was an alcohol additive) to it, and that, because of this, some drivers wouldn't use it. It was around until the late 1970s, but I don't know what happened to their forecourts or who bought them out. Did this fuel affect the fuel lines or didn't it matter? 

[808 Estate]

Bloody vegetarian petrol.

Luckily, I burn oil.

 

[Tadhg Tiogar]

14 hours ago, dollywobbler said:

Here in rural Wales, I'm pretty much screwed. Nowhere near here stocks super at all. It's just practical to drive a 36-mile round trip just to refuel....

I'm staying near Llandysul at the moment. There's only the one filling station there (Shell), and I can't remember if they have V-Power....

[myglaren]

16 hours ago, Spurious said:

I don't know how much of this is scaremongering or how much of it carries a real risk of damage. Allegedly the USA has been using E10 for years and there's plenty running absolute ancient tat over there and I don't remember hearing about how damaging it is... 

I read recently that they also use E85 there!

Re: the SAABs.  SAAB had an Aero-X that ran on E100.  Never went into production but may need something similar now.

Was a GM V6 adapted for Vodka.

Volvo had busses and cars running around Gothenburg on meths in the seventies.

A better use of ethanol.

 

[GeordieInExile]

Probably should have checked this *before* I put E10 in the ol' Volvo yesterday... Ah well. Website says it'll be grand so that's good enough for me.

[MJK 24]

We could just use something like this?

https://www.toolstation.com/b3c-ethanol-shield-fuel-stabiliser/p19760?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=PaidSocial&utm_campaign=23847777330380219||TS5_AlwaysOn_PaidSocial_Prospecting_Conversions&utm_term=23847777427020219||TS5_AlwaysOn_FBIG_Prospecting_Lookalikes_UK_Generic||TS5_AlwaysOn_PaidSocial_Prospecting_Conversions&utm_content=23847790977400219||TS5_AlwaysOn_Prospecting_Lookalikes_Generic_DPACarousel_AllProducts-Copy3-Price||TS5_AlwaysOn_FBIG_Prospecting_Lookalikes_UK_Generic||TS5_AlwaysOn_PaidSocial_Prospecting_Conversions&fbclid=IwAR27h7nrGyM67IJASi1kZIkx01cybVhSX31SksN18CZORot0Kov85NR7Bl0#full-desc

[Fumbler]

I wonder if the damage caused will be big- if it is, we might see a better selection of ethanol-resistant fuel lines and seals start turning up to keep vehicles running and safe. I'll use my cars on whatever's cheapest and see what happens. I can't imagine much will happen if I use them regularly: if I have them laid-up for extended periods, I'll put some E5 in and call it a day.

[DSdriver]

18 hours ago, Andrew353w said:

I've nothing more than a G.C.E. "O" level in chemistry, so freely admit that I don't fully understand what all this means, but I was under the impression that petrol additives are nothing new. I well remember National Benzole 

having something added (I think it was an alcohol additive) to it, and that, because of this, some drivers wouldn't use it. It was around until the late 1970s, but I don't know what happened to their forecourts or who bought them out. Did this fuel affect the fuel lines or didn't it matter? 

Back in the 70s Esso petrol was to be avoided because it came out of wells with a red clay in the oil. You would open up the carb and find a red sludge in the bottom of the float chamber.

[DSdriver]

I bought a tank of Shell Super the other evening and was shocked at how much they have loaded the price. £1.49 a litre was expected when oil was $100 a barrel but it is only $75 at the moment.

I stopped the pump when the dial went over £100.00 :(

[willswitchengage]

As ethanol has a lower energy density mass volume and mass mass than gasoline will we expect a mpg penalty as a result of this change? It'd probably only be about 1% though.

Also Googling a few academic papers suggest gasoline-ethanol mixes are likely to deteriorate far quicker through volatile evaporation than water absorprtion, i.e. the general 'stale petrol' issue.

[Fumbler]

 

This doesn't test damage but shows a 4% reduction in fuel efficiency between E10 and non-ethanol fuel. Not much, all things considered.

[St.Jude]

11 hours ago, myglaren said:

I read recently that they also use E85 there!

Re: the SAABs.  SAAB had an Aero-X that ran on E100.  Never went into production but may need something similar now.

Was a GM V6 adapted for Vodka.

Volvo had busses and cars running around Gothenburg on meths in the seventies.

A better use of ethanol.

 

Can confirm that you often get E85 at the pump - but not all states etc.

I think in Europe they also run E85. But I'm relying on my memory there after a few bottle of horrible raspberry sours beer.

[MJK 24]

1 hour ago, St.Jude said:

Can confirm that you often get E85 at the pump - but not all states etc.

I think in Europe they also run E85. But I'm relying on my memory there after a few bottle of horrible raspberry sours beer.

Morrisons sold E85 for a period approx 10 years ago?

[myglaren]

18 hours ago, DSdriver said:

Back in the 70s Esso petrol was to be avoided because it came out of wells with a red clay in the oil. You would open up the carb and find a red sludge in the bottom of the float chamber.

My dad would never use Esso petrol, said it was full of crap and worse when the dredger was operating - garage next to the harbour.

He worked for the company that owned the garage and often did work there himself, although he was a marine engineer in their boatyard.

That was in the late fifties and onwards.

[tooSavvy]

I asked about [my engine specifically] on the GeoMetro forum.

Septics have real bad gas (85 RON?) and lots of corn in it....

Someone piped up less an issue if you use lots (frequent refills) and the engine injection is a 'loop back/tank return' so everything is constantly being churned... I think the water-separation issue is worse with static fuel lines..??

I'm of the opinion that E10 will likely kill the car.... after I sell it in, like 4yr....

 

[PhilA]

Only advantage I have found to it is that I can dial in a significant amount of ignition advance without the car getting unhappy. Beyond that, for an older carbureted car the benefits are minimal and the issues presented are fairly significant.

 

But we shouldn't be driving old cars, says them.

 

Standard E10 here is 87 (R+M)/2, which equates to about 91 RON. Colder climates aren't too bad but hot humid areas the water ingress issue is significant, particularly if the vehicle has a vented fuel system. Fully closed systems that don't cycle air in and out (just draw in as the fuel level drops in the tank) are less susceptible. 

It just means the actual gasoline can be about 85 octane and the ethanol boosts the index up.

[DSdriver]

US garages sell ethanol free fuel in areas where people fill their boats on trailers. I wonder if we will be able to get it in British Marinas.

[PhilA]

30 minutes ago, DSdriver said:

US garages sell ethanol free fuel in areas where people fill their boats on trailers. I wonder if we will be able to get it in British Marinas.

No, only Allegros.

[dome]

Found this link which claims to show how to remove the ethanol from petrol.

https://youtu.be/b9mLbuUSt-0

No idea how true it is though so don't hold me to it!

 

[St.Jude]

Just an FYI - I went to Sainsbury's this morning to put petrol in the wife's car (she's above such a thing apparently) and their Unleaded is now E10 - but their Super Unleaded is still E5.

So if you're worried, it'd be an idea to start checking the pumps now, as they seem to be rolling it out early.

[JJ0063]

Surprised to see the checker shows any age BMW can run it, thought the E30 being 33 years old might cause me issues. 

[Kiltox]

1 hour ago, St.Jude said:

Just an FYI - I went to Sainsbury's this morning to put petrol in the wife's car (she's above such a thing apparently) and their Unleaded is now E10 - but their Super Unleaded is still E5.

So if you're worried, it'd be an idea to start checking the pumps now, as they seem to be rolling it out early.

Was also surprised by this yesterday when filling the banana Benz - I hardly ever buy petrol but I wasn’t expecting it to have come in so early. 

[TheOtherStu]

1 hour ago, JJ0063 said:

Surprised to see the checker shows any age BMW can run it, thought the E30 being 33 years old might cause me issues. 

I thought the checker only did cars from 2001 onwards?

On 6/28/2021 at 10:27 AM, myglaren said:

That was in the late fifties and onwards.

These days, the base fuel all comes from the same place. The only difference is the additives.

[willswitchengage]

2 hours ago, St.Jude said:

Just an FYI - I went to Sainsbury's this morning to put petrol in the wife's car (she's above such a thing apparently) and their Unleaded is now E10

I guess that as the E5 specification falls within E10, everybody's going to do this? I.e. fuel will still contain something like 4% ethanol, it'll go up to 10 over the years as the refining industry moves on and the price of ethanol moves around. I wonder where it gets mixed? The refinery itself?