Oh You Lucky People....

[Jerzy Woking]

We all know how simple it is to register a privately purchased second hand vehicle in the UK, all done on line very, very quickly, and no costs. 

That is not the case in Spain's Valencian Province (other provinces have different variations on this), far from it, as I have just experienced.

Once you found something you like and agreed the price, a sales contract has to be written with the seller.

This has to state the date and, importantly, the time of the sale. You need to write the full names and addresses of both seller and buyer, as well as both parties  tax identification number (NIE).

Next you have to write in details of the vehicle (make, model, registration, VIN number and mileage), and the price paid.

You will need to take a photocopy/photo of the sellers identity document/passport AND their NIE certificate and leave a copy of your ID along with the contract, signed by the seller and buyer. Once you have done all this, and paid the money, then the vehicle, along with all its documents, and importantly, its keys, its yours.

The contract states that the change of ownership process is for the BUYER to complete. So now the seller washes his hands of the vehicle, and you now have 30 days to register the vehicle with the Traffico office.

Any offences commited or fines incurred after the time on the contract, is the buyers responsibility.

So now you assemble the documents you need to take to the Traffico office, these being:

• Contract of sale
• Sellers NIE and ID
• Your NIE and Spanish Residency card/passport
• The vehicles log book (Permiso de Circulation)
• The vehicles ITV (the equivalent of an MoT)
• Proof that the Impuesto de Circulacion (road tax) has been paid for the previous year (usually paid in June)

The nearest office of the Dirección General de Tráfico to me is 30 miles away. I took them there (had to make an appointment first) to hand them over, and they checked that everything was correct.

You will also have to pay the transfer charge (my bike was €55.15) PLUS a sales tax (mine was €35). I was waiting for about 30 minutes for this to be calculated, and paid by debit card (cash not accepted).

I was told the Permiso de Circulation in my name would  will be posted to me, and i should get it in 3 days or so.

If you dont want to visit their office, there are a number of  gestors(solicitors) who complete the process on your behalf. They will charge upwards of €50 to do so, but its not so difficult to present do this all yourself.

TL:DR. In Spain just buy new or from a dealer if you don't like hassle.

[New POD]

Is there less vehicle theft ? 

[Jerzy Woking]

33 minutes ago, New POD said:

Is there less vehicle theft ? 

I don't know anyone here that has had a car or motorbike stolen. Rarely see any motorbikes with locks on (it may be different in big cities like Madrid or Barcelona)

I do find it a bit odd that you have to have all your documents in the car or on the bike when you are out driving/riding.

[hairnet]

no wonder the guy with the kadett i was falling over myself to buy (showed him pics of the money) didnt seem interested.................

shame

 

[Jerzy Woking]

Now I've been through this rigmarole as a buyer, I can't see any issues in selling my Triumph.

The responsibility, and expense for the transfer, is all for the buyer. Once I have a copies of the sales contract and their ID, its "adios amigo".

[Jazoli]

Yup it's a pain in the arse and ridiculous compared to our system here in the UK which is fantastic, I owned 2 cars and 2 bikes in 9 years in Spain, here in the UK in 11 years after returning I've had around 20 cars and 14 bikes, go figure....

[sutty2006]

I think this thread should be “the most complicated vehicle transfer topic” and we should see which countries rank where, when it comes to the buy/sell of a car. We all know the Uk is pretty easy and Spain is pretty hard.... is there anywhere else as difficult?

[mk2_craig]

I'm not very knowledgeable about these things but I was once told that in Italy if you want to sell a car for further use you have to get a solicitor involved. (may* be a slight embellishment of the actual situation)

On the other hand it's dead simple here in Jersey. No transfer fee, no annual road tax to worry about, no MoT for most vehicles, just buyers details and both parties' signatures, then insure* and off you go.  Importation and first registration is a bit less straightforward and more spendy though.  No online change of ownership facility yet either.

[outlaw118]

12 hours ago, Jerzy Woking said:

Your NIE and Spanish Residency card/passport

So "foreigners" can't buy stuff? Or are there different rules? Have often thought about buying something (Renault 7) and driving it back, but never got past the "what if" stage. 

Sounds like a massive ballache.

[Tadhg Tiogar]

9 minutes ago, outlaw118 said:

So "foreigners" can't buy stuff? Or are there different rules? Have often thought about buying something (Renault 7) and driving it back, but never got past the "what if" stage. 

Sounds like a massive ballache.

I wonder how @panhard65 got round this, then. He didn't seem to have any trouble bringing Spanish chod back to Britain....

[Jerzy Woking]

1 hour ago, outlaw118 said:

So "foreigners" can't buy stuff? Or are there different rules? Have often thought about buying something (Renault 7) and driving it back, but never got past the "what if" stage. 

Sounds like a massive ballache.

If you are going to take it back to the UK, then you are presumably not going to register it in your name in Spain. You can still fill in a sales contract and use your passport as ID.

You do get 30 days to notify the DGT of the change in ownership, so I see it, you have 30 days to get it out of Spain. Not entirely sure of the legalities of it though, so best to check. Plus of course there is the question of getting it into the UK now, Post Brexit

Incidentally, I saw my first Renault 7 here a couple of years ago, oddly appealing. Not seen another one since.

[Jerzy Woking]

3 hours ago, Jazoli said:

Yup it's a pain in the arse and ridiculous compared to our system here in the UK which is fantastic, I owned 2 cars and 2 bikes in 9 years in Spain, here in the UK in 11 years after returning I've had around 20 cars and 14 bikes, go figure....

I have had an NIE number for years, as i had to deal with my late parents estate here.

I promised myself when I came here that I  would only have one bike and one car. 

Of course, promises are meant to be broken, so now have one car and three bikes. And sod the expense!

As my mate constantly tells me, "shrouds don't have pockets".

[Tadhg Tiogar]

3 hours ago, mk2_craig said:

I'm not very knowledgeable about these things but I was once told that in Italy if you want to sell a car for further use you have to get a solicitor involved. (may* be a slight embellishment of the actual situation)....

Italy is a nightmare, if I understand it correctly.

Basic info here

More basic info

[barefoot]

Odd though isn't it?

The complex process seems to keep the value of the vehicle up, whereas over here it's so easy to do that folk think 'I can't be arsed' and scrap a perfectly useable, but worthless motor car.

[panhard65]

On 4/27/2021 at 9:21 AM, Tadhg Tiogar said:

I wonder how @panhard65 got round this, then. He didn't seem to have any trouble bringing Spanish chod back to Britain....

The easy answer is I got lucky buying my first one as all the seller wanted was a copy of my passport. The second one wasn't as easy as the car had no ITV. I had a bit of grief from the Spanish police at the port and never received the original paperwork which made UK registration difficult. I have just bought a Dodge 3700GT in Ourense it wasn't easy but the transport company are sorting all the paperwork including the UK NOVA. They are charging 200 euro for sorting it though. It is cheaper and easier to import from pretty much anywhere else but if you want something Spanish market only then there isn't much choice. One thing I found is the Spanish will not haggle the price they advertise is the price they will accept no haggling.

[Tadhg Tiogar]

24 minutes ago, panhard65 said:

..... One thing I found is the Spanish will not haggle the price they advertise is the price they will accept no haggling.

Something British sellers can learn from.

[andy18s]

Pretty much the same in Bulgaria except all of the various charges are based on the value of the vehicle. 

This can lead to most cars only costing 500lev,with the rest going into the sellers back pocket.

The Notary charges a flat fee and as such isn't bothered.

If you're hoing to register it then a residency card is needed

Seller must prove all documents are up to date and all municipal and local taxes are paid.

The new owner is responsible for getting the vehicle to the local Kat office for it's inspection and until recently new plates.

It is possible to keep the plates that are on the vehicle now,as up to late last year the area specific plates had to be changed if the vehicle went from Sofia to Veliko Tarnovo for example. 

Much of the process demands many forms to be written in Bulgarian, luckily enough there are plenty of fixers who do all the legwork once you sign them a power of attorney  and pay a nominal fee around €25

No appointments, you turn up and join the usually large queue, or send your rep in

A week or so later you go and collect your new Talon and thats it

 

[Rocket88]

On 4/27/2021 at 8:26 AM, mk2_craig said:

I'm not very knowledgeable about these things but I was once told that in Italy if you want to sell a car for further use you have to get a solicitor involved. (may* be a slight embellishment of the actual situation)

On the other hand it's dead simple here in Jersey. No transfer fee, no annual road tax to worry about, no MoT for most vehicles, just buyers details and both parties' signatures, then insure* and off you go.  Importation and first registration is a bit less straightforward and more spendy though.  No online change of ownership facility yet either.

Importation into Jersey was always a massive ball ache.....DVS ( equivalent of DVLA) inspectors were either entirely reasonable or complete halfwits......

 

[Isaac Hunt]

Reminded me of a uk registration transfer years ago.  The first one it did, I had to go to the DVLA office in centre of Birmingham.  

Proper dingy place it was.  You walk in and all of a sudden all these faces are staring at you.  Then you realise it’s cos they've all been waiting for so long, they are bored shitless.  No smart phones back then to loose yourself in for a hour.

you take a numbered ticket and dump your arse into one of those plastic chairs and join the long wait.

when your number is ready, you were called to one of the counters where ‘Ms’ with a face like a bulldog chewing a wasp, gruffly utters ‘wit u ere fir’.  The reply of registration transfer is greeted with a crescendo of required paperwork rattled of in quick succession.  You push the paperwork under the pre- covid screen and withdraw your hand before the date received stamp crashes across your fingers.  There is much more stamping and shuffling and eventually a fee is uttered at you.  

You hand over the cash and get told you can now display the plates and you will get the V5 as it was back then, through in a couple of weeks.

You leave feeling somewhat grateful to still be alive.   Presumably those with the wrong paperwork never made it out alive.

[Tadhg Tiogar]

11 minutes ago, Isaac Hunt said:

Reminded me of a uk registration transfer years ago.  The first one it did, I had to go to the DVLA office in centre of Birmingham.  

Proper dingy place it was.  You walk in and all of a sudden all these faces are staring at you.  Then you realise it’s cos they've all been waiting for so long, they are bored shitless.  No smart phones back then to loose yourself in for a hour.

you take a numbered ticket and dump your arse into one of those plastic chairs and join the long wait.

when your number is ready, you were called to one of the counters where ‘Ms’ with a face like a bulldog chewing a wasp, gruffly utters ‘wit u ere fir’.  The reply of registration transfer is greeted with a crescendo of required paperwork rattled of in quick succession.  You push the paperwork under the pre- covid screen and withdraw your hand before the date received stamp crashes across your fingers.  There is much more stamping and shuffling and eventually a fee is uttered at you.  

You hand over the cash and get told you can now display the plates and you will get the V5 as it was back then, through in a couple of weeks.

You leave feeling somewhat grateful to still be alive.   Presumably those with the wrong paperwork never made it out alive.

I think similar tales are told about French and American licencing offices....

Sinks of despair, ennui, and all the gripping drama of a dripping tap in a Scandinavian film noir.

[Spurious]

That's the back page of the VLC in Ireland (The logbook, the V5 here).  New owner fills it in, away it goes, new VLC in fortnight or so.  That's it really for Ireland. 

It's the sellers responsibility to post it.  And quite often I'd bring the buyer to a post box so they can see it go on it's way.  Many of the tale of the buyer taking the VLC, saying they'll sort the post out (handy!)  only to find fines for speeding arriving in the post two month later.  Happened to my dad who'd to sign an oath to a Solicitor to say he'd sold the vehicle when a fine landed through the door three months after selling it before the Gardai would wipe the fine.

No online system in Ireland just yet...

[Jerzy Woking]

14 hours ago, Spurious said:

It's the sellers responsibility to post it.  And quite often I'd bring the buyer to a post box so they can see it go on it's way.  Many of the tale of the buyer taking the VLC, saying they'll sort the post out (handy!)  only to find fines for speeding arriving in the post two month later.  Happened to my dad who'd to sign an oath to a Solicitor to say he'd sold the vehicle when a fine landed through the door three months after selling it before the Gardai would wipe the fine...

I really like the sales contract template that is on the official DGT website here. Seller and buyer fill it in, date and time it, then sign it. Buyer can then photograph/scan it, and sent it to seller by email or WhatApp. Will save any arguments over future fines or tax payment requests.

As you can transfer ownership in the UK on line, which gives you a clear audit trail of when it was transferred, probably a bit superfluous for a sale.

[bezzabsa]

18 hours ago, Isaac Hunt said:

Reminded me of a uk registration transfer years ago.  The first one it did, I had to go to the DVLA office in centre of Birmingham.  

Proper dingy place it was.  You walk in and all of a sudden all these faces are staring at you.  Then you realise it’s cos they've all been waiting for so long, they are bored shitless.  No smart phones back then to loose yourself in for a hour.

you take a numbered ticket and dump your arse into one of those plastic chairs and join the long wait.

when your number is ready, you were called to one of the counters where ‘Ms’ with a face like a bulldog chewing a wasp, gruffly utters ‘wit u ere fir’.  The reply of registration transfer is greeted with a crescendo of required paperwork rattled of in quick succession.  You push the paperwork under the pre- covid screen and withdraw your hand before the date received stamp crashes across your fingers.  There is much more stamping and shuffling and eventually a fee is uttered at you.  

You hand over the cash and get told you can now display the plates and you will get the V5 as it was back then, through in a couple of weeks.

You leave feeling somewhat grateful to still be alive.   Presumably those with the wrong paperwork never made it out alive.

I had the "joy" of that place when buying a disabled tax pajero, had to go there to get it re done as normal tax....place sucks the life out of you..sure there was a bloke crying in the corner!!

[puddlethumper]

1 hour ago, bezzabsa said:

I had the "joy" of that place when buying a disabled tax pajero, had to go there to get it re done as normal tax....place sucks the life out of you..sure there was a bloke crying in the corner!!

Me too. Twice !!

[artdjones]

23 hours ago, Spurious said:

That's the back page of the VLC in Ireland (The logbook, the V5 here).  New owner fills it in, away it goes, new VLC in fortnight or so.  That's it really for Ireland. 

It's the sellers responsibility to post it.  And quite often I'd bring the buyer to a post box so they can see it go on it's way.  Many of the tale of the buyer taking the VLC, saying they'll sort the post out (handy!)  only to find fines for speeding arriving in the post two month later.  Happened to my dad who'd to sign an oath to a Solicitor to say he'd sold the vehicle when a fine landed through the door three months after selling it before the Gardai would wipe the fine.

No online system in Ireland just yet...

There is an online system but it's only for authorised motor traders.

[RichardK]

On 5/4/2021 at 4:07 PM, puddlethumper said:

Me too. Twice !!

I used to love going to the local VRO. Would much rather do that to sort the Tavria than all this remote 'computer says no' nonsense.