Masha - ЗАЗ Таврiя (ZAZ Tavria) - Слава Україні (#SlavaUkraini) - let's get legal! (Then decide).

[RichardK]

IT IS NOW INSURED

Holy crap that was a faff, and it's not cheap (by my standards) but it's covered and I got the kind of breakdown cover that takes you home, seems prudent with a car that hasn't been used for 26 years.

MOT is the next step, which I'm chasing up (I don't want it to be subject to a forensic one because I'll be using beam-benders on the lights and I'm sure a garage looking for some extra work could find PLENTY on it if they wanted to despite the miles) and then we're rolling.

Lancaster were the chosen ones in the end, and they did try hard and were very nice. They also discounted said breakdown cover in case I get an admin fee for the registration number change when it's registered.

I'm registering it as a ZAZ 110206 TAVRIA, as that's the most accurate - other Zapos I can find in the UK (well, both of them) are ZAZ 968+stuff and the red one's plate shows up as a Zaporozhets Tavria which annoys my inner pedant.

Really wishing I could just send the DVLA a club/manufacturer letter instead of losing the original docs.

[LightBulbFun]

2 hours ago, RichardK said:

Really wishing I could just send the DVLA a club/manufacturer letter instead of losing the original docs.

I think you can, nothing says you HAVE to send them the original docs, its just 1 way of getting a vehicle registered 

the other way is as you say is get a dating letter and registered that way (and then you can keep any documents or such)

https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/registering-an-imported-vehicle

Quote

If you do not have the original foreign registration certificate, DVLA might accept other proof of the manufacture date, for example a letter from the manufacturer or a vehicle enthusiast club.

they dont need to know you have whatever the soviet equivalent of a V5 is...

 

[Mrs6C]

2 hours ago, RichardK said:

the original docs.

You would of course be keeping hi-res scanned copies of any documents sent to the DVLA?

[St.Jude]

12 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

You would of course be keeping hi-res scanned copies of any documents sent to the DVLA?

This. This this this. You don't get them back.

My one and only experience of registering a foreign car was the Lada, and I had to send the Lithuanian equivalent log book and last MOT certificate. I didn't need the letter of saying it's a real car (or whatever it's called, the conformity one) as it was sold in the UK and the EU. 

Now, given we're in this post apocalyptic world that has nothing to do with Brexshit, I'm not sure if the EU conformity counts. But, if it were me, I would fill in the form as best I can for the Swansea overlords and just chance it. 

The worst thing that can happen is you get a phone call from one of those mouth breathers asking you what fuel it uses.

[RichardK]

24 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

I think you can, nothing says you HAVE to send them the original docs, its just 1 way of getting a vehicle registered 

the other way is as you say is get a dating letter and registered that way (and then you can keep any documents or such)

https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/registering-an-imported-vehicle

they dont need to know you have whatever the soviet equivalent of a V5 is...

 

The problem with the dating letter is “what authority recognises a ZAZ Tavria that the DVLA will accept”, otherwise I’m all for that…

 

15 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

You would of course be keeping hi-res scanned copies of any documents sent to the DVLA?

Absolutely! I’m also copying the service book so I can translate it.

Masha’s birthday seems to be 11th July 1995.

Starting tidying for MOT - few grubby bits. Need to secure the battery and some bits of metal manage to look worrying but aren’t (I have a parts manual now so I’m making notes of part numbers - the part to hold the screenwash bottle is from a 968!) so as long as they’re not arses about the headlights should be easy…

[RichardK]

5 minutes ago, St.Jude said:

This. This this this. You don't get them back.

My one and only experience of registering a foreign car was the Lada, and I had to send the Lithuanian equivalent log book and last MOT certificate. I didn't need the letter of saying it's a real car (or whatever it's called, the conformity one) as it was sold in the UK and the EU. 

Now, given we're in this post apocalyptic world that has nothing to do with Brexshit, I'm not sure if the EU conformity counts. But, if it were me, I would fill in the form as best I can for the Swansea overlords and just chance it. 

The worst thing that can happen is you get a phone call from one of those mouth breathers asking you what fuel it uses.

Conformity isn’t an issue as it’s over 10 years old - the MOT is sufficient. I can send a copy of the Russian logbook but they may notice the hologram isn’t a hologram

[LightBulbFun]

14 minutes ago, St.Jude said:

This. This this this. You don't get them back.

My one and only experience of registering a foreign car was the Lada, and I had to send the Lithuanian equivalent log book and last MOT certificate. I didn't need the letter of saying it's a real car (or whatever it's called, the conformity one) as it was sold in the UK and the EU. 

Now, given we're in this post apocalyptic world that has nothing to do with Brexshit, I'm not sure if the EU conformity counts. But, if it were me, I would fill in the form as best I can for the Swansea overlords and just chance it. 

The worst thing that can happen is you get a phone call from one of those mouth breathers asking you what fuel it uses.

any car over 10 years old does not need Type approval no mater where it came from etc so you dont have to worry about that

registering imported vintage vehicles in the UK is the same for any vintage vehicle, only if its an import theres the whole NOVA stuff but otherwise its the same, as if you found a Lanchester in a Barn somewhere that never made it onto the computer system

just a V55/5 and some proof of age!  

9 minutes ago, RichardK said:

The problem with the dating letter is “what authority recognises a ZAZ Tavria that the DVLA will accept”, otherwise I’m all for that…

perhaps it might be worth contacting @strangeangel since he managed to import a Tula which really did not have any documents so he had no choice but to get it dated somehow...

where theres a will theres a way as they say!  

 

all it boils down to, is the DVLA just want to know what year the vehicle was manufactured, they dont care about much else much in actuality 

[RichardK]

Weirdly I’d swear the battery isn’t right but it is. 207 x 175 x 190mm, 6CT-44A in Russian/063 in Halfords, and other sites suggest an 078 which is even bigger! The way it was in doesn’t match the pictures, but I can’t see how else it goes or how to secure it.

[St.Jude]

6 minutes ago, RichardK said:

Conformity isn’t an issue as it’s over 10 years old - the MOT is sufficient. I can send a copy of the Russian logbook but they may notice the hologram isn’t a hologram

You need to send the originals I'm afraid.

Although I reckon they won't be as hot on it as you think.

[Bitzer]

 

12 hours ago, RichardK said:

horrors of Renaults' five-start megabarge bloat and Modus that could drive through a Volvo?

What was wrong with five star Renaults (apart from Megane II being utter shite and the worst car I had the misfortune of owning)? That they made Volvo look like an opened can of sardines?

My opinion is that Volvo safety is nothing but an urban legend originating from a clever marketing during sixties. But it may be I simply do not like the brand. Or ABBA. Or Akvavit. Or IKEA.

Saab, on the other hand...

[Zelandeth]

47 minutes ago, RichardK said:

...Masha’s birthday seems to be 11th July 1995...

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this will effectively mean that this car has to pass the same MOT as any other vehicle built in 1995 - thing which is ringing alarm bells for me is emissions.  Cats became mandatory on new vehicles in the UK from 93, and unless specific values are on the book for the model it will be tested to the default numbers - so fast idle: <0.3% CO <200ppm HC and lambda 0.970-1.030, and natural idle: <0.5% CO. 

Or do imported vehicles dodge this requirement somehow?

[LightBulbFun]

24 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this will effectively mean that this car has to pass the same MOT as any other vehicle built in 1995 - thing which is ringing alarm bells for me is emissions.  Cats became mandatory on new vehicles in the UK from 93, and unless specific values are on the book for the model it will be tested to the default numbers - so fast idle: <0.3% CO <200ppm HC and lambda 0.970-1.030, and natural idle: <0.5% CO. 

Or do imported vehicles dodge this requirement somehow?

Good question!, I dont quite know the ins and outs of it

but I do know that imports and things not on the usual system etc do get some kind of leeway but I dont know the exact specifics of it

I think if im reading this correctly @RichardK should be in the clear 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/676700/in-service-exhaust-emission-standards-for-road-vehicles-19th-edition.pdf

[RichardK]

1 hour ago, Bitzer said:

 

What was wrong with five star Renaults (apart from Megane II being utter shite and the worst car I had the misfortune of owning)? That they made Volvo look like an opened can of sardines?

My opinion is that Volvo safety is nothing but an urban legend originating from a clever marketing during sixties. But it may be I simply do not like the brand. Or ABBA. Or Akvavit. Or IKEA.

Saab, on the other hand...

They were excessively heavy, with A-pillars so thick you wouldn't see what you were going to hit in the first place, and the rest of the car was designed to be obsolete purposefully. They started an arms race in making cars that would put resisting a very specific set of test parameters ahead of lightness, visibility and economy, and they did it by being armoured rather than 'clever'.

They were part of the same mindset that has got everyone driving around in miniature tanks instead of small, efficient cars that are fit for purpose, and I'm generally not a fan of such things. If I were I wouldn't find a Tavria appealing

And no, Volvo safety was very much relative - but the fact that a Volvo 740 was once a strong car yet you could see out of it and generally crash it into a tree and be okay, yet it couldn't survive an impact with an ugly little spud of a Modus, highlighted the issue with filling the roads with ugly little spuds that ultimately disconnected the driver from the experience of driving, thus ensuring that urban road speeds increased, attentiveness dropped, and the need for things like city safe braking and self-steering became rather pressing. Most people seem to have no idea how rapidly they accelerate their diesel hatchbacks away from the lights, etc.

1 hour ago, Zelandeth said:

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this will effectively mean that this car has to pass the same MOT as any other vehicle built in 1995 - thing which is ringing alarm bells for me is emissions.  Cats became mandatory on new vehicles in the UK from 93, and unless specific values are on the book for the model it will be tested to the default numbers - so fast idle: <0.3% CO <200ppm HC and lambda 0.970-1.030, and natural idle: <0.5% CO. 

Or do imported vehicles dodge this requirement somehow?

AFAIK it shouldn't be an issue. But it'll get a healthy run and it's running well, with just 1600km on it. Should have another 10,000km before the rings are worn like a 3 year old CVH, if the contemporary reports of Tavrias are anything to go by

For fun, here's how the front brakes work.

Also NO SERVO. No wonder the brakes are like trying to stop a Land Rover.

Speaking of Fiestas, this colour image of the 1102 1982 prototype is quite revealing...

Oh, and for the MOT test... there's no year of manufacture to refer to from the VIN or otherwise, so the tester basically has whatever year I tell them to go on. If 1995 is a problem and 1994 isn't, well, those Soviet waiting times were pretty long.

[barrett]

13 hours ago, RichardK said:

The problem with the dating letter is “what authority recognises a ZAZ Tavria that the DVLA will accept”, otherwise I’m all for that…

I'm sure there is a club in here that would work...

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/928848/V765X1_150920.pdf

Edit: the Wartburg / Trabant / IFA club possibly your best bet

[Fumbler]

Does the Unloved Soviet Register still exist as a club? I remember the Top Gear segment done on them back in the 1990s and they'd seem excellent for helping you along with registering it.

[barrett]

I don't think the USSR still exists, and in any case it's not on the list of approved clubs so wouldn't be much help in this case

[Fumbler]

2 minutes ago, barrett said:

I don't think the USSR still exists, and in any case it's not on the list of approved clubs so wouldn't be much help in this case

Arsebiscuits.

[RichardK]

1 hour ago, barrett said:

I'm sure there is a club in here that would work...

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/928848/V765X1_150920.pdf

Edit: the Wartburg / Trabant / IFA club possibly your best bet

Looks promising, and they're localish too. I'm sure they will know what kind of letter is needed.

Seems a bit daft over a bit of paper, but worth it maybe; if there were some legal structure it would be fine but I assume that they just glance to see 1995 on there somewhere then bin it 😕

[Leyland Worldmaster]

12 hours ago, RichardK said:

They were excessively heavy, with A-pillars so thick you wouldn't see what you were going to hit in the first place, and the rest of the car was designed to be obsolete purposefully. They started an arms race in making cars that would put resisting a very specific set of test parameters ahead of lightness, visibility and economy, and they did it by being armoured rather than 'clever'.

They were part of the same mindset that has got everyone driving around in miniature tanks instead of small, efficient cars that are fit for purpose, and I'm generally not a fan of such things. If I were I wouldn't find a Tavria appealing

And no, Volvo safety was very much relative - but the fact that a Volvo 740 was once a strong car yet you could see out of it and generally crash it into a tree and be okay, yet it couldn't survive an impact with an ugly little spud of a Modus, highlighted the issue with filling the roads with ugly little spuds that ultimately disconnected the driver from the experience of driving, thus ensuring that urban road speeds increased, attentiveness dropped, and the need for things like city safe braking and self-steering became rather pressing. Most people seem to have no idea how rapidly they accelerate their diesel hatchbacks away from the lights, etc.

AFAIK it shouldn't be an issue. But it'll get a healthy run and it's running well, with just 1600km on it. Should have another 10,000km before the rings are worn like a 3 year old CVH, if the contemporary reports of Tavrias are anything to go by

For fun, here's how the front brakes work.

Also NO SERVO. No wonder the brakes are like trying to stop a Land Rover.

Speaking of Fiestas, this colour image of the 1102 1982 prototype is quite revealing...

Oh, and for the MOT test... there's no year of manufacture to refer to from the VIN or otherwise, so the tester basically has whatever year I tell them to go on. If 1995 is a problem and 1994 isn't, well, those Soviet waiting times were pretty long.

https://www.autickar.cz/clanek/zaz-1102-tavria-prosim-uz-ne/

Whilst I was trying to find info on the car pictured... I found this! 👍 👍 👍 😎 😎 😎 

[Dave_Q]

If it's any use here is a dating certificate I got recently for a scooter. The guy that does these recently (ish) changed his wording to suit DVLA requirements but I'm sure the Warty club will know the crack. 

TBH I don't think the DVLA really care much what it says provided it comes from someone on their approved list, is stamped/signed and the original is sent not a copy.

[RichardK]

25 minutes ago, Leyland Worldmaster said:

https://www.autickar.cz/clanek/zaz-1102-tavria-prosim-uz-ne/

Whilst I was trying to find info on the car pictured... I found this! 👍 👍 👍 😎 😎 😎 

https://www.kolesa.ru/article/dizayn-ot-vosmerki-motor-ot-nee-zhe-i-plokhaya-konstruktsiya-mify-i-fakty-o-zaz-1102-tavriya

Eventually I'll paraphrase/transilliterate a load of these articles into one English one once I've found enough sources to pull together for cohesive facts.

[RichardK]

1 hour ago, Dave_Q said:

If it's any use here is a dating certificate I got recently for a scooter. The guy that does these recently (ish) changed his wording to suit DVLA requirements but I'm sure the Warty club will know the crack. 

TBH I don't think the DVLA really care much what it says provided it comes from someone on their approved list, is stamped/signed and the original is sent not a copy.

That is the most immensely useful thing ever, thankyou!

[Dave_Q]

No worries. I just noticed I left my address on the letter so I edited the photo/post, can you please edit your quote to quote the new pic?

Thanks.

[JMotor]

15 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

Or do imported vehicles dodge this requirement somehow?

You can. If you have a letter from the manufacturer stating it doesn't conform to the regs.

My South African built Opel has passed a couple of tests in my ownership without a cat fitted. It's was built in 1995 too. I just tell the tester about the note and then say it's been tested like that at another station (with proof of the last MOT cert).  Never had an issue yet.

The letter is just a quick description of why and it's on headed paper. 

[RichardK]

So the MOT is booked for Monday!

Have done my usual 'spray clear waxoyl' into bonnet cavities and around the battery tray (need a battery clamp and I suspect I need a battery that is 063 sized but with terminals the opposite way as the earth is stretched and it doesn't match the parts book) and decided to check out the non-working tail light.

On the plus side, the issue is easy to spot. On the negative side, I doubt I'll get a new unit by Monday - the bulb holders are plastic, clipped onto the PCB, and the offending one is broken and tied together with a bit of wire. I may be able to glue/bodge it but y'all know how I feel about bodges... Availability isn't an issue so much as 'location and shipping speed'.

Removing the connector from the PCB was amusing.

[Zelandeth]

48 minutes ago, RichardK said:

So the MOT is booked for Monday!

Have done my usual 'spray clear waxoyl' into bonnet cavities and around the battery tray (need a battery clamp and I suspect I need a battery that is 063 sized but with terminals the opposite way as the earth is stretched and it doesn't match the parts book) and decided to check out the non-working tail light.

On the plus side, the issue is easy to spot. On the negative side, I doubt I'll get a new unit by Monday - the bulb holders are plastic, clipped onto the PCB, and the offending one is broken and tied together with a bit of wire. I may be able to glue/bodge it but y'all know how I feel about bodges... Availability isn't an issue so much as 'location and shipping speed'.

Removing the connector from the PCB was amusing.

Bungee cord or ratchet strap around the battery will get you through the test if necessary, though not something you'd want to keep in there long term.

Tail lights definitely have echoes of Samara about them...the lamp holders, PCB and the edge connectors onto the loom connector gave me trouble on more or less a daily basis when I had mine.  They were without doubt the single most infuriating aspect of owning the car.

[RichardK]

Are the Samara lamp holders plastic carriers that clip into the PCB with a friction contact onto the board?

If so I may be able to get this through with a Samara light unit rather than trying to get a Tavria unit shipped from some random online marketplace.

(Ah, no, they're like a ribbon PCB so I am assuming the holders are moulded into the frame. Joy!).

[RichardK]

Frustrating small plastic component. In the long run so many solutions, short-term, maybe construct from epoxy. Weekend challenge accepted grudgingly.

[Zelandeth]

That looks absolutely identical to the board behind the lights on my Samara.

Lamp holders look very like the ones Lada used on the Riva too if memory serves... I've got two Riva ones in the garage, let me have a look after dinner as it might well be possible to transplant one...

[RichardK]

7 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

That looks absolutely identical to the board behind the lights on my Samara.

Lamp holders look very like the ones Lada used on the Riva too if memory serves... I've got two Riva ones in the garage, let me have a look after dinner as it might well be possible to transplant one...

That would be awesome if that is the case. At the moment I'm looking at wired holders with spring clips (hoping they'd fit the hole enough to hold) and tapping into the loom with friction, so I've got a solution for Monday if all else fails but raiding a Riva light would be an easy solution.

Making contact with a Ukrainian ZAZ specialist who has an active Facebook presence, and got my parts book from Lithuania without hiccups...