Sh'eds sheds - Fiddly switches

[Sh'Eds]

3 minutes ago, Crackers said:

Looks smart.

Wtf is it?

Chevrolet Tahoe - small version of the Suburban or a Silverado with a boot. 

I am now a soccer mom.

[CaptainBoom]

Good work, someone in the estate where I live has one of these, makes a lovely sound as it thrums past early each morning.

Excellent purchasing there, you should be well proud of that!

[Sh'Eds]

Status update:

Over half way home. Issues found so far:

1. Cd player not working. Luckily I brought some tapes with me too.

2. Central door locking appears not to work on key, may just be a knack to it.

3. Driver's door doesn't open from inside. Do have spare part in boot. Hopefully an easy fix.

4. Tracking / ball joints/ tierods need moderately* urgent attention. Having the steering wheel bucking like a hose with a wasp nest up its arse at 50mph is mildly* invigorating.

[beko1987]

Oh thats cool! 

It looks small in the petrol station but I bet its massive... 

[dome]

Excellent purchase! Good to see some more yank metal on here 

[Sh'Eds]

Home. Collection successful. Got an early start tomorrow for work so must not spend all night researching parts and solutions to common issues....

[Sh'Eds]

10 minutes ago, beko1987 said:

but I bet its massive... 

It's wider and taller than a ford ranger style pickup but about same length. So bulky but not too massive. Saying that parked next to a 3 series estate at the services on way back and it made that look very small.

[tooSavvy]

On my Utoob listings one guy is a 'scrappy picker' and I'm sure he 'hits up' every one of these he finds.... looking for the "boom box" speakers just behind the rear wheelarch.....

So then, like travelling downstairs on a doubledecker.... but no centre aisle

GR9 *with ADDED fuel!

[Sh'Eds]

2 hours ago, tooSavvy said:

like travelling downatairs on a doubledecker.... but no centre aisle

Thanks for the utoob. Looks to be same as experience I had, will watch it properly later and hopefully begin investigation tomorrow.

[Sh'Eds]

I have reading material. 

Proving informative.

[juular]

Nice floor! 

Great buy. I love big American things with displacement measures in inches. I always wanted a van something like this.

[Sh'Eds]

A quick fix today. The driver's door handle was inoperative from inside. 

Luckily a new one was in the boot.

As well as the existing handle being broken the connecting rod was bent out of shape.

A quick straighten and swop of handle and I can open the driver's door without winding the window down. 

Only broke 7000 brittle plastic clips.

[cort1977]

Mmm, very nice.

Particularly like that style of front grille and lights; classically American.

Shouldn't have any problems with parts and they will likely be pretty cheap as well.

[Sh'Eds]

1 hour ago, cort1977 said:

Shouldn't have any problems with parts and they will likely be pretty cheap as well.

Yep, parts easy enough to order from Rockauto with 7million different price points and options. Shipping and VAT soon bump up the headline price but even then it seems to be usually cheaper than some of the UK specialists and often quicker too.

Just put in an order for some pads, track rod ends and droplinks all of which are priority 1 for front end fettling though having had a look today I expect to end up replacing pretty much all bushes, ball joints, shocks etc over time.

[Sh'Eds]

Finally found some time to do a little more work on the Tahoe today. 

First order of the day was removing Mrs Sh'eds garage door so I could fit it in the garage and not block the alley all day in case any of the neighbours were coming in and out, not that many use their garages regularly. Of course the only person I saw all day was the old boy next door who lives on the exist side of the alley to me so I wouldn't have blocked him anyway. 

With the door removed adequate headroom for the Tahoe was available. 

Though it is a little close at the back and I certainly couldn't go further back and still jack the car up. 

Got it up on jack stands and whipped the wheels off. 

Had a look under the car. It looks reasonably solid, obviously been undercoated in the past. Can see why it weighs 3 tonnes when you see how big the chassis rails are. 

 

First job of the day brake pads - these definitely need replacing. 

Of course the caliper was held on with allen head bolts, but being American these were in 'freedom units' and I had none. I had naively hoped they would be metric, on the corvette it tends only to be engine stuff that is imperial with ancillaries and brakes / suspension being  metric. Had to pop out to the shops and could only get allen keys in imperial sizes rather than a allen socket which would have been preferred. 

The finest chinesium sold by machine mart. Was doubtful that these would be up to the job. Was even more doubtful when I found how tight the bolts holding the brake calipers on where. Gave myself 6 hernias but they finally came loose. 

New brake pads promise a lot. I am slightly concerned that most of the £14 that these cost was spent on the carboard box. 

New versus old: 

Once I got these installed it was time for new track rod ends. I only had outers but it is clear that I will need to replace inners soon too as these were also fairly worn. 

Used the grease zert as a measuring point to try and get a reasonable alignment.

Old track rod end looks nasty. 

Most useful tool of the day, which was very much needed to assist in removal of the track rod ends.

New track rod ends installed. 

Didn't find time to change the sway bar links, they aren't broken so can be left for now. Will need to replace control arm bushings and upper and lower ball joints at some point so will most likely do them then. 

Finished up by putting the new wheels on - these being the original fitment with 245/75 tyres, rather than the aftermarket ones that came on the car which were shod with 275/70 tyres and had a larger centre bore, which had necessitated the use of a spacer ring, which may have been a contributing factor in the death wobble. Hopefully having the correct profile tyres on it now will result in the speedo being at least vaguely accurate. 

Done.

 

[stuboy]

lovely beast

[eddyramrod]

I had a modern Tahoe as a rental in 2015 and thought it was excellent, especially after being disappointed with the 99 Blazer I had here.  You've definitely got the right engine in this one.  Long may it serve you!

[brownnova]

Despite being tagged twice further up I still seem to have missed this somehow!!

That is a truly awesome purchase! I was very tempted by a Blazer before I bought the TransSport. But this is even better than a Blazer! Excellent purchasing! I hope you never sell, as I may find it hard to resist! 

[Sh'Eds]

14 hours ago, brownnova said:

the TransSport

Which is all kinds of awesome! 

Took a trip out to the local country park yesterday. The 'red waffle' as the kids have named it serves the utility aspect of SUV well. 

[Ian_Fearn]

I would absolutely bloody love one of these. A Tahoe is just that little bit more suitable for British roads than a Suburban but just as brilliant.

[Schaefft]

GMT400! And in a good color, too! Nice buy, this should last you until the end of times as long as the frame doesnt rot out. And it looks like its far from that happening anytime soon!

[Madman Of The People]

 

Tony Soprano approves!

 

[Sh'Eds]

17 hours ago, Ian_Fearn said:

bit more suitable for British roads than a Suburban

A little bit! Thankfully. I have been tempted by a suburban more than once but always managed to talk myself out of one based on probable parking issues and having no where to work on something that big off the road. 

In saying that a GMT400 Suburban is still a 'bucket list' car for me. 

[Sh'Eds]

A busy day today. 

First up was servicing Mrs Sh'eds Pugeot 3008. 

Ripped all the skin of my arms getting at the pollen filter.

Air filter was made easy with my favourite tool of the day.

Next victim was my daily C4.

Pollen filter is easier on this, and needed doing

. 

Also did fuel and oil filters.

Disassembly of the garage then commenced. 

All so I could get the Tahoe in for the inner track rod ends this time as they refused to be adjustable when I took it for an attempted alignment last week. 

Hopefully I can now get the alignment done.

Of course having spent some time under the Tahoe I have found more that needs doing including a front main crank seal, which requires a new timing cover and as I will have to have the fan, belts, pulleys and tensioners off I may as well do the water pump at the same time - for now I think regular oil level checks and top ups will have to suffice.

 

 

 

 

[Sh'Eds]

(Possibly) long post warning.

TLDR: Intermittent no crank investigated and still not sure why. Advice and opinions gratefully received.

Long version:

In May last year I had a late night FTP in the Tahoe. Had been parked at a train station whilst we were out for the day at the cricket and upon returning had a no crank scenario. Recovery was called and after some initial diagnosis (more electrons from jump pack, swapping starter and ac relays over) it was suggested that the starter motor had failed. The starter isn't accessible from above and the recovery guy didn't fancy rolling around on the floor so no further testing was done and, after having to push a 3 ton lump with two sleeping kids and a pissed off wife about 400m to the height barrier at the car park entrance which meant the recovery wagon couldn't get to us, we were recovered home. 

 

A week or so later once I had time I went out to where the car had been left multimeter in hand to start some proper diagnostics, before connecting any leads however I gave the starter a perfunctory tap with a hammer and tried the key which saw it burst into life. Taking this as confirmation of a failing starter motor, though shut down and restarting did not require any additional percussive maintenance, I ordered a new starter and, upon arrival fitted it. Though being incapable of getting the parts I want from Rockauto I ordered a direct drive starter rather than the gear reduction starter. The direct drive being about twice the size and although still fits is somewhat closer to the exhaust manifold potentially reducing life span through heat.

All was well in the world after this with no further issues until the end of August when, on the last day of a weekend away camping, we jumped in the car to leave for home from a Sunday lunch pub visit and we had no crank no start. A quick tap of the (new) starter with a pair of pliers (in absence of anything more substantial being to hand, saw it again spring into life and we made it home without further incident. 

A few local journeys didn't see any reoccurrence of the issue but, to be on the safe side, and assuming the new starter had in fact been cooked by its increased proximity to the exhaust manifold, I ordered yet another new starter; this time the 'correct' gear reduction version. This was duly fitted and on the first drive out upon trying to leave for home the now dreaded no crank condition reared its head again  though as before some light percussive maintenance saw us on the move. 

At this point my brain began to accept that the failure of 3 starters in a row seemed unlikely and something more was probably going on.   

Well time passed and as I only really use this car in the summer and work. life and shitty weather got in the way of doing any further investigation until last weekend when I charged the battery, put the old 'new' starter back on and after a few twists of the key got it up and running and moved round to the garage so I could do some proper investigation.

 

I have been going out every day since last weekend to see if I can catch it in a no crank state, but until today it fired up right away every time!

Today however was the fateful day, just as I was checking the bus timetable and planning to head over to the NEC for the classic / restoration show I went out to do the daily check and it didn't start. A day of diagnostics, interspersed with some interior cleaning (having been sat all winter it was grim inside).

To the current (wish it had it) tests:

Test 1 - Is there power at the starter solenoid when cranking? After digging out the requisite 17 furlongs of multimeter leads so that I could connect to the starter (passenger side) and be in a position to observe the results from the drivers side I duly established that in fact NO there was NO signal to the solenoid. 

Test 2 - Swapping the relay with the AC relay (the same) didn't result in any change, so unless both are dead it seems not to be a relay issue.

Test 3 - With the relay removed I confirmed the presence of a constant 12v and switched 12V from ignition when 'cranking'. It therefore seemed that the fault was either the relay (which I thought unlikely on the basis of the previous substitution) or in the continuity of the wiring to the starter solenoid.

Test 4 - With key on, applying a jump between the constant 12v feed and the feed to the starter solenoid in the fuse box = starting and running car. I was pretty much back at square one here mentally as surely that means the signal wire to the starter solenoid is OK and I had established the relay was getting the 12v command from ignition when trying to crank so does that mean it can only be the relay? 

Feeling confused, but with a surefire way of 'hotwiring' the car to start I pulled it out of the garage and took a break from diagnostics to address the biohazard interior status. 

With that job completed I 'hotwired' the car again and moved it back into the garage. It was at this point I noticed that the gear selection indicator on the dash was not indicating current gear. Hmm thought I the neutral safety switch probably plays a role in the starter circuit and a bit of google over a belated lunch suggested that a symptom of a failing neutral safety switch is a lack of gear indication on the dash.

Somewhat refreshed and reenergized I then returned for round two of diagnostics but this is where I have become more confused than before!

I again removed the relay and tested for 12v at key in cranking position, this again was present, which assuming the neutral safety is linked in the ignition circuit would seem to suggest that it isn't the issue, though I guess it could also be in the feed to the solenoid after the relay and affect things that way? 

I then started thinking about the relay again and wondered if perhaps that wasn't the most likely culprit, as despite swapping with the identical AC relay, I still had no real idea if that one was good or not (as the AC has a massive leak and I have only used it for testing purposes (after I replaced the control panel which was also completely dead previously) getting it to turn on by jumping the low pressure switch. 

At this point I very much desired some of those relay breakout boxes that I have seen used on youtube but as that is something I have yet to drunkenly purchase (or if I have, I have forgotten) I made my own attempt with a selection of needle probes:

 

 

With the command wire disconnected at the starter solenoid testing then commenced. 

Again I, without fail, got a 12v feed to the relay from the ignition when 'cranking' and then, intermittently, managed to get 12v at the pin out to the starter solenoid. This however was improved upon by changing the earth location for the relay to the engine block and I did then manage to get 12v from ignition being transferred by relay magic to the 12v feed to the starter solenoid, this was confirmed by testing voltage at the solenoid end of the wire. In my mind this rules out the relay and the neutral safety switch being an issue as having 12v at the end of the wire where it connects to the solenoid would suggest that it receives power from the relay and then feeds the solenoid it is happy and allowing signal through. 

Now thinking that it must just be a dodgy earth I had the not so bright idea to reconnect the wire at the starter solenoid, and with the relay connected by my 'breakout box' and a better earth being provided to the earth pin direct from the engine block attempted to start the car - this just resulted in melting plastic as, quite obviously in hindsight, the little needle probes couldn't really be expected to carry the current demanded by the starter solenoid. 

After this failed test I have given up. I am not sure if it is a relay (as it seemed to work in testing) or if in fact it has been an earthing issue all along.

If anyone has any recommended avenues for further testing to figure this out one way or another, or to point out where I have made assumptions that could well be wrong in the above, I would be happy for any advice!  

 

 

[Sh'Eds]

Found a wiring diagram in the HBOL. 

This appears to confirm that ignition signal to the relay only happens if the neutral safety/ transmission range switch is happy and thus that can't be the issue as I have signal at the relay. 

Looking more likely to be a ground issue or a faulty relay. Have ordered two china special relays (£5 vs c. £20+ for one shipped from USA) and will see if that makes a difference.

[Sh'Eds]

Not sure if I have actually made any progress on this. Whilst I have voltage at the feed to the relay from the neutral safety/ transmission range switch putting a bulb across the circuit seems to suggest I have inadequate current flow as it didn't light at all. 

Now thinking, given the gear indicator absence, that the problem could be with this switch after all. 

Need to try bypassing the switch so will try that next when I have time.

[Sh'Eds]

And it appears we have a fix. 

First opportunity today to have another look after being away for Easter and busy all week.

Was going to bypass the neutral safety / gear range switch but kept thinking back to the fact that previous starter motor percussive maintenance had always seemed to work so thought it best to rethink before hacking away at wiring. With that in mind I thought as it seems to be current related it might be best to clean up the battery terminals.

Being a side post battery with big rubber terminal shrouds it isn't obvious if corrosion is present. Pulled these off and found some extensive green crustys on one of the two positive leads between the terminal and fully enclosed spacer / conductor that then abuts the second positive lead.

With these all cleaned up, and a similar clean on the negative terminal it fired up straight away.

A trip out to the garden centre seems to have confirmed the fix and it was pressed back into use with a tip run.

 

[Sh'Eds]

With the 'abandoned' Tahoe now back in use after finding the corroded battery terminal was the root cause of ongoing starting issues, my attention turned to the brake lights.

I had been 'advised' by a following car that the brake lights may not have been operating. However pulling over and sending the wife out to check reported lights did work, though it appeared intermittently. 

Some further investigation showed the light switch had unclipped from the rod to the brake booster and relocating it seems to restore normal function.

Recently though with reversing into the garage I have noticed that you have to be some way into pedal travel for the lights to activate.

About time to replace the brake light switch then. I had purchased one a while ago but not managed to fit it at the time due to the awful access, but some long picks (a Christmas present) helped with removal of the retaining clip and I could then swop switch.

Inaccessible retaining clip just visible here behind steering column.

Plugged the new switch in and all back together only to find I had no brake lights at all, bugger thought I must be a dodgy part. But removal and testing with the old switch, this time not back in position, showed that another fault was in play.

Having had to pull and prod wiring to get the switch in and out it was quite a quick process to find the issue.

Loom had been rubbing on sharp metal under dash and cut the power feed.

With that removed and wires soldered back together the new switch was plugged in and tested with success. 

With it all back together a feather light touch of the brake pedal results in lights illuminating. 

City driving will be much less stressful now as I won't have to keep stamping on the brakes to get lights on for those behind me.

Also gave the car a quick polish, looks ok from a distance...