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FotU 2021 - GO GO GO!


BorniteIdentity

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29 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

I think potentially seeing if anyone I know would like to tag along as an additional driver would be easier.  For all she's got all the acceleration ability of a cruise liner she isn't a hard vehicle to drive (well...once you've stopped swearing at the dogleg first year anyway).

Wouldn't really want to stick someone else in the BX as she would still be largely unproven by then so the potential for gremlins is too high in my mind. 

if I have my full licence by then but REV is not (reliably) back on the road by then, then id very much be up for that :) 

and seeing as the 2CV's gearbox posed no problem for me, I dont think anything else's will! in terms of layout anyway, I struggled with Dumper and the tractors gear-shift only because I am made of Jacobs cream crackers and because I was not using the right swear words, it was not because of their layout

or even if I dont have my full licence by then, Chris has a full licence right? you can kidnap him and duct tape him to the passenger seat, and im sure ill eventually automatically tune out his terrified screams at my bad driving, and that would tick off the Learner driver requirement of have a full licence holder in the car :) (or Van or whatever it is you have by then that needs ferrying to the FoTU! :) )

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5 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

and seeing as the 2CV's gearbox posed no problem for me, I dont think anything else's will!

I love the optimism here, but until you've experienced a gearbox that makes you want to tear the gearstick out of the vehicle and beat the gearbox with the broken end, you've no idea how frustrating/offputting it can be.  A 2CV gearbox is a fluffy little kitten compared with a lot of others.

Dogleg 1st gear boxes can be both excellent and an absolute pain in the posterior at the same time.  It's the moment that you remember the ordering of the gears is different just as you're trying to make a gap at a roundabout, cock up the gearchange,  miss the gap, have the arsehole in an Audi blowing his horn at you, and you still can't get the f*&£*r into gear.

Never done that before.  Nope, never, nohow. Not me.

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Would agree with that - I've only ever driven one TN but the gear change was pretty horrific.  All the VW LTs I've driven have been similarly awkward.  The Iveco's isn't too bad once it's warmed up, but even that's a recalcitrant bugger from cold - and as Talbot says, even after years of driving the poxy things I still need to occasionally do a double take to work out where the gear lever needs to go next.

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Is it any worse (dogleg aside) than a series 2 Land Rover box? 

Imagine a square, if you point the gearstick at a corner of that square, you'll find a gear (not necessarily the one you expected, admittedly), but anywhere else inside that square is just dead space containing nothing but warm air... 

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22 minutes ago, Crackers said:

Is it any worse (dogleg aside) than a series 2 Land Rover box? 

70bcbbb3aebb4dcdaec842afe59ef291.jpg.f0573b5f2358dd11d57f241111c8fb00.jpg

 

Depends on the Land Rover gearbox.  A S2 2-synchro gearbox isn't that hard to handle as the stick goes dirctly to the selector shafts, so you can generally feel what's going on.  What's not great is when you have a S2B FC with a remote linkage, so you really can't tell where the hell you are in the gate pattern.  Especially if it's all a bit siezed and sticky.

Some gearchanges really can be like trying to stirr a bucket of bricks.

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2 minutes ago, Talbot said:

Also:

OsZpKKf.jpg.61abd8e1be3df0be9e14050a5c97309a.jpg

Genuine shift patterns.

Speaking as a self-certified lorry-licker, I used to have a wheels and pedals set up with a shifter for Euro Truck Sim which had options for all those patterns. 

When you start using them, they make absolute perfect sense, especially the Eaton ones.  I've driven one very very briefly, but I'd love to have a proper go in something with a 13-speed one day. 

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Here's one that would confused most people, which I was told by an old hand driver when I worked at Waitrose.

Late 70s/Early 80s DAFs 2500s, the first ones they did in RHD and sent over here. For whatever reason, to get the lever in the right place, the gear linkage mirrored the shift pattern left-right, so you'd work you way up the gears by going left, then go up the range box, all the way over to the right and start again.

That caught plenty of drivers out, especially as you apparently couldn't block-change them. Coming up to a roundabout at 50mph, you'd come off the power about half a mile in advance, dropping one gear at a time, still going 'backwards' across the pattern, down the range and repeat!

That's one of the few vee-hickles I really don't fancy trying out. 

[/thread drift] 

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Ok, one more. I can't find a picture of the DAF pattern, but I've found an equally upsetting image of a Sudden Accident (Seddon Atkinson) which shows a similar idea.

I bet they played a few tunes on these as they left the yard gates, the roads of Bracknell must have sounded like a hundred people trying to learn the bagpipes!

11.jpg

If you want a real headache, look up the Spicer 16-speed. I can't even begin to describe that one.

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To be fair the one in this van isn't bad.  It's fifty times better than any other Merc T1 I've driven - mainly because it's been looked after and the gearchange bushes aren't all worn to hell.  Though it still can't be rushed.  It's very much a shift out of preceding gear, count one Mississippi, move into next gear deal.  Partly why I tend to automatically double declutch when driving it - makes sure I don't rush and end up with it refusing to give me second gear when you've got 10% of the way into moving off into a roundabout.

With all respect to you Dez, you'd really want a bit of proper real world independent driving experience before being plonked into something this wide and heavy on the public highway.  Especially on roads you don't know well.  That's aside from the usual headaches figuring out insurance etc.

The shift pattern which threw me for a loop the most was in an old Scania K112 based coach with a ten speed split ratio box.

IMG_20210330_153117.thumb.jpg.075abfa336398a50e22a7319509d1476.jpg

What got me was that the pattern changed on the top four gears...I didn't spot that until the first time I went for 8th gear and got a handful of 9th instead.

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1 minute ago, Zelandeth said:

With all respect to you Dez, you'd really want a bit of proper real world independent driving experience before being plonked into something this wide and heavy on the public highway.  Especially on roads you don't know well.  That's aside from the usual headaches figuring out insurance etc.

Oh yeah for sure!, I just really want to get out there and drive things and to places and do the things that normal people who are not trapped in Central London do!

 

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10 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

IMG_20210330_153117.thumb.jpg.075abfa336398a50e22a7319509d1476.jpg

What the hell is the point of that? It's fairly unusual to have "only" a splitter in the first place, I'd expect it to have been a range box instead. In fairness, I guess it makes more sense on a bus where you're not likely to be needing the use of all 10 gears unless you're weighted up and climbing hills. But even then, swapping the splitter pattern halfway through is beyond bizarre, I wonder what the reason for that was?

I'd happily offer to take your T1 up, I have a soft spot for them and I really enjoy driving big stuff (if you'd trust me (doubtful!) with it) but I'll be driving the P6 up.

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On 3/30/2021 at 3:53 PM, Crackers said:

What the hell is the point of that? It's fairly unusual to have "only" a splitter in the first place, I'd expect it to have been a range box instead. In fairness, I guess it makes more sense on a bus where you're not likely to be needing the use of all 10 gears unless you're weighted up and climbing hills. But even then, swapping the splitter pattern halfway through is beyond bizarre, I wonder what the reason for that was?

I'd happily offer to take your T1 up, I have a soft spot for them and I really enjoy driving big stuff (if you'd trust me (doubtful!) with it) but I'll be driving the P6 up.

It actually works really well, doesn't clutter the gearchange up around town, but feels natural on the open road when swapping "half a gear" to maintain pace. . I found that you generally went 1 - 3 - 5 -7 - 8 - 9 - 10.  The only time the split was really needed on the lower gears was needed was if you were climbing a really steel grade - though granted I've never driven the coach with 48 passengers and their luggage onboard.

My reading: Because Scania.  Just like Saab they'll find a way to be quirky just because they can.  I *think* the box was made by ZF though.

Worked well, just confused the hell out of me initially! 

Was quite a revelation to me to be honest...first Vanhool Alizee I had a shot of was a very early B10M - and by god it was underpowered.  Was absolutely fine on the flat but the moment you hit any kind of gradient it was painful.  The Scania with its 250 odd bhp felt like a racing car in comparison!

However the same chassis with a Supreme IV body on goes like a bloody rocket!

You'd be welcome to a shot of the van (not limited to FotU!), my take on vehicles has *always* been that having quirky vehicles is pointless unless the experience is shared.  I insist on seeing evidence that you've got insurance cover and like to supervise at least the first trip out if I haven't got previous experience of your driving - but I'm absolutely happy to but you're welcome to a shot!  Just don't be in a hurry.  She's one of those vehicles who just plods along at her own pace... doesn't make any odds if you thrash that OM.603 to within an inch of its life or drive like a granny...the actual speed will be almost identical!

The thing which surprises me the most though is that once you break through that 65-70 barrier, I guess because you hit the peak of the power band, she goes howling off down the motorway at outside lane speeds.  Which confuses the hell out of Audi drivers when they see a 30 year old motorhome with a straight through exhaust howling last them...

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9 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

OM.603

I hadn't realised it was an OM603 engine in it.. I had assumed something older.

Like the 606 sucessor, the 603 is undersquare, so it needs to be revved somewhat harder than you might expect a diesel to be revved to get the best out of it.  Maybe not quite as hard as the 606 with it's 4-valve-per-cylinder design, but Mercedes (I believe) were trying to make an inline-6 diesel that drove as well as their inline-6 petrol engines, and I think they succeded.

603s are not that common in the UK, but are an absolute corker of an engine IMO.  Also a fully-mechanical engine-oil-lubricated cam-type bosch fuel injection pump, meaning you can run it on just about anything a bit oily that burns.  I've heard of them being run on heated grease before now.

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5 hours ago, Talbot said:

I hadn't realised it was an OM603 engine in it.. I had assumed something older.

Like the 606 sucessor, the 603 is undersquare, so it needs to be revved somewhat harder than you might expect a diesel to be revved to get the best out of it.  Maybe not quite as hard as the 606 with it's 4-valve-per-cylinder design, but Mercedes (I believe) were trying to make an inline-6 diesel that drove as well as their inline-6 petrol engines, and I think they succeded.

603s are not that common in the UK, but are an absolute corker of an engine IMO.  Also a fully-mechanical engine-oil-lubricated cam-type bosch fuel injection pump, meaning you can run it on just about anything a bit oily that burns.  I've heard of them being run on heated grease before now.

Derp...OM.601.  I have a serious blind spot for that for some reason.

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22 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

Derp...OM.601.  I have a serious blind spot for that for some reason.

Same series though.  OM601/602/603 are all essentially the same engine, just with 4, 5 or 6 cylinders, much like the 604/605/606 series being the same family, just with 4, 5 or 6 cylinders.

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10 minutes ago, Talbot said:

Same series though.  OM601/602/603 are all essentially the same engine, just with 4, 5 or 6 cylinders, much like the 604/605/606 series being the same family, just with 4, 5 or 6 cylinders.

I do have half-developed notions of fitting a 605 if I came across one at the right price in the right place.  The fact that the early Sprinters shared engines with the T1 means that it's (in the grand scheme of things) a dead easy conversion.  606 won't fit without major surgery as it's way too long, 605 has the extra length on the front though so is easier to deal with.  Majorly useful power and torque boost...but most importantly, that five pot warble.

Hardly likely to happen though... it's a very low priority idea, and given this engine only has 60K on the clock isn't even run in yet!  Plus the main driver behind it was the thought of doing possibly some long distance treks through Europe one day where the additional grunt would be useful to have - which is basically on indefinite hold now as the additional red tape imposed by Brexit makes it seem more hassle than it's worth.

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  • 4 weeks later...
5 hours ago, Spottedlaurel said:

Are tickets for the general exhibition area available yet? We've cancelled our holiday so I'm definitely up for it, LS400 or Laurel this time?......

LS400 is a bit good isn't it? Mind you, far too many people see them as engine donors and nothing more, so it's always nice to see one preserved.

Don't believe general tickets are yet available.

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7 hours ago, Spottedlaurel said:

Are tickets for the general exhibition area available yet? We've cancelled our holiday so I'm definitely up for it, LS400 or Laurel this time?......

LS400! Might even MOT the Celsior and drive it down. That or the 500SEL which is probably too fancy, so maybe the Lincoln.

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