SiC Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Headlight rules are changing for Classic Cars (pre 1 April 1986/35 years old) for an MOT. Not quite sure why they are changing this - possibly pressure from LED retrofit importers and resellers? Existing halogen headlamp units on vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1986 must not be converted to be used with high intensity discharge (HID) or light emitting diode (LED) bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp for light source and lamp not compatible.www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-private-passenger-and-light-commercial-vehicles/4-lamps-reflectors-and-electrical-equipment#section-4-1-4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunglebus Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Good, they're a pain in the arse for other road users crad, sutty2006, Mad Cyril and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo3002 Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 can they dismantle the lamp to see what bulb is fitted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sham Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 It's not classics, any car after that date that originally had Halogens. Older cars not affected by this change. Good Three Speed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tadhg Tiogar Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 14 minutes ago, SiC said: Headlight rules are changing for Classic Cars for an MOT. Not quite sure why they are changing this - possibly pressure from LED retrofit importers and resellers? www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-private-passenger-and-light-commercial-vehicles/4-lamps-reflectors-and-electrical-equipment#section-4-1-4 It doesn't fully deal with the fundamental problem that LED retrofit "bulbs" for headlamps are not suitable for the conventional bowl reflectors that almost all old cars have, as the resultant patterns can and do throw random scattered beams that blind oncoming drivers. They may be legal to sell, but are illegal to use. Prohibiting use on post April '86 cars is just scratching the surface. RayMK and Talbot 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiC Posted March 23, 2021 Author Share Posted March 23, 2021 43 minutes ago, Sham said: It's not classics, any car after that date that originally had Halogens. I'm looking at that statement in reverse. Any car before that date won't fail if they have HIDs or LEDs retrofitted. Previously they would have done (iirc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiC Posted March 23, 2021 Author Share Posted March 23, 2021 40 minutes ago, Tadhg Tiogar said: It doesn't fully deal with the fundamental problem that LED retrofit "bulbs" for headlamps are not suitable for the conventional bowl reflectors that almost all old cars have, as the resultant patterns can and do throw random scattered beams that blind oncoming drivers. They may be legal to sell, but are illegal to use. Prohibiting use on post April '86 cars is just scratching the surface. Yeah I struggle to see why there is a cut off date. I can only assume the thinking is that pre '86 light fittings will get harder to source and some bulbs too. Apart from that, I don't see the logic with allowing older cars to pass with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talbot Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 51 minutes ago, steveo3002 said: can they dismantle the lamp to see what bulb is fitted? The ballast and/or heat sink hanging out of the back of the lamp is usually a dead giveaway. wuvvum 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiC Posted March 23, 2021 Author Share Posted March 23, 2021 54 minutes ago, steveo3002 said: can they dismantle the lamp to see what bulb is fitted? Probably not, but it's usually pretty clear if it's got a LED or HID retrofit. LEDs turn on nearly instantly while halogen take a quarter second or so for full brightness. They also look very different bulb structure to a Halogen with a heatsink on the back. HIDs are even easier to tell as there will be a ballast and take a number of seconds for full brightness. Finally the light colour is usually the easiest way to tell. With many being much more of a white colour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiC Posted March 23, 2021 Author Share Posted March 23, 2021 Previously it said in this section: Quote 4. Lamps, reflectors and electrical equipment 4.1.4 Headlamps - Compliance with requirements - Removed 'Some motorcycles may be fitted with high intensity discharge (HID) or light emitting diode (LED) headlamps. Existing halogen headlamp units should not be converted to be used with HID or LED bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp.' 4.1.4 Headlamps - Compliance with requirements - Defect removed '(c) Light source and lamp not compatible' https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-motorcycles/updates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sierraman Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 There’s lots of things you see on the road where you can’t understand how it’s passed the test with illegal modifications. Namely when the fuelling is fucked about to make a diesel smoke or bumpers smoothed over and the number plate displayed in the window. St.Jude 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiltox Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 59 minutes ago, bunglebus said: Good, they're a pain in the arse for other road users Only if they’re fitted in reflector housings - my ZS EV has projectors and the beam pattern and cut off is arguably even better with the OMFG ILLEGAL bulbs I’ve fitted 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talbot Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Just now, Kiltox said: Only if they’re fitted in reflector housings Which is what has been legislated against, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiltox Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Talbot said: Which is what has been legislated against, no? No, afaik my car should fail it’s first MOT in 2023 because it came with halogens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlaw118 Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Slightly O/T but I was considering getting HiD blubs for my Capri as the standard fit ones are shite, obviously I can't do that now; well, not for a couple of years as it's MoT exempt from 2025. Outlaw_Junior had uprated bulbs in his Focus, but I think they're just better halogen bulbs from Halfrauds, but made a difference. Firstly are the uprated ones my best "legal" bet, and secondly once she becomes MoT exempt from 2025 what's to stop me getting HiDs then? Are Plod going to be upset do you reckon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiC Posted March 23, 2021 Author Share Posted March 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, outlaw118 said: Slightly O/T but I was considering getting HiD blubs for my Capri as the standard fit ones are shite, obviously I can't do that now; well, not for a couple of years as it's MoT exempt from 2025. Outlaw_Junior had uprated bulbs in his Focus, but I think they're just better halogen bulbs from Halfrauds, but made a difference. Firstly are the uprated ones my best "legal" bet, and secondly once she becomes MoT exempt from 2025 what's to stop me getting HiDs then? Are Plod going to be upset do you reckon? What year is it? 1985? If so, these changes (afaik) will mean you could put HIDs in your Capri already and not fail the MOT. outlaw118 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlaw118 Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, SiC said: What year is it? 1985? Yep 14/8/85.... not that she's going to be ready for an Mot this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamescarruthers Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 25 minutes ago, outlaw118 said: Slightly O/T but I was considering getting HiD blubs for my Capri as the standard fit ones are shite, obviously I can't do that now; well, not for a couple of years as it's MoT exempt from 2025. Outlaw_Junior had uprated bulbs in his Focus, but I think they're just better halogen bulbs from Halfrauds, but made a difference. Firstly are the uprated ones my best "legal" bet, and secondly once she becomes MoT exempt from 2025 what's to stop me getting HiDs then? Are Plod going to be upset do you reckon? On two old vehicles, maybe three, (Renault Master Mk. 1, BX and maybe XM) I have had fantastic results with the addition of relays to the headlight circuit so that they are controlled by the original wiring but powered by a new fat direct feed to the battery. What bulbs does your Capri have? H4? Here is an example for H4 bulbs which is just plug abs play: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/402551871178 Then add genuine decent bulbs. This means biting the bullet and installing non-fake Osram Nightbreaker or Philips Racing Vision lights. You could also be naughty and instal high wattage (I.e. over the 55W legal limit) bulbs but TBH the standard bulbs with proper power we’re quite an improvement. I was genuinely stunned, especially with the old Master which was clearly loosing quite a few volts in its ancient wiring. SiC, outlaw118 and Joey spud 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlaw118 Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 9 minutes ago, jamescarruthers said: What bulbs does your Capri have? H4? I believe so, it's been a while since I had a fat hands v access hole fight with it, but that rings a bell. I'm also fairly sure it was the Osram Nightbreakers Junior had in his Focus - might rob them out before it goes on Friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuvvum Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 I fitted Osram Nightbreakers to the Rover of Doom - they really did make a difference, they improved the headlights from utterly shit to almost adequate. outlaw118, mercedade, St.Jude and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamescarruthers Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Personally I prefer Philips Racing Vision to Osram Nightbreakers after trying both but they are generally considered the best two on other forums I am on. Being the best means that you have to be really careful not to get Chinese fakes on Amazon. It’s been a few years but I bought my Philips from https://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/ and they were good. outlaw118 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Jude Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, wuvvum said: I fitted Osram Nightbreakers to the Rover of Doom - they really did make a difference, they improved the headlights from utterly shit to almost adequate. Was about to quote @outlaw118 to mention the Osram Nightbreakers. I put them on my Corolla (which had old crappy bulbs of unknown origin) and they are fantastic. They're a bit more expensive than normal ones, but you get what you pay for really. 10/10, would light up my life with them again. outlaw118 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tadhg Tiogar Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 51 minutes ago, jamescarruthers said: .... I bought my Philips from https://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/ and they were good. ABD have been peddling LED headlight bulbs for quite a while now. They do tend to play down the illegality of using them in conventional headlamps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuvvum Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 I put LED bulbs in that Tempra I had (to ease the load on the alternator in the dark as the fanbelt was screeching) and they weren't too bad in terms of pattern and visibility. They were the ones with narrow strips of COB LEDs pretty much where the filaments would be on a halogen H4 though - a lot of the cheaper LED bulbs are basically H4 shaped with a cluster of LEDs on what would be the outside of the glass on a normal H4, so the light source is in completely the wrong place and it fucks the beam pattern up totally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave j Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 I might put some in the camper as the headlight bulbs are like candles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tadhg Tiogar Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 57 minutes ago, wuvvum said: I put LED bulbs in that Tempra I had (to ease the load on the alternator in the dark as the fanbelt was screeching) and they weren't too bad in terms of pattern and visibility. They were the ones with narrow strips of COB LEDs pretty much where the filaments would be on a halogen H4 though .... The COB-type are still a mixed bunch, ranging from "just about" to "you must be mad to use these". The only major company to have put in anything like serious research into this is Philips, and even their resulting (and very expensive) Ultinon headlamp LED "bulbs" are still illegal to use here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minimad5 Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 I R silly and need to ask- So LED is still ok for sidelights? Edit:- And bright as hell Registration lights too ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMC Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Loaded with led. No longer allowed unless it’s the body 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tadhg Tiogar Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Minimad5 said: I R silly and need to ask- So LED is still ok for sidelights? Edit:- And bright as hell Registration lights too ? The MoT guidance suggests you can use LEDs for those purposes. But absolutely not headlamps, post April '86. Minimad5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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