Egrvalve Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 It's rarely the coil. It's more often the condenser as mally alluded to. However.... Being the age it is, it is likely to have a ballast wire feeding the coil. This resistive wire drops the voltage feeding the coil to 9v* and means you must have the right coil for a ballast ignition system. If you have a 12v coil in a ballast system you will get a weak spark. The fuel will not burn properly and the plugs will soot up. If it's a 12v coil it may be why the aa man diagnosed it as the problem. If you have a 9v coil but are not using a ballast wire to feed it, you will be supplying it with 12v and it will overheat eventually and burn out. You can recognise a resistive ballast wire going to the +ve terminal of the coil as it's pink and white Check the coil part number you have and Google to see if it's 9v or not. If it is a 12v coil and your coil wire is resistive, you have two choices. 1. Get a 9v coil. 2. Run a new 12v supply from the fuse box. One of the white terminals in the fuse box if I remember correctly. And connect to positive on the coil. Tape up the pink wire well and keep it out of harm's way so it doesn't earth and set the loom alight. * There is another wire connected to the positive of the coil that supplies 12v to it when the ignition switch is in the crank position. This aids starting, but when the key is released it switches back to 9v. I'd recommend replacing the points and condenser with something like this as condensers are really poor nowadays. https://simonbbc.com/Powerspark-Electronic-Ignition-Kit-for-Lucas-45D-43D-59D-Distributor-K4--R2 Double check this is right for your distributor. You should have a Lucas 59d but these cars are old and bits get swapped around. They used to be very helpful if you rang them but I've not ring them for years. Edit... I think a ballast coil should measure 1.5 ohms across the positive and negative terminals and a non ballast one 3 ohms. It's another way to check if you can't confirm by part number. nacho man and Rusty_Rocket 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_Rocket Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 Thing is, you can go cheap (Acuspark) and get lucky, or it'll let you down 40 miles from home in the pissing rain. My blue car has an Acuspark setup, red rotor and original 1975 coil and it has been perfect, totally fit and forget. Then you read that some poor soul has the system fail an hour after fitting. Pot luck. I agree, coils are usually fine and don't fit any new condenser unless it's a Distributor Doctor one, which I think Minispares and Moss sell as their 'Premium' part. nacho man 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egrvalve Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 Agreed rusty rocket. I wanted to keep the points in mine as I was nostalgic for it. A few condenser changes later and the numerous points adjustment saw me fit a power spark unit and it's been fine for ten years. Rusty_Rocket and nacho man 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho man Posted March 20, 2021 Author Share Posted March 20, 2021 Just been reading through the paperwork and it’s basically had a full rebuild, £9000 to have the body done plus 22 page invoice from mini spares. In there is a ballast coil. So will check. Thanks all for letting me know what to look for regards the pink/white wire etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egrvalve Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 No problem. Sounds like the right coil on the invoice for a g reg. It's just whether that one was used in the car. All sorts happens over the years. Lots of parts are interchangeable. Some aren't. Not many are how they left the factory. It might possibly be the coil at fault, but it's just unusual. They are pretty reliable. Let us know how you get on or ifyou need any help. Don't lose heart with it. They can be reliable cars. They just need proper maintenance. They are so simple that all you usually have to do is eliminate things one by one starting with the simplest. nacho man 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_Rocket Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 If you do fit a new coil, ditch the ballast system and run 12v to a new (12v) coil. They were ok when new but the resistance wire is in the loom and regularly fails nowadays- best to do away with it. They can melt the loom too. nacho man 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiC Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 Just lob a 123 ignition in, remove the ballast and be done with ignition issues. Not cheap but worth it. If it's still on points, then I'd put money on the condenser being stuffed if it's a new one. Points likely knackered too. A faulty coil is usually stupidly hot. They rarely fail tbh, even cheap ones. I struggle to see how one would be giving a weak spark too. Unless drained of oil and arcing internally. Which is even more unlikely. Duff condenser will give a weak spark. Especially if that's caused the points to burn out too. nacho man and Talbot 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiC Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 1 hour ago, MrBiscuits said: I'm surprised the previous owners have spent so much and not sacked off the points & condenser for electronic ignition. It will run so much better. This was always one of the first jobs on mine - in those days £20 for a scrap dizzy and coil from a 1275 maestro. Now you can buy a new electronic distributor for £70 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LUCAS-59D4-STYLE-ELECTRONIC-DISTRIBUTOR-A-engine-From-AccuSpark-/180673283496 They're kack, don't bother. The bearings in my one of them went all loose after ~800 miles in my MGB and then the springs lost their tension. So timing was all over the shop and got so bad it started pinking. Others have had similar experiences of those Indian made Lucas copied distributors. nacho man 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBiscuits Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, SiC said: They're kack, don't bother. The bearings in my one of them went all loose after ~800 miles in my MGB and then the springs lost their tension. So timing was all over the shop and got so bad it started pinking. Others have had similar experiences of those Indian made Lucas copied distributors. I thought that seemed cheap. I guess that's why. In my Mini driving days the yards were full of metros and maestros so I never tried the aftermarket stuff. I do remember the difference between an electronic system and points/condenser being like night and day though. As others have said a car as good as this deserves a decent system nacho man 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Jetter Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 Surely, a warranty issue. If it won't drive for an hour + it's not fit for purpose. nacho man 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egrvalve Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 A coil can give a weak spark if it's polarities are reversed apparently. I'll admit it's not something I've experienced but I've read about it. SiC and nacho man 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho man Posted March 21, 2021 Author Share Posted March 21, 2021 Have sent an email to the dealer. So will see what they say. I don’t think there will be a problem at all. They couldn’t get the code working for original stereo so refunded us £150 to buy a replacement. tooSavvy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooSavvy Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 I've just fitted my Classic MiNi steering wheel and it is proving 100% reliable *no points on mine, so running issues unlikely Keep the Faith nacho man 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho man Posted March 23, 2021 Author Share Posted March 23, 2021 So. I wasn’t convinced it was the coil. But ordered points, condenser, cap, rotor arm and a coil just in case. Grand total £55.20 Condenser fitted, fired up first thing. So fitted everything else as I know they are new bits I ordered, and will keep the rest as spares. Changed the oil and filter was well while I was there so I know that’s been done as well. Will go home in it tonight for test run Mark 2, and hopefully it’s more successful than last time. Also parked outside the office next to another small car. garethj, Dick Longbridge, tooSavvy and 11 others 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethj Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 In my book of aircooled VW maintenance it always said to change the points and condenser at the same time as something always went wrong when you broke up the old team. Enjoy the drive! nacho man and warch 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho man Posted March 23, 2021 Author Share Posted March 23, 2021 So crew need some advice. Drove home 35 mins all fine. Went out again another 25 mins then died. Did the same again just cut out. Surely it ain’t the condenser/points again? Somethings making it just conk out and not want to go again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain_70s Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Where did you get the condenser/points? Not unknown for cheaper ones to fail almost instantly. I frequently buy brand new repo parts that are simply dead on arrival or so bad they don't fit/work. nacho man, Egrvalve and warch 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbenn Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Not sure if these have the low tension wire on the size of the distributor cap like the earlier A series engines, but if it does then have you changed it? Our Morris Minor used to cut out when the engine had been running for a while, not a hint of interest in starting. Fine when allowed to cool down then played up when it heated up again. Changed this wire and its never done it since. LightBulbFun and nacho man 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiC Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Have you got links to the parts you bought? Can be a bit of a minefield of mixed quality. Is this on a mechanical or electrical fuel pump? Egrvalve and nacho man 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethj Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Blocked breather on the fuel tank? Does loosening the fuel cap allow it to start? Fortunately these are simple things, it’s fuel, spark and compression you need. If it’s turning over and sounding normal we can assume it’s got enough compression. When you crank it over, do you get a spark? Pull an HT lead off the plug, peel back the insulation and hold it a few millimetres from a good Earth point. Is there a fat, blue spark jumping the gap when the engine is turned over? If so, check the plugs look ok. If they’re fine it will be fuel, so check there’s some getting through to the carb. Or, take it back to the dealer and get them to fix it👍 RayMK and nacho man 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayMK Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, garethj said: Blocked breather on the fuel tank? Does loosening the fuel cap allow it to start? Fortunately these are simple things, it’s fuel, spark and compression you need. If it’s turning over and sounding normal we can assume it’s got enough compression. When you crank it over, do you get a spark? Pull an HT lead off the plug, peel back the insulation and hold it a few millimetres from a good Earth point. Is there a fat, blue spark jumping the gap when the engine is turned over? If so, check the plugs look ok. If they’re fine it will be fuel, so check there’s some getting through to the carb. Or, take it back to the dealer and get them to fix it👍 You've taken the words out of my mouth. Also check the rubber fuel lines for condition and correct routing in the engine bay. Old lines can collapse internally and restrict flow without leaking. Badly routed fuel lines can cause modern fuel to turn to gas, something that the pump and carb will not like. nacho man and Egrvalve 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho man Posted March 23, 2021 Author Share Posted March 23, 2021 They come from the local factors. Bosch parts mainly. Thing was my way home from work is 35 mins, 10 mins blast down the a50, then a thrash down the lanes and not one hint of a problem.Then it stood, ten mins and we set off again. Did another 25 mins and not a hint of a problem. Then it stopped 15 mins as we went for a trio around the block. Then it just conked out again. Then not a hint of restarting. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayMK Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 27 minutes ago, Danterzza said: They come from the local factors. Bosch parts mainly. Thing was my way home from work is 35 mins, 10 mins blast down the a50, then a thrash down the lanes and not one hint of a problem. Then it stood, ten mins and we set off again. Did another 25 mins and not a hint of a problem. Then it stopped 15 mins as we went for a trio around the block. Then it just conked out again. Then not a hint of restarting. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Frustrating indeed! Have you still got a spark though? nacho man 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egrvalve Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 As others have said, check for decent spark. Check carb float bowl is full by taking 3 screws out and lifting lid. (Assuming it still has the su HS4 it came with) Remove the air filter and pour a thimble sized amount down the carb throat. If you crank it and it runs for a few seconds you know you have done kind of spark. get rid of the points and condenser. Ive advocated the powerspark modules before and I can only speak from personal experience but they are the cheapest way of taking points out of the equation. Even to test the water before you drop a few hundred on a better electronic solution. nacho man 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egrvalve Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Does it cut out without warning or does it cough and cold back before it dies? nacho man 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho man Posted March 23, 2021 Author Share Posted March 23, 2021 I did have a spark last time but sometimes it was with a bit erratic. Like every third revolution it would spark? This time it happened it was just getting dark, so left it where it was till tomorrow.It did run rough for like 5/10 secs then just died.But in reality just conked out. Same as Saturday. Will investigate further tomorrow, but thanks for all the ideas chaps as what time look out for, apart from the norm. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nacho man Posted March 24, 2021 Author Share Posted March 24, 2021 So got it to my work this morning so I could have a look. Was dumped outside my mums last night. Took the distributor cap off, checked the points, put it back. Did nothing else, and it fired straight up. Decided to order a proper 123 electronic distributor to do away with it all. Was a few quid, but hopefully that’s one less thing that could go wrong in the future. March has definitely not been a good month financially with cars for me 😀 What with buying this, repairing this, bodywork on the W123, Clio needing front callipers and the E39 in my stewardship needing a abs sensor and a oil change. Got a new diamond core drill at work, going to watch some Hatton garden vids, and go from there. Dick Longbridge, mercedade, Fumbler and 4 others 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egrvalve Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 Did you try it before you removed and replaced the distributor cap? nacho man 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talbot Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 16 hours ago, Danterzza said: It did run rough for like 5/10 secs then just died. That's sounding more like fuelling than spark. It could be something as simple as a blocked jet. RayMK and nacho man 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethj Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 As this was bought from a dealer, shouldn’t they fix it? nacho man 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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