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1985 BMW E28 520i - Good-byes


SiC

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1 hour ago, Steviemillar said:

Bleeding coolant systems on these older M20B20 (and M30B35) engines can be a challenge. I have used this guide before with success on both my 735i (M30) and also “tailored” the same procedure to my Z1 (M20B25)  when I changed the timing belt and water pump last year, it does work and saves a load of faffing.

https://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=58368

Blowing air into the tank is a bliming good idea. I did try back filling the radiator with that overflow hose, just the tank is lower than the top of the radiator. So I ended up causing the tank to overflow before the radiator was full! I might cheat and use my air blow gun set down low. Thought being that I'm unlikely to be able to hold it against the tank at 1.5bar without it pushing itself off anyway. Plus the cap will outgas if it gets too high too. 

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Today has not been a good day in E28 revival land.

All day I've been trying to get the system bled.

First start-up produced an awful lot of water out of the exhaust. No idea why so much is up there. Hell a lot for condensation. I wonder if some managed to get up there when the drive was hosed down after the kitchen refit.
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Try as I might, the pipes to the heater valve stayed cool. Valve power was disconnected as this should leave it in the open state.
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I did contemplate fitting the E46 valve at this point, but decided to bypass it completely and simplify. So I went out and bought a couple of pipe joiners.
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In fitting the joiner, I noticed this pipe from the block to the heater valve/matrix was bone dry.
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Removing the heater valve was a right 'mare. It lives behind the brake servo and the only way I could get to the clamp was pulling hard on the hose.
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It was even more of a fight to put the t-piece into that bottom hose.
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Even after that join it still wouldn't get warm on that hose.

I pulled the top hose off and shoved the hose pipe nozzle into it. Squeezing the trigger didn't cause water to escape out the open section with the join-piece. In fact all that happened was the hose bulged from being under pressure. Likewise the same when putting the air line in. It held pressure too.

So there must be something stuck in there. Next problem is finding where and how the heck to clear it. I wanted to stick a camera down but the hose had too many tight bends for it to fit through. Removing the hose is pretty much impossible as the clamp is down the back of the engine, right next to the bulkhead. This must have been put on before the engine went into the car.
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A this point I'm pretty stuffed and narked off with the car. The only way I can think of getting access is either removing core plugs (but they're not in the easiest place to get to) or removing the water pump and going straight along the block. Realistically removing the pump is the only way in.

However, even though the pump is driven off the aux belt, the only way to get the pump off is by getting almost the whole way through a cambelt change.

Sigh.

Took less an hour to get to this point.
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I had to stop by now as it was chucking it down and I was now soaked through.
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To make my bad mood worse, I caught the bumper with my boiler suit and it fell off.
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Whatever is blocking the passage way must be stuck fast, as it didn't move one bit from quite a lot of water and air pressure. Not quite sure what is in there either. It could be anything really as I gave the system a good flush through with the hose when I changed the pump. So it could be anything and something likely flowing around for quite a long time too but now stuck where ever it is.

If I can't find whatever is blocking it, what next? I don't have the time or inclination to drop the engine on this, which is what it would end up having it to come to. Realistically if I can't get it flowing, the car isn't usable. If this happens then, I don't like to say it but, the car days with me maybe numbered and will be flogged on as spares + repairs.

It's really not the easiest car to work on either. The design is very modern, especially compared to by pre-80s classics. By this I mean stuff isn't easily accessed easily removable. Loads of pipes that disappear in and around the engine, fasteners hard to get at, components even harder to remove and despite being simple fuel injection system, it's pretty fragile on relying it's components to be in spec for it to run correctly. Certainly not a car that I'm enjoying working on or finding satisfy, that's for sure. Honeymoon period is definitely over right now.

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My fear is that some of this crystallised coolant crap has built up elsewhere and come loose. Gathering and compacting up in a passageway, then causing a complete blockage. 

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I'd have thought the hose or airgun would have been enough reverse pressure to clear it though. I've never used coolant system cleaner, but does that break up that crap?

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  • SiC changed the title to 1985 BMW E28 520i - Disasterous cooling system blockage and overheating :(
12 hours ago, SiC said:

 
To make my bad mood worse, I caught the bumper with my boiler suit and it fell off.
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☹.

I've lost count of the number of times I've caught the bloody door handle of the patio/ garage door on the side slits of my dickies boiler, whipping the whole door into my side. 

Hope you get to the bottom of it. Nothing worse than an issue you haven't sorted tickling the back of your brain!

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42 minutes ago, Tadhg Tiogar said:

That crystallisation looks like a job for running Calgon and dishwasher tabs through it.

Similar to this suggestion but simpler, would the old cheap cola trick be worth a shot? If it is sludgey crap from the coolant it may dissolve it, and at this point is it likely to make it worse?

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Where does the hose to the matrix come off, is it under the inlet somewhere or toward the back of the block?

Can't see this bit of hose routing on realoem but if you can get to the engine end of it you could see if it's the hose that's blocked or somewhere in the engine.

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This morning Google very kindly reminded me of the last time I worked on a German cooling system...
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Eddie mention of bendy tools reminded me that I had some Teng ones in the garage. The socket still wouldn't fit, but the screwdriver driver was just enough that I could catch the edge of the screw head to turn it a tiny bit at a time. With some questionable application of a prybar, I managed to get the clip turned enough so I could get the 6mm (why BMW, why not 7mm like everyone else FFS) socket on the end.
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After undoing the clamp and pulling the pipe off, the first indications showed the problem.
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I stuck my brand new endoscope camera down and the picture went blury white. Pulling the camera out and looking at the end made is quite clear the problem...
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Going in again, I could see a wall/plug of crap. Unfortunately I forgot to take a picture of the picture...

Anyhow I probed it with some left over earth wire, handily in the top of the skip.
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Camera back in showed a big improvement. Instead of a complete blockage needing hospital treatment, it's now in a state of merely a bad Saturday morning hangover.
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Squirting water back through on the water pump side showed a satisfying flow.
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I'm going to leave the heater valve out and keep the joiner piece in for now. At least until I've got it into the centre of Bristol and back out for its MOT. Last thing I want is for it to boil over in rush stop+start hour traffic.

Now I need to finish putting the front of the engine back together after yesterday evenings outburst...

Thankfully I stopped at taking the cambelt off, so it's just a case of bolting it all back up and not too tricky. With it all removed it at least has allowed me to flush out all of its orifices.

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Where does the hose to the matrix come off, is it under the inlet somewhere or toward the back of the block?

Can't see this bit of hose routing on realoem but if you can get to the engine end of it you could see if it's the hose that's blocked or somewhere in the engine.
Number 11 is the one at the back that was bunged up:
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  • SiC changed the title to 1985 BMW E28 520i - Cooling "sorted", back to MOT prep...
15 minutes ago, Bren said:

Get it in for it's ticket then sort it properly. At least it's unblocked.

There's a reason for changing coolant.

I'm trying hard to keep laser focused on that MOT. Once that's done, I can easily test drive it after sorting other stuff. 

Coolant was probably sat in it for a good ten years plus when it was laid up. Then put back into service and I have no idea if it was changed. I guess possibly not!

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Can't find it now but I saw a video once about using citric acid to flush the coolant system.

It was being done on a similar age mercedes, maybe a 190d.

The citric acid powder is actually available from mercedes for this procedure but you can also buy it on ebay.

I think the citric acid does a good job on rust and shite (I use it for derusting steel parts) but is mild enough not to melt holes in alloy bits.

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Mrs SiC is convinced I won't like driving this. Too big, refined and sophisticated. I want to prove her wrong, but at the same time I know she knows me too well and I kinda think she may be right. Basically the cars I've liked the most have been the small, good handling and "sports car" (coupé/roadster/2dr) like.

Looking forward to piloting it though. Skip should be going tomorrow, but then the skip company said last week it was going on last Wednesday and it's still here. Once that's gone, I can get an MOT booked. Really hoping it won't need much. I've not touched it with the welder at all and intend that my local garage do anything like that if needed.

In other news, I've got this to fit. NOS and undamaged, unlike the cracked original. However fifty bloody quid for this!
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5 hours ago, Joey spud said:

Nice job you must be pleased with that,you have way more patience than me.

I would have been kicking the dog and drinking excessively long ago.

 

My patience was wearing very thin last night and today. I'm not a skin flint but I really dislike loosing money! With it sat broken on the drive, I just see my money disappearing into thin air as people wont pay much for a broken car. Fixing it instantly causes it to gain value. That's a big motivator to try fixing the bugger!

5 hours ago, Dave_Q said:

Can't find it now but I saw a video once about using citric acid to flush the coolant system.

It was being done on a similar age mercedes, maybe a 190d.

The citric acid powder is actually available from mercedes for this procedure but you can also buy it on ebay.

I think the citric acid does a good job on rust and shite (I use it for derusting steel parts) but is mild enough not to melt holes in alloy bits.

Interesting. I did have some Citric acid, not sure why, but I threw it out when we moved house last year! I might bung a can of cooling system cleaner in. Only after the MOT though, as it's working right now and I don't want to dislodge something. If that happens, I'll end up delaying getting it done and having an MOT makes going for test drives much easier after fixing other stuff.

Admittedly once the cooling system is cleaned out and heater valve changed, there isn't much left to sort. Mostly refitting the radio, fixing the damaged seat bolster and sorting the driver's side key lock. Then fit the alloys/change tyres. 

11 hours ago, Gerrymcd said:

I've lost count of the number of times I've caught the bloody door handle of the patio/ garage door on the side slits of my dickies boiler, whipping the whole door into my side. 

Thankfully my Dickies are pretty durable and don't easily rip. My fire resistant welding boiler suit however really is not! With the amount of holes in it now, I don't think it's offering me much protection.

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10 minutes ago, cort16 said:

They're very nice to drive but not exciting. They drive almost too much like a modern car, which make them a good classic daily but not really a "fun" car.

This is the crux why I don't think I'll enjoy it. 

I'm already getting the modern car vibes just working on it. It was cutting edge at the time of release and even though technology has moved on, the core basics are not too dissimilar. Power steering, electronic gauges, fuel injection, electric windows and even climate control. Size wise it's still pretty big compared to modern cars. It's longer than the latest Focus hatchback. Width wise it's only 10cm off one too.

I think it be a great car that is good for going to classic car shows that are a good few hours away. Also looks extremely cool. The damage on the body gives it some character and patina too. At least that's what I'm saying. 😆

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Skip has finally gone. This allowed rearrangement of the drive.
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I couldn't find the battery clamp for this, so I've ordered a universal tray that I was going to fit. Upon opening the bonnet on the first startup this morning to quickly check things over, I found said clamp. FFS.

These are a bit weird as I expected the top bent metal part to be the clamp. Instead this is the handle to screw it down.
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Fitted the new wipers I bought. The ones on there actually looked alright in hindsight. Oh well, I've bought these now so I might as well fit them.
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Then ran up the engine to temperature and made a lot of noise.

 

Which gave a reading on the CO detector at the other end of the garage. Oops.
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I think the only thing left now is booking and getting it to an MOT!

 

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  • SiC changed the title to 1985 BMW E28 520i - MOT booked!
23 hours ago, SiC said:

Skip has finally gone. This allowed rearrangement of the drive.
5a2229703c926565a936eb9a767967b5.jpg

I couldn't find the battery clamp for this, so I've ordered a universal tray that I was going to fit. Upon opening the bonnet on the first startup this morning to quickly check things over, I found said clamp. FFS.

These are a bit weird as I expected the top bent metal part to be the clamp. Instead this is the handle to screw it down.
fcf6d095f12c256cff49dce5ea2b8633.jpg
fc8b06ca884185329000a3952252b107.jpg

Fitted the new wipers I bought. The ones on there actually looked alright in hindsight. Oh well, I've bought these now so I might as well fit them.
22cda1eae3eb2e94c86b3962a14526a9.jpg

Then ran up the engine to temperature and made a lot of noise.

 

Which gave a reading on the CO detector at the other end of the garage. Oops.
30bf0a3f316160dd8bbb4a57d94fdaea.jpg

I think the only thing left now is booking and getting it to an MOT!

 

Might fail on that floorpan..................lots of patches........and someone stuck a CO2 meter to it........

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