St.Jude Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Cooper1 said: @Alan Prost The P38 earnt it's unsavory reputation in the 90s and early 2000s when it was thought to be spaceship level complex the rest is found by people who have unfortunately bought one that has been neglected by people who think they can run them on a Micra budget People look at them as "complex" this isn't the case a top spec MK7 Fiesta is more complex, P38's leccy bits don't throw fits for no reason, water ingress is usually enemy number 1. Another issue is people that unfortunately bought them when prices crashed, these types leave little niggles until they're massive issues. Then they throw a temporary bandage on the issue and flog it on to someone to experience the pain! The BECM doesn't act up unless it has had water introduced to it generally, usually leaking heater core O rings or leaking pollen filter covers saturates the carpet and the water wicks into the BECM and makes it go up the shitter. Air suspension again is thought to be massively complex, this isn't so the system is very easy to maintain a Valveblock rebuild every few years and a compressor rebuild every 2-3 years should see you right both those items can be done for less than £60 Air bags are around £45 a corner, they have a service life of around 5-8yrs EAS gets its unsavory reputation from neglect, the main issue is usually it takes a while to rise up or it sinks overnight, this isn't rectified in the early stages generally, people wait until its on the bumpstops with a EAS hard fault. And then the system is slated and instead of spending £260 ish on a complete EAS overhaul people spend £400 on a coil kit 🤨 HVAC system faults are known too, all of which are easy to rectify without removing the entire dash like some suggest Blend Motors Heater blowers Heater core O rings Are all easy to get at without major removal Engine issues are shared from the RRC Look up RV8 issues! Transmissions and axles last the course The chassis and body doesn't disappear after a hard rain. Their reputation for being shit simply isn't the case, having owned a neglected one for over 3yrs I can tell you that even a bad one isn't too hard to pull back around. I know as much as there is to know about them after going through mine without a clue and just blind determination And to be fair if i hadn't of been going down the "trial and error" route in the beginning it would of been a good sight cheaper to fix! learn't from my mistake!! To this,. If you think it'll be cheaper than an Allegro to maintain then you'll be surprised, not in a good way! Are they nowt but shit and cause nothing but problems? NO a properly maintained example is the best 4x4 you'll ever drive, the smiles per gallon are phenomenal And if a skint thick as shit 20yr old can run one of these, anyone can! the "massive expense" comes from people who have used main dealers or specialists to troubleshoot systems and fix. For example, will a mechanic charging an hourly rate, sit and rebuild an EAS block for £30? No of course not he'll fit a brand new valveblock for £900 and charge accordingly.. The same for the compressor, £20 rebuild of £400 genuine replacement? when you look at it like that, you see why they're thought to be expensive to maintain! Will a specialist do the blend motors or heater O rings the simple way or will he insist the entire dash has to be removed along with the heater core to fix it? Massive labour bill anyone?! That is where the "expensive to maintain" mantra comes from, if you do it yourself the cost is just the parts, which in P38 circles are quite cheap.. Nanocom is a great piece of kit to have and IMO is a necessity for the P38 £400 this is quite a bite in the wallet, but it pays for itself in a few months! This is the sort of straight cut, no-nonsense approach to vehicle maintenance that i have come to hate. It makes it so hard to argue against buying one! Cooper1, crad, goosey and 2 others 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Prost Posted January 11, 2021 Author Share Posted January 11, 2021 On 1/4/2021 at 12:57 PM, Broadsword said: I'm very jealous of your cloth seats and manual gearbox. Wish mine had them!!! I actually covet a P38 DT, but I haven't been able to find a decent one that is as reliable as my DSE auto. As an owner of a P-plate 2.5 diesel auto for well over two years now and 3 MOTs, they can be made good and reliable, but it is a commitment. First thing is to buy as good as possible an example you can get. Spend more buying a good one and I guarantee you will save money almost immediately. The chassis is very thick steel on the P38, totally unlike the Discovery 1/2 (which will actually snap in half), so rot isn't a real concern. With the diesel look out for injector pump issues. Other than that it is really the electricals and air suspension to be look out for. To get mine reliable it took a new starter motor, new alternator, a damn good service, new viscous engine fan, chasing down small electrical gremlins, gearbox service and crucially the often ignored failing in-tank fuel pump. If you see air bubbles in the clear fuel lines in the engine bay, it could be indication of the in-tank fuel pump failing. People seem to rush to rebuilding the injector pump first though, which had been done on mine prior to me buying it. I also highlight the importance of having the correct lead-acid battery to help these run well. The various modules in the car are very sensitive to voltage drops and the alternator will not charge a silver-calcium type battery properly. Often people fork out for a fancy expensive battery and the car just kills it slowly. A big plus is if like in the post above the immobiliser has been disabled at a software level, it will save you a great deal of hassle. Most want a BeCM rebuild by now also, which mine has had done already If you are keen there is a wealth of knowledge and they aren't actually horrible to work on. I do some videos on the P38 for my little YouTube channel. Here is a brief buyer's guide type thing, which you may find useful: Already watched this a few times so thanks! Broadsword and 124Cab 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Prost Posted January 11, 2021 Author Share Posted January 11, 2021 On 1/4/2021 at 2:52 AM, 124Cab said: I have a 98 BMW 6 cylinder 2.5 manual in Rioja red which I love dearly and intend on keeping a very long time. It's one of the better ones and I specifically chose a life long national trust member poverty spec car with manual cloth seats, manual gearbox, no wood cappings on the doors etc etc. Full history. Yarnolds Land Rover dealer number plates. Been tucked away most of 2020 but will get it out of hibernation when lockdown finally does one for good. It's been converted to coil springs which I see as a must if you want no fuss and drama in your life. It's bit rolly poly in comparison to air ride but more akin to the many RR Classics I've had, which is no bad thing. Just my opinion! Fitted Y2K lights and Hurricanes but have kept the gingercators and 16"s in the garage for a rainy day. I average just shy of 30mpg (real)/(34mpg trip computer) on mixed driving, much of which is down to the manual gearbox I'd imagine. R380 Disco/Defender type. Quite agricultural but that's what gives it character. BMW 6 cyl unit really sings with the manual gearbox as you can hang on to the gears. Fitted with a PSI tuning chip which helps performance quite remarkably but apparently these ruin the already weak autos when fitted. HVAC system is simple enough once you commit to chopping a good part of the inner center console away for ease of access. Same goes for matrix o rings. BECM rebuild is a few hundred at various specialists now. Old school tech, nothing scary. Quite a few people now specialize in these. Bugger when it goes but easily fixed and plug in. I've turned off my immobiliser and alarm at diagnostics level so have old fashioned keys with no chip/remote locking or drama now. It's now not endlessly checking itself and not not going to sleep when left for a week plus. £11 to cut a replacement no chip key blank as opposed to £250 from LR for a remote flip fob (they won't supply a valet key any longer). I have other forms of security before anyone chimes in 😉 I can cope with the electrical niggles as I'm not welding the bugger every 6 months! Ask me how I learnt that the hard way... My father always ran these when I was young and has two currently, one at 210k and its replacement on 125k. He estimated the 210k car cost him five grand over eight years he ran it for to keep reliable, and on air, which I think wasn't too bad considering how much these things were when new. He swears by them as they are supremely capable for living in the middle of the remote countryside. I'd recommend you choose wisely and do it before they start to rise in value, which inevitably they will looking at almost everything else LR related. Mine has not yet nor imminently looking to financially ruin my life. Learn how to be handy with a spanner and get the appropriate software and you're already ahead of the game. For perspective I paid £1200 for mine so the overall risk is minimal. Price me up an R plate Defender TDI or perhaps a late N plate sofdash RR? Both absolute bastards in their own ways and hugely expensive to buy, run and maintain. I'd love a V8 but I've not got shares in BP! Just the sort of thing, non leather and a stick.... love it! 124Cab 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goosey Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 I owned this for 3 years and it never let me down, 2.5 DT auto I sold it 4 years ago as I needed a 7 seater I would definitely get another one It’s still on the road but the new owner put a private plate on it, he regularly goes green laning round the U.K. and abroad without issues. 124Cab, Alan Prost and Carlosfandango 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hennabm Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 I considered one - but due to reports similar to those found in this thread I decided against it. Instead I bought the X5 3.0i. All I can say is that some of the issues are the same as they are very much the same underneath. Electrical issues certainly are a bugbear, rear air bags and BM54 module. Even though mine is only a straight six the mpg is around 16 - 24mpg. The V* version from BMW is around 8 - 14mpg. Old 4x4s of the era, by the time we get hold of them will have been neglected and maintained only by distress. This of course leads to some of the issues then encountered. Like me, it then takes time and money to sort. The return is a lovely driving position and a good solid car beneath you and the noise of the car - especially if a petrol V8. You pay your money and take your chance. Just try to find the best you can for your budget. stripped fred and MR SCRUFF 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goosey Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 1 hour ago, hennabm said: I considered one - but due to reports similar to those found in this thread I decided against it. Instead I bought the X5 3.0i. All I can say is that some of the issues are the same as they are very much the same underneath. Electrical issues certainly are a bugbear, rear air bags and BM54 module. Even though mine is only a straight six the mpg is around 16 - 24mpg. The V* version from BMW is around 8 - 14mpg. Old 4x4s of the era, by the time we get hold of them will have been neglected and maintained only by distress. This of course leads to some of the issues then encountered. Like me, it then takes time and money to sort. The return is a lovely driving position and a good solid car beneath you and the noise of the car - especially if a petrol V8. You pay your money and take your chance. Just try to find the best you can for your budget. I would have thought an X5 would have more in common with an L322 than a P38 ? hennabm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Prost Posted January 12, 2021 Author Share Posted January 12, 2021 9 hours ago, hennabm said: I considered one - but due to reports similar to those found in this thread I decided against it. Instead I bought the X5 3.0i. All I can say is that some of the issues are the same as they are very much the same underneath. Electrical issues certainly are a bugbear, rear air bags and BM54 module. Even though mine is only a straight six the mpg is around 16 - 24mpg. The V* version from BMW is around 8 - 14mpg. Old 4x4s of the era, by the time we get hold of them will have been neglected and maintained only by distress. This of course leads to some of the issues then encountered. Like me, it then takes time and money to sort. The return is a lovely driving position and a good solid car beneath you and the noise of the car - especially if a petrol V8. You pay your money and take your chance. Just try to find the best you can for your budget. On another twist I am now looking at a 325ti, total opposite to a P38, it's just dealing with the risk which in turn equals money......... hennabm and goosey 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimH Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 Someone might not have seen this already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minimad5 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Look at that interior, yes slightly shagged but looks comfortable. Must resist https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1995-M-RANGE-ROVER-4X4-2-5-DSE-5-SPEED-MANUAL-MOT-OCTOBER/154273696946?hash=item23eb6dccb2:g:CGIAAOSwB4tf8K-~ goosey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burraston2006 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 (edited) Here's the one I had. Loved it to bits. Usual HVAC error which I ignored. Suspension was fine. As Cooper 1 said only had to rebuild the compressor which was cheap and straightforward. I think it was on about 180k?? before it was scrapped. The top hose failed, so I replaced all of thise, then the thermostat want and the engine was cooked. The engine cooked it self in the middle of my gates so I didn't have far to get home! If that hadn't happened I would still have it. I would definitely have no issues in getting another. I would say get the 4.6 rather than the 4.0lt (mine was 4.0lt). In winter I used to wear a sheepskin coat so I felt like a 3rd division football manager in it! Edited January 23, 2021 by burraston2006 Spelling Stevebrookman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bezzabsa Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 owned 3 RR classics, and would love a P38 in westminster Blue with the cream leather with matching piping..either 2.5 dizzel or the 4.0 with LPG.. problem is theres only me, and can't really justify buying a 4x4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Tidybeard Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 57 minutes ago, bezzabsa said: owned 3 RR classics, and would love a P38 in westminster Blue with the cream leather with matching piping..either 2.5 dizzel or the 4.0 with LPG.. problem is theres only me, and can't really justify buying a 4x4 yes you can! 😉😁🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bezzabsa Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 10 minutes ago, Noel Tidybeard said: yes you can! 😉😁🤣 I COULD......but Living on ESA & PIP means I have to save for bloody months to even afford services n shit, plus living in a High rise means parked in an open space and nowhere to work on it.. when i owned the RR's I lived in a house with a decent drive, and of course ready access to 240Volts when needed.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy18s Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 My last one, a2.5dse auto which was a very relaxed drive Bought for £500 with a skipping transfer box drive chain,which I knew about and cost £100 for a good replacement And a permanently lit abs light which I wasn't told about untill I got there That turned out to be a front sensor loose in the hub,little araldite applied and that was that Usual hvac book symbol on the display,but everything else worked fine once I'd disconnected the rf aerial to allow the car to sleep properly This was the wifes "favourite piece of chod I'd ever bought",so high praise indeed Squirrel2, Stevebrookman, Minimad5 and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Prost Posted January 25, 2021 Author Share Posted January 25, 2021 On 1/23/2021 at 12:20 PM, Minimad5 said: Look at that interior, yes slightly shagged but looks comfortable. Must resist https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1995-M-RANGE-ROVER-4X4-2-5-DSE-5-SPEED-MANUAL-MOT-OCTOBER/154273696946?hash=item23eb6dccb2:g:CGIAAOSwB4tf8K-~ Localish to me and I loved the colours, I could cope with the farm look but not for what they are asking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Prost Posted January 25, 2021 Author Share Posted January 25, 2021 Just now, Alan Prost said: Localish to me and I loved the colours, I could cope with the farm look but not for what they are asking! And the stick 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minimad5 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Just now, Alan Prost said: Localish to me and I loved the colours, I could cope with the farm look but not for what they are asking! Yeah it doesn't look like it's had an easy life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooper1 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 They're good motors. Lets not forget even the youngest is tipping over the 20yr old mark!! I wouldn't have anything else now! 🤪 I'm a V8 freak so in my opinion there is no substitute for the power the V8 has, or hasn't depending on your point of view.. Go on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minimad5 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Stop - Having provisionally sold the TT, I'm now on ebay looking at P38s, all out of budget.... thankfully? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain_cal Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Do it! Just pulled this one out of a 3yr hibernation and it flew through the MOT with some handbrake adjustment and an ARB link. It's approximately 200% more watertight than the Porsche which means I can forgive its 12mpg thirst.. for a few months at least. Electrics are nothing to be feared as 9 times out of 10 you can just unplug the offending module (in my case a drivers door lock) and replace it for peanuts. There are so many out there breaking that parts have never been an issue. Basically it's the most comfiest magic carpet riding thing around and is my number 1 car of all time. stripped fred, Minimad5, Carlosfandango and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minimad5 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 I'd weirdly like a Diesel version, but limited research shows they seem to suffer with HGF. I've done a few headgaskets in my time, but can you still get a brand new Cylinder head (as they apparently crack) ?? And as I say- They're out of my budget, for now 🤷♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minimad5 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 This one is local, with no major looking advisories. No interior shots though https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2002-Land-Rover-RANGE-ROVER-HSE-D-2-5-HSE-D-5DR-AUTOMATIC-Estate-Diesel-Automati/303853309631?hash=item46bf118ebf:g:csAAAOSwSSlgBmiY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minimad5 Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 If you're looking at this: P38 Spares or Repair Bloke flogging it kindly uploaded this: First few seconds ahow the holes in the boot floor - Seems to be quite a lot of grot in this, but potentially manageable?. The reason for the video is he mentioned that the water was bubbling (which he failed to video), pretty hard to tell but do we think it could be HGF from that steam/ smoke / warmed up condensation ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goosey Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 7 hours ago, Minimad5 said: If you're looking at this: P38 Spares or Repair Bloke flogging it kindly uploaded this: First few seconds ahow the holes in the boot floor - Seems to be quite a lot of grot in this, but potentially manageable?. The reason for the video is he mentioned that the water was bubbling (which he failed to video), pretty hard to tell but do we think it could be HGF from that steam/ smoke / warmed up condensation ? Without looking at the expansion tank it’s a bit tricky to know for sure, ideally you would want to see bright red antifreeze/coolant in there. the m51 engines tend to suffer if the cooling system has been neglected ie run without antifreeze. if I had to guess I would say it had over heating issues prior to being parked up, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minimad5 Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 I've asked if it actually overheats, but apparently the temp gauge doesn't work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goosey Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 I would say they’ve already cooked it then, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy18s Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 stripped fred and Minimad5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minimad5 Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 1 hour ago, andy18s said: Oosh, must join that group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minimad5 Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 4 hours ago, goosey said: I would say they’ve already cooked it then, Not necessarily? Being a big old diesel, it could be that he's only letting it idle so not getting warm ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy18s Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 You'll need to be quick on anything that looks in decent condition Most are getting bought and broken for spares as they are as cheap as they will ever be now I'm always on the lookout for 1 here in Bg but anything decent will be around 4k Lev/2k Euro Minimad5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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