The grumpy thread

[DVee8]

A late 70's early 80's version yes..... plus that twat who sent in the fake tape, lived a massive 2miles from us…. once the 'voice and language expert' said it was a Sunderland accent he was properly grilled! Luckily he too was exonerated as he was on ship trials 8miles off-shore when one of the attacks took place. Kind of ironic as he did want to join the police - the interviews and 'handling' properly put him off though!

The fake tape guy lived around a mile or so from me.

[alcyonecorporation]

I have been asked career advice before. Just....no.

 

I have used my career to date as an example of how not to succeed (Senate intervention for first degree, wrongful accusations of paying an MA student to write and submit work, clinical depression, failed due to non-submission of coursework, failed studio business, three years of call centre work, useless second degree I actually finished, useless radio jobs).......

 

.....but even I'd say finish your degree, Max.

 

May I suggest a year's suspension/intercalation to get some money saved up, then go back and finish your final year? Perhaps sir would like to get a placement or two in for the CV?

[Captain Furious]

I'd have to disagree about degrees and IT.  I have worked in IT for nearly 20 years and I don't have a degree.  (school of hard knocks, university of live etc) For most of that time I never had any qualifications other than GCSE's, an MCP in Windows 2000 and A+.  I still made it to Senior Infrastructure Engineer.  When I wanted to get into networking and earn more money about 6 years back I self studied and got my CCNP and CCDP which did open a few doors in that world and allow me to move on more easily.

 

However, as pointed out above, you'll likely have to go in to a 1st line helpdesk role and progression can be tricky - you need to be willing to leave jobs and go elsewhere if you want a promotion.  But I think this is true of almost every industry and moving around is healthy, the idea of finding a job, doing it for 50 years and then immediately dying is not for me anyway.

 

I'm not saying don't finish your degree, if you're already 3 years in then you definitely ought to, but there are plenty of other IT qualification paths that will open just as many, if not more doors.  The IT landscape is changing massively too, everything is moving to the cloud whether companies like it or not, so there is going to be huge demand for skills in things like Office 365, Azure AD, G Suite, AWS etc.

[Kiltox]

I'd have to disagree about degrees and IT. I have worked in IT for nearly 20 years and I don't have a degree. (school of hard knocks, university of live etc) For most of that time I never had any qualifications other than GCSE's, an MCP in Windows 2000 and A+. I still made it to Senior Infrastructure Engineer. When I wanted to get into networking and earn more money about 6 years back I self studied and got my CCNP and CCDP which did open a few doors in that world and allow me to move on more easily.

 

However, as pointed out above, you'll likely have to go in to a 1st line helpdesk role and progression can be tricky - you need to be willing to leave jobs and go elsewhere if you want a promotion. But I think this is true of almost every industry and moving around is healthy, the idea of finding a job, doing it for 50 years and then immediately dying is not for me anyway.

 

I'm not saying don't finish your degree, if you're already 3 years in then you definitely ought to, but there are plenty of other IT qualification paths that will open just as many, if not more doors. The IT landscape is changing massively too, everything is moving to the cloud whether companies like it or not, so there is going to be huge demand for skills in things like Office 365, Azure AD, G Suite, AWS etc.

I work with many people who have been in the industry 20+ years and don’t have a degree however for those that have been here 5+ like myself it’s a different story.

 

You are able to progress due to your extensive experience - without such it’s an uphill battle.

 

Agree with you 1000% on your last bit though - the landscape is changing very rapidly.

[Liggle]

I'd have to disagree about degrees and IT...

 

...The IT landscape is changing massively too, everything is moving to the cloud whether companies like it or not, so there is going to be huge demand for skills in things like Office 365, Azure AD, G Suite, AWS etc.

Another IT bod here without a degree. I started as a trainee helpdesk monkey on £11.5k and worked my way up, don't get me wrong I had several frustrating years doing so and looking at my friends working in warehouses or sat on a till at Aldi earning noticeably more but it was well worth the wait... I'm now a Cloud Infrastructure Architect after 11 years in'trade. 

[Parky]

Financial services here - no degree.

 

Fell into it basically. Got a regular admin type job and people realised I wasn’t a complete idiot so let me have a little more responsibility and it went from there. Two or three of my mates who did go to Uni are doing better than I am although none of their degrees are actually in their field of work. They only went to avoid getting a job although I am not sure they would do that today when you look at the fees involved.

 

Best performing mate? Very senior at Merrill Lynch in New York now. Not only does he not have a degree, he failed all his A levels too. Another one is a very senior engineer in the US and whilst he has got an engineering degree now, he did that through the OU while working for HSS Hire shops.

 

Guy I worked with had a degree in Medicine. Seven years of study, qualified with honours, decided he would rather work in pensions!

 

Said it before and will say it again. There are skills we need and don’t have. Let’s make degrees and qualifications in those subjects free of charge. That way if you can’t afford to study but are intelligent, you can get a degree but not necessarily in what you like. Desperate to be a historian? That’s nice. £30k to study that thanks very much, but engineering degrees are free if you fancy it....

 

Worse case scenario is we end up with a shitload of engineers and not enough work for them. You can’t tell me there aren’t engineering jobs needed everywhere on the planet. Go west young folk, seek thy fortunes, and bring them all back in cash in a decade from now and buy a house outright

[3VOM]

I've had to stop taking my meds too as when I do take them now I keep passing out every time I tried to get out of bed, and spacing out for the rest of the day.

You need to get that checked and adjusted where possible by your doctor. You won't know how much of not taking your meds is causing other issues and a lot of that sort of medication can't just stop without other effects.

We also don't need you falling asleep while driving or riding round Manchester, there has to be a solution.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

In 1985 I was 21 , fallen into an amazing job on £20k a year working for 2 fit milfs ( must have been 30) in a music industry PR company, all the free receptionists, champagne and coke you could eat.

Fast forward 33 years and a customer of mine was reminiscing about when he was a student in 1985.

Turns out he used to walk past my flat in Wimbledon to catch the bus to Uni , probably even had to walk around my brand new white company XR3i parked half on the pavement.

Anyway now we're both 54 he's retired with a 911 Turbo and TVR Tuscan in the garage , a Golf R on the drive and goes all over the World to Grand Prix, Rugby, Golf, Horse Racing etc etc . I'm the one getting up at 04.00am to take him to the airport in a feckin' Passat...

I did feel( and act) like Billy Big Bollocks whenever I met school mates who were students in 1985 though, flashing the company credit card for drinks etc.

To rub salt in, those were the days that not only was uni free, you got a grant! What an idiot.

 

The moral of this tale is, get all the education you can, it's never going to hurt your future prospects . And make the university help you, youre paying a lot of money and if they were aware of your circumstances and needs when you signed up they should be offering you support. You can bet your life they can get funding for any extra resources based on your needs from the EA.

[Captain Furious]

So far as progression is concerned, I have always been of the opinion that you have one chance and one chance only to negotiate your terms and your place in the hierarchy, and that's the day they offer you the job.  I have been there myself, waiting on promises of pay rises that never materialise and promotions that exist in title only.  It eventually grinds you down to the point you have no motivation, which in turns brings down your life outside work too.  It seems to be a familiar story, I've seen a few people on here going through similar scenarios and seen friends and colleagues go through it too.

 

Maybe its more prevalent in industries like IT (and services in general) because they're always seen as a cost to the business rather than a revenue generator.  So the bean counters are more reluctant to give them funding.  One of the reasons I have stayed where I am now is they are making huge investments in their staff and infrastructure and have learned through the bitter experience of outsourcing that internal investment is the way forwards.

 

I still know that barring minor inflationary rises and incremental band increases I'm not going any higher at this place though.  I'd be waiting for the IT director to retire, hoping the head of infrastructure gets offered and takes his job, and then that I get his.  Which even if it all played out is not gonna happen for at least 10-15 years.  So if I decide I need more out of life then I'll have to change jobs.  Just the way it is.

[John F]

Not yet. Nordkapp is on the list of places to go, but it doesn't look cheap.

 

I spent a few days in nearby Hammerfest back in 2000... it's not cheap (= massive understatement), it was pitch dark all day except for a bit of twilight between 11am and 12.30pm, and it was very cold. I had a great time.

 

You won't find polar bears in north Norway nowadays though, their range is further north.

[Dave_Q]

I think the uni thing has been covered really but here's my 2p.

 

Its mainly a ticket to starting slightly higher up the ladder. I actually work in an area related to my degree and I only use stuff I learnt there 2% of the time.

 

As it happens my precious experince in unrelated jobs and hands on shite fettling is of much more use than anything from uni. But I would never have got through the door for the interview without the bit of paper that says I attended uni for some years and wrote at least one big bit of coursework.

 

You can work your way up from the bottom in any industry but I imagine it's normally much harder.

[Dave_Q]

Actually thinking about it, that leads me on to a grump. 

 

Modern universities are shite at teaching anything in a way that will stick. 

 

As my course was modular, all you had to do for any module was learn the 3 or 4 things you needed to pass the exam, do the exam, then instantly forget them. 

 

Occasionally at work I do need to draw for a bit of engineering maths and find that there are many things that I have technically passed an exam on but cannot recall or use in practice without googling it. 

 

Bring back Finals.

[loserone]

Not having a degree hasn't held me back, but it took ten years to earn the money to pay back what I borrowed in 15 months, and nearly as long getting the confidence I lost dropping out.

 

This far in, you're well invested, and will be asked why you dropped out after so long in interviews for years. Stick it out, man. You're better than me

[PhilA]

Sad day. Just booked the vet this afternoon to have the dog put down.

 

Phil

[The Moog]

Actually thinking about it, that leads me on to a grump. 

 

Modern universities are shite at teaching anything in a way that will stick. 

 

As my course was modular, all you had to do for any module was learn the 3 or 4 things you needed to pass the exam, do the exam, then instantly forget them. 

 

Occasionally at work I do need to draw for a bit of engineering maths and find that there are many things that I have technically passed an exam on but cannot recall or use in practice without googling it. 

 

Bring back Finals.

 

Knowledge isnt the currency any more. Google can know more than most people so the shift is in getting students to a level of critical thinking. 

 

In the US they are adopting Skills for the 21st Century focusing on the 4 C's - Collaboration, Creativity and innovation, Critical thinking and communication.  Rightly so these are seen as the more important skills in the workplace and in society. 

 

(Anyway will stop there as not a grump and will have to Mod myself) 

[chadders]

I spent a few days in nearby Hammerfest back in 2000... it's not cheap (= massive understatement), it was pitch dark all day except for a bit of twilight between 11am and 12.30pm, and it was very cold. I had a great time.

 

You won't find polar bears in north Norway nowadays though, their range is further north.

 

Yeah - my son was in Svalbard so he was 'lucky' to see them,

[chadders]

Sad day. Just booked the vet this afternoon to have the dog put down.

 

Phil

 

It's heartbreaking but we tried to deal with it in that their suffering would come to an end, in our cases riddled with cancer (twice) and lost use of their back legs.

I made a trolley for the last one but he was a proud dog and hated been wheeled around  - it put off the final day but, on reflection, we should have done it sooner rather than prolong the agony.

[PhilA]

It's heartbreaking but we tried to deal with it in that their suffering would come to an end, in our cases riddled with cancer (twice) and lost use of their back legs.

I made a trolley for the last one but he was a proud dog and hated been wheeled around  - it put off the final day but, on reflection, we should have done it sooner rather than prolong the agony.

Yeah, she's gone downhill in the last couple days and she's started to tremble so the time had come. The spirit is willing but the body has given up.

[chadders]

I'm gutted for you - do you have any kids as they are hit hard especially if they've grown up with them?

[PhilA]

Yeah. Wife's had the dog longer than she's had me around, the kids have had the dog around their entire lives. It's not gonna be easy but it's an undeniable part of life, is death.

 

But, having said that, the dog has led a long and happy life. 16 years ain't bad.

 

It's rather like turning up to find Unipart don't make the part you need any more

[wuvvum]

In 1985 I was 21 , fallen into an amazing job on £20k a year working for 2 fit milfs ( must have been 30) in a music industry PR company, all the free receptionists you could eat.

Historical sexual harassment claim incoming in 3... 2... 1...

[wuvvum]

16 years is a good run for a dog.  My brother's black lab is now 16 and still daft as a brush, but he isn't going to go on forever - my brother lives on his own so will be gutted when the dog goes.

[xtriple]

So sorry Phil

[Guest Hooli]

Sad day. Just booked the vet this afternoon to have the dog put down.

 

Phil

 

Sorry to hear that.

[Craig the Princess]

Sorry Phil, that's really sad.

Thoughts are with you.

[mrbenn]

Very sad. Sorry to hear that, Phil.

[Cavcraft]

Sympathies, Phil, very sad time.

[purplebargeken]

Sorry to hear this Phil, it's a miserable thing but we have to do it sometimes. Love the furries.

[PhilA]

Thanks for all the kind words. Trying to keep cheerful. Currently reassembling an old Budweiser Clydesdales lamp that was dropped.

 

 

 

It didn't run, then one of the stoner waitresses at the restaurant dropped it and didn't tell anybody... So now I've gotta reassemble it as well as make it turn again.

 

Phil

[DeeJay]

Sad day. Just booked the vet this afternoon to have the dog put down.

 

Phil

Sorry to hear that.

We had ours put down in September (him in my avatar).

House was so empty afterwards, we now have another 2 dogs.