Tamworthbay Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 50 minutes ago, Timewaster said: I never went to uni, but it always struck me that there are degrees you do for the love of the subject and others you do for career progression. Electronics, engineering, law, chemistry or medicine would be career degrees as they are sought by employers and there are jobs you can't do without them. Subjects like Literature, art, history, performing arts you do for the love of the subject. Some might get their dream job off the back of the degree but it is statistically less likely. If you love art and you can see it through then stick with it. It must be hard this year with all the remote learning and zoom bollocks. I agree, I think there should be quotas for funded places based on national requirements. So if you want to be a doctor then it won’t cost much. If you are the 100,000th person to want to do the history of renaissance art then you fund yourself. I did Biochemistry At Leicester Uni and the level of workload was four or five times what some subjects got. Craig the Princess and beko1987 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpiusMaximus Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 What I will say is that one of my lecturers was Chilean and brought up under Pinochet. In Santiago, all you could study was Mathematics, Engineering or Medicine (or related). No arts subjects. I am admittedly biased here (having studied an 'arts' subject at Lancaster around a decade ago) but the arts are an important part of our national identity and economy too. They don't appear as 'necessary' as other things (particularly in the current context) but society needs musicians, authors, artists, designers and if they didn't exist, life would be very different indeed. Even if you treat them as a means to another end, the cross-skilling from arts subjects can be significant. If you've ever tried to solve a Bach chorale then you'll understand how music (for instance) teaches skills that can be applied to a wide range of other areas. The loss of arts subjects (which may seem trivial to some) would be an enormous loss. chaseracer, RayMK and wuvvum 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timewaster Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 I guess there is a line between what is artistic talent and what can be taught. With sufficient education I could learn medicine and become a doctor. All the time and teaching in the world could not make me the next Gary Barlow or JK Rowling. But if I'd did have their talent then I'm sure I could learn how to apply it. Like all things in life, we need a balance. It would be a dull depressing world (moreso) if there were no arts and entertainment but equally we would be screwed if nobody did medicine and in 30 years all the doctors have retired or died. What sparked my interest in the subject, a kid I was at school with went on to do a degree in ancient history and the last time I saw him, he was sticking labels on bottles for a living. But he was properly weird - virtually unemployable anyway. GrumpiusMaximus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montytom Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 Currently sat doing a cpc course. If anyone has done them before you will know what I'm currently going through. I cannot complain to much as I still have a job unlike some other poor souls. warren t claim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpiusMaximus Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 Agreed on the need for a balance and I genuinely do understand the importance of fields like science, engineering and medicine. My brother is a programmer that has a PhD in Mathematics and two ABRSM music performance diplomas. He's also autistic and all of these things interrelate and he uses exactly the same approach for all of them. There is a cross-section of skill there. When it comes to the arts, talent gets you a headstart but no more than that and it's the application that really matters. Do, practice, do more and repeat. The same as any other field, repetition and practice moves you along. I'm a musician and sound engineer by study but work in IT. In many ways they're the same thing - just a slightly different application of my skills with some specific knowledge applied either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthbay Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 My nephew is on the max morphine now and it looks like the cancer will win in the next few days. Shouldn’t grumble as it was expected way back in the spring but the shite of this year has stopped him making the most of that extra time. There is no good time to have cancer but this year has to be one of the worst. wuvvum, iainrcz, nigel bickle and 12 others 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainrcz Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 8 minutes ago, Tamworthbay said: My nephew is on the max morphine now and it looks like the cancer will win in the next few days. Shouldn’t grumble as it was expected way back in the spring but the shite of this year has stopped him making the most of that extra time. There is no good time to have cancer but this year has to be one of the worst. For fuck's sake. Speaking as someone who has lost too many family members to it, it's an absolute cunt. Tamworthbay and strangeangel 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agila Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 3 hours ago, montytom said: Currently sat doing a cpc course. If anyone has done them before you will know what I'm currently going through. I cannot complain to much as I still have a job unlike some other poor souls. The instructor in mine was terrible last time. He didn't like me because for most vulnerable and least vulnerable road users I put hedgehogs and tank drivers respectively. (not funny but true, CBA.) Best think about them is the "discussion group" normally every couple of hours in the canteen. montytom and louiepj 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanky Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 12 minutes ago, Agila said: most vulnerable and least vulnerable road users I put hedgehogs and tank drivers respectively clayts450, warren t claim, chodweaver and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montytom Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 14 minutes ago, Agila said: The instructor in mine was terrible last time. He didn't like me because for most vulnerable and least vulnerable road users I put hedgehogs and tank drivers respectively. (not funny but true, CBA.) Best think about them is the "discussion group" normally every couple of hours in the canteen. With this virtual cpc I am by myself in the boardroom at work.i really think the people like the sound of their own voices and secondly dont you always seem to have the one person who keeps slowing the pace down to recall stories of days past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddyramrod Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 4 hours ago, GrumpiusMaximus said: society needs musicians, Does it ever! Have you listened to anything that's been written, or even covered, in the last 40 years or so? Almost without exception it's meritless depressing shit. I really wish I could write and play music! Sadly, I know it's never going to happen, I struggle enough to write prose. And yes, you're right, while we do need the sciences covering, we do also need some arts. Enjoyment is vital to the mental health of the nation. Uncle Jimmy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Laurence Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 52 minutes ago, eddyramrod said: Does it ever! Have you listened to anything that's been written, or even covered, in the last 40 years or so? Yes, plenty of it! I won't deny that the majority of stuff written for chart radio is total dross, but the exact same could be said of songs from 40 years ago. If you're prepared to search it out (I'd argue that services such as Spotify have made this easier than ever) , then there's no end of spectacular music written recently within every genre. brownnova, The Moog, Supernaut and 10 others 12 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpiusMaximus Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 As I've said before, don't bother listening to the radio. Go to www.bandcamp.com and search by 'Genre' and I'm sure you can find something you like within 10 minutes. I've bought literally hundreds of albums from there (and have my own page). I highly recommend it. strangeangel, Mr Laurence and eddyramrod 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthbay Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 54 minutes ago, Mr Laurence said: Yes, plenty of it! I won't deny that the majority of stuff written for chart radio is total dross, but the exact same could be said of songs from 40 years ago. If you're prepared to search it out (I'd argue that services such as Spotify have made this easier than ever) , then there's no end of spectacular music written recently within every genre. This ^^^^^ there were some good songs in the 50s but plenty of utter shite too, the same is true today and every time in between. I think it can be harder for less tech savvy people to access newer stuff these days as there is so much of it and most streaming services use algorithms which, whilst designed to present you with things you like, prevent you finding new stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimo Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 All of my Xmas booze is gone already. Only 6 months to go and the nights will be drawing in. HMC, Cavcraft, Stevebrookman and 2 others 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sierraman Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 At work we’ve got a WhatsApp group, I’ve left it today because I’m absolutely sick to death of the constant news feed about what’s not working for someone or ‘how do I do this’. It’s boring and adds nothing to my life whatsoever, I’ve got WhatsApp to keep in touch with friends and family not a constant ticker of boring work updates. Lord Sterling, Stevebrookman, Floatylight and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liggle Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 56 minutes ago, sierraman said: At work we’ve got a WhatsApp group, I’ve left it today because I’m absolutely sick to death of the constant news feed about what’s not working for someone or ‘how do I do this’. It’s boring and adds nothing to my life whatsoever, I’ve got WhatsApp to keep in touch with friends and family not a constant ticker of boring work updates. I feel your pain, even with it muted or occasionally archiving the chat its still bloody intrusive. sierraman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorniteIdentity Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 4 hours ago, GrumpiusMaximus said: As I've said before, don't bother listening to the radio. Go to www.bandcamp.com and search by 'Genre' and I'm sure you can find something you like within 10 minutes. I've bought literally hundreds of albums from there (and have my own page). I highly recommend it. You’re possibly listening to the wrong stations. I would say FIP from Radio France is the greatest station on the planet. It’s eclectic, engrossing, enriching and other things beginning with E. It’s stunning, and to my mind exactly what The BBC should be doing as a mixed effort between Radios 3 and 6. I don’t think anyone’s listening to Heart to feed their soul. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t have its place though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warren t claim Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 On 12/20/2020 at 3:24 PM, myglaren said: Call from youngest daughter. Flat tyre and her electric pump doesn't work - fag lighter socket U/S. Went up, couldn't get my car close enough to use my pump. Shifted her car to a flat bit and tried, nothing happening. Remove wheel - had to use the scissor jack as my trolley jack wouldn't quite go under the sill. Took it to tyre place (National, I think) and it is an unusual size that they don't stock but have one in that was to be returned. Otherwise wait until Tuesday. She needs her car for work so bought it - Michelin, £199.00 I was expecting about £85. I fit Sailuns, usually around £40. They had hundreds of them, just not her size. What size is it? I'll happily let you know what the cost price is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beko1987 Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 2 hours ago, sierraman said: At work we’ve got a WhatsApp group, I’ve left it today because I’m absolutely sick to death of the constant news feed about what’s not working for someone or ‘how do I do this’. It’s boring and adds nothing to my life whatsoever, I’ve got WhatsApp to keep in touch with friends and family not a constant ticker of boring work updates. I did the same 2 months ago. No ones noticed yet. My job (one of them) is 1st line app support and it spread to bloody WhatsApp. I've got teams on my phone cos it makes me visible when in reality I'm having a shit/gone out but I can turn that off and that's that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavcraft Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 National are absolute robbers (price wise) these days, amazed they're still in business to be honest. cobblers and Tamworthbay 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobblers Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 The story that a fiat 500 has a rare size of tyre and they just have one at an astronomical price that they were going to return is 100% complete bollocks, they've had your pants down big time man. He was probably leaning with his hand covering the tyre label of a suitable linglong £40 job while telling you that A 500 has got to be one of the most popular cars on the road, even if its got alloys etc, there's no way any tyre is genuinely £200 unless it's a foot wide. warren t claim and Cavcraft 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuvvum Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 13 hours ago, GrumpiusMaximus said: If you've ever tried to solve a Bach chorale then you'll understand how music (for instance) teaches skills that can be applied to a wide range of other areas. How does one go about solving a Bach chorale?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Jetter Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 Maths, pure maths. GrumpiusMaximus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymous user Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 26 minutes ago, wuvvum said: How does one go about solving a Bach chorale?? More to the point, how do you solve a problem like Maria? Jerzy Woking and Remspoor 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpiusMaximus Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 34 minutes ago, wuvvum said: How does one go about solving a Bach chorale?? https://vandykemusic.weebly.com/uploads/4/3/4/1/43415261/guide_to_bach_chorales.pdf http://www.choraleguide.com/ Dozens of simultaneous 'rules' to follow to harmonise in the style of JS Bach. It's difficult and you can find yourself cornered very easily. It's part of the A-Level music syllabus and a very standard part of formal musical learning (and most Universities will teach it too in the first year), as JS Bach is where most of the study of Western Common Practice music really gets going (i.e. early Baroque rather than Renaissance) in these contexts. I've always been pretty crap at it. But if you look at the sheer number of simultaneous factors that you have to take into account to harmonise the Chorale and then how there is a 'rule ordering' if you can't follow them all, it's absolutely nuts. It's high-level, methodical problem-solving and a process of logic and if you're really, really good you can make it sound nice, too. It's mathematics with a touch of aesthetics and if you can manage it, you can manage a lot of similar processes as it's a highly relevant general skill across a number of industries (as I'm sure you know). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Jetter Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 Musical, or black? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpiusMaximus Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 22 minutes ago, High Jetter said: Maths, pure maths. Every time you write a parallel fifth, Bach kills a kitten. And remember the sodding leading note to tonic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Jetter Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 ...and gin. The 7th tho... GrumpiusMaximus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuvvum Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 I wonder if Bach consciously came up with all those rules for harmonisation, or whether they were an unintended consequence of his composing? GrumpiusMaximus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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