Black number plates

[willswitchengage]

5 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

also have to wonder if the same "exemption" applies to or still does to steam vehicles?

granted I think in this case it might be a case of no one really minds/cares and you would have to be a copper having a particularly bad day to pull a model steam engine because its plates where the wrong colour LOL

Just for the LOLS factor I would have given that standard sized UK yellow and white plates with the EU GB sticker.

[St.Jude]

3 hours ago, martc said:

Fisticuffs - one reason (or is it the reason?) for reflective plates was the removal of the need for using 'parking' lights when parked at night (this was in 1971). The reflective number plate added an extra area of reflection to supplement the sometimes pathetic rear reflectors. And of course the front of a car doesn't have reflectors at all (except for the incidental light coming back from the headlight silvering). Yellow and white were chosen to help distinguish between the front and back of a car at night time.  Legibility must have been a consideration, but it wasn't the main reason for the change.

But wouldn't the reflective plates only work with a light source present? Also illuminating the actual car, along with the reflective thingybobs on the rear lights?

Technology has moved on so much you can get proper Priest Black and reflective white materials. Plus in the day light, again, gives you scope to make out the number plate in an easier to read fashion than dealing with yellow. Or white. Never really understood why we have white on the front and yellow at the back either, when every other country seems to go with one or the other.

2 hours ago, busmansholiday said:

It's still illegal to park a motor vehicle on any road where the speed limit is above 30mph without "parking lights". Hence why leaving your indicator on and removing the key often sticks a single sidelight on.

Not that I've seen plod do fook all about it for donkeys years.

My uncle on his new(ish) Fabia is the only guy I know who does that in the dog fog. I don't even think any car I own actually lets me do that.

[busmansholiday]

2 minutes ago, sgtberbatov said:

My uncle on his new(ish) Fabia is the only guy I know who does that in the dog

Isn't that still illegal?

[LightBulbFun]

1 minute ago, sgtberbatov said:

But wouldn't the reflective plates only work with a light source present? Also illuminating the actual car, along with the reflective thingybobs on the rear lights?

one thing to note that although most of us say reflective number plates

they are actually retroreflective in that they reflect light directly back to the source that it came from and as such are VERY effective at being seen at night even with a very dim light source

 

here is a good video on retroreflectors that I recommend people watch  

 

 

[Wilko220]

19 hours ago, Richard_FM said:

I can remember seeing cars as late as an N reg which looked they had original non-reflective plates.

The 1973 Book of Motor Roadtests has pictures with a mixture of plates colours I've uploaded the non-reflective ones.

 

Similarly, the cover stars of this early 70s Observer’s Book of Cars have black plates. Maybe different manufacturers had different preferences for a while 

 

[SiC]

17 minutes ago, sgtberbatov said:

Never really understood why we have white on the front and yellow at the back either, when every other country seems to go with one or the other.

I believe because our rules state that the rear of the car should never have any white light on it. Obviously reversing lights don't apply as you're travelling in that direction. Number plate lights don't apply as they are aimed at the number plate and reflect back. 

Likewise I believe the front of the car should never have any red light on it for obvious reasons. 

[Out Run]

2 hours ago, Dick Longbridge said:

Did your old 3i used to live in Cornwall? 

RS1600i.

Indeed it did. I recall finding a YouTube video of some Powderham Castle RSOC thing and it was there.

It's a small world. Did you see it?

[Angrydicky]

21 minutes ago, Wilko220 said:

Similarly, the cover stars of this early 70s Observer’s Book of Cars have black plates. Maybe different manufacturers had different preferences for a while 

 

It's strange how press cars seemed to keep black plates much later. I wonder if it was for photographic purposes, someone thought they might cause problems with camera flashes reflecting off the numberplates and ruining the shots? Whatever the reasoning behind it, I'm sure it's long forgotten about so we will probably never know for sure.

[Dick Longbridge]

28 minutes ago, Out Run said:

RS1600i.

Indeed it did. I recall finding a YouTube video of some Powderham Castle RSOC thing and it was there.

It's a small world. Did you see it?

I'm a number plate nerd without wanting to be. I recognise the plate and was pretty confident that I must have seen it around here in Mid Cornwall. Would have been years ago now I'd say.

Edit:  I've found your RR thread from 2013 and bizarrely,  I appear to have commented then mentioning that I thought I recognised it from Cornwall! Slightly surreal. I'm convinced it lived in the St Austell area.

[chaseracer]

2 hours ago, Mr Pastry said:

I suspect the main reason was that they were already working on ANPR back in the 1970s.....

[Out Run]

14 minutes ago, Dick Longbridge said:

I'm a number plate nerd without wanting to be. I recognise the plate and was pretty confident that I must have seen it around here in Mid Cornwall. Would have been years ago now I'd say.

Edit:  I've found your RR thread from 2013 and bizarrely,  I appear to have commented then mentioning that I thought I recognised it from Cornwall! Slightly surreal. I'm convinced it lived in the St Austell area.

😂👍🏻 I'll have to have a look for that thread. I had one on here, too.

That car was on 18 owners iirc, when I got shot. I was happy though. Itch scratched and it left in great all round shape.

Shame it lost the original plate of TWO 80Y to Nicky Clarke in the 90s  (maybe that one? Lol) according to the paperwork I had.

[Isaac Hunt]

19 hours ago, DSdriver said:

Some cars look better with yellow plates than others

 

Which is why my DS now has this

 

But I have kept the original dealer plates for when the "old money" plate  goes on another car.

Kinell, that 2RKE Plate is top dollar.  Is that an original Kent issue or a DVSA auction release ?

[St.Jude]

1 hour ago, SiC said:

I believe because our rules state that the rear of the car should never have any white light on it. Obviously reversing lights don't apply as you're travelling in that direction. Number plate lights don't apply as they are aimed at the number plate and reflect back. 

But why? I can only think of the USA and the Netherlands who don't have white rear plates?

Is it an attempt at not following the europeans? I know when they were debating the new number plate rules in parliament someone pointed out the Irish system of the year, county, then random numbers, and wondered why we couldn't do that, and the MP said "Well we don't want to do everything the Irish do". Or words to that effect. Caused much merriment in my house!

[martc]

 

1 hour ago, sgtberbatov said:

But wouldn't the reflective plates only work with a light source present? Also illuminating the actual car, along with the reflective thingybobs on the rear lights?

You're right, they only work when a light is shone on them so are only useful for passing vehicles; but the parking light was only on the offside so was only useful for passing vehicles. I disagree slightly about the lights lighting up the whole car there are often circumstances, particularly in poor lightning, where the first sign of a dark car against a dark background is seeing the plate/reflectors reflect (or should that be 'retroreflect'?). Don't forget back in the early 70's street lighting, in fact lighting in general, was much sparser than it is now.

[mat_the_cat]

Here's a question for those who may remember - when black and white plates were common (say in the 60s), did they tend to be the raised digit type? Or were they a mixture of those and the pressed aluminium type? I've got the latter and think they look a bit 'modern' - were they a thing back then?

[Mr Laurence]

7 minutes ago, mat_the_cat said:

Here's a question for those who may remember - when black and white plates were common (say in the 60s), did they tend to be the raised digit type? Or were they a mixture of those and the pressed aluminium type? I've got the latter and think they look a bit 'modern' - were they a thing back then?

I wasn’t around that long ago, so I can’t say for certain, but looking at old photos, it seems to have been roughly a 50/50 split - maybe a few more of the raised digit type. I think the trouble with the ‘modern’ aluminium plates is that most of them seem to use the new post 2001 font for some reason, so they tend to look a bit off

[bunglebus]

Bit of both definitely. Pretty sure there are different rules for really old cars being able to run odd fonts etc that are in keeping with how things were when they were new, we are still quite fortunate that UK vehicle law seems to follow a pattern of if it was OK when the car was new, it's OK now - only exception I know of is fixed windscreen cars have to have screen washers. Everything else is fair game, so you can have cable drum brakes, crossplies with 1mm of tread, white front/red rear indicators, no seatbelts etc etc etc if that's what the law was at the time.

I've had 60's stuff with both pressed metal and metal/plastic digit plates, always been white/yellow though.

[LightBulbFun]

19 minutes ago, mat_the_cat said:

Here's a question for those who may remember - when black and white plates were common (say in the 60s), did they tend to be the raised digit type? Or were they a mixture of those and the pressed aluminium type? I've got the latter and think they look a bit 'modern' - were they a thing back then?

tended to be a mix, I THINK the pressed plates where a bit cheaper so you would tend to see them on fleet vehicles and the such like

there where also a massive variety of different manufacturers making plates each with their own font etc (especially on pressed plates)

but a lot of modern pressed plates as such have wrong fonts or are of just poor quality hence why a lot just look a bit off

 

[eddyramrod]

I agree with @MrLaurence.  I actually have a couple of genuine 60s pressed black plates from cars I or my family owned, and the characters look huge even compared to suffix registrations.  It's because they were!  When the suffix letter was introduced, in 1963, the regulations were revised to fit the extra letter on the plate, and in 2000 it happened again, probably for similar reasons. 

[eddyramrod]

As an aside... Cyprus followed the UK pattern for decades, and I have some plates I removed from scrap cars over there.    Well up into the 80s - in fact I think right up to about 1992 - they only used a two letter/three number combination, so the "old" larger characters were still common.   Classics are routinely issued with three numbers and one suffix letter - A.  Nobody seems to mind if the owner then chooses black plates, regardless of the age of the car.  Just thought some of you might find that interesting...

[HMC]

Just a few period shots from the Sainsbury’s archive stash that I remember because of the type of plate and age of the vehicle. Some on the crossover, others clearly having had a replacement in later life.

[mat_the_cat]

42 minutes ago, eddyramrod said:

I actually have a couple of genuine 60s pressed black plates from cars I or my family owned, and the characters look huge even compared to suffix registrations. 

That's it - I've just twigged! Even if they use the wider pre-2001 font, the digits are 3 1/8" high rather than the pre-'63 3 1/2". But at £60 for a pair of plates, I may live with it for now...

[Alusilber]

4 hours ago, SiC said:

I believe because our rules state that the rear of the car should never have any white light on it. Obviously reversing lights don't apply as you're travelling in that direction. Number plate lights don't apply as they are aimed at the number plate and reflect back. 

Likewise I believe the front of the car should never have any red light on it for obvious reasons. 

That's plausible. My guess was that yellow plates would give less glare to the driver behind the car in a queue of traffic at night while still providing good contrast in daylight (unlike the Irish red plates, which I always thought were a bit low in contrast). Just a guess though.

[DSdriver]

3 hours ago, Isaac Hunt said:

Kinell, that 2RKE Plate is top dollar.  Is that an original Kent issue or a DVSA auction release ?

An original Kent issue to a good friend who has now passed away, it was originally on a red Mini Traveller which was sold to my mother in the 1960s and has been on a line of family cars ever since.

[High Jetter]

Looks good on the DS

[jonathan_dyane]

/\ The Wartburg reg is very apt

[Richard_FM]

I remember being on a Ro-Ro ferry to France in 1993 where the car parked in front had red on black plates. It seemed harder to read in low light conditions.

Luxembourg also has black on yellow plates.  Belgium also is a bit different with red on white plates, to complete the Benelux trifecta.

Some countries seem to have colour coded plates for different vehicle categories, with private cars  normally having black on white plates.

After reflective plates were introduced it seems many owner of older cars had them fitted to make them look newer.

[Adrian_pt]

The flip side is seeing raised-letter white plates on anything pre about 1965 - a true sign of a giffer mobile in the 80s and 90s. I remember seeing quite a few on utterly shagged Morris Minors and the odd Ford Consul. 

[Asimo]

On 15/12/2020 at 22:04, mat_the_cat said:

Here's a question for those who may remember - when black and white plates were common (say in the 60s), did they tend to be the raised digit type? Or were they a mixture of those and the pressed aluminium type? I've got the latter and think they look a bit 'modern' - were they a thing back then?

I think it was a pretty close to even split between pressed aluminium and plastic raised characters. Also a lot of plates were replaced or repaired with stick-on plastic characters (available just about everywhere) which in themselves replaced hand painting. 
looking at pictures of Dad's cars, 50s and 60s tat in the 1960s and 70s and both bikes and cars; all 3 “technologies” are about equally represented.

The first reflective plates I had were on a ten year old  ‘67 VW and the rear plate was old enough to be very faded, the clip-on plastic letter type. No idea if it was original to the car however.

[adw1977]

A late example of black on white plates in a manufacturer brochure is this 1973 Wolseley brochure:

Looks like the photos have been altered to change the plates from L to M suffix.

Full brochure link

More white on black M suffix plates on show in this 1974 Range Rover brochure: