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Pug 206 too good to scrap: exhaust fun.


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The Peugeot of last resort was returned to the road today after its summer vacation. It looks like the head gasket has failed again. It was repaired last time by the village garage so I am thinking it would be better to find a specialist if there is such a thing for this engine. Its a 1.4 petrol with auto box and has only done 57k miles being in our family from new. 

Recommendations of good mechanics in the mid Kent area would be appreciated.

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7 minutes ago, Sigmund Fraud said:

I've just done one of those, they're not exactly rocket science... Is it the TADTS fault of mixing oil and water ?

Blowing steam out of the exhaust and losing rad coolant. Temp gauge up and down.

I haven't done a head gasket myself for many years and certainly not on anything as complex, or outdoors, or in winter, or with an engine that points sideways. My time is much better spent earning the money to pay a professional to do the job.

I am wondering if the head needs skimming or is cracked. 

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I'm not suggesting you do it yourself ; the point I was trying to make was that it's a really straightforward job that any competent garage should be able to do in a few hours.

If it's failed twice with similar symptoms, it would be worth getting the head to a good engineering company to ensure it's flat and pressure test it.

Also, keep in mind that the TU is a wet liner engine, so if the head is good (and I would expect it to be after less than 60K miles, unless it has overheated) the garage need to ensure the liners have not moved (which could have happened during the previous repair, if they had turned the engine over with the head removed).

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Thanks for that advice, I think I have found someone to do the job if they are prepared to take it on. It is quite likely that the car has overheated whilst being driven by my wife (and she is the main driver). Although today she did check the temp gauge because I told her to. 

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News update:

The classic mechanic I had approached did not want to take this job on but we had a nice email conversation about the Wateringbury Citroen garage that he used to work at and where I had my cars serviced back in the eighties.

So I rang our local garage and explained the problem, they checked their records and the last HGF was in 2012. My, how time flies. So the car is booked in for next Tuesday and the will be sending the head away for testing as recommended above.

Meanwhile, I might be tempted to remove the info display panel and clean up the contacts to see if I can encourage some of the dots back into life. Is there a knack to removing it or do I just lever it out pinging bits of broken plastic all over the dash?

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  • 3 months later...

Sitrep!

In January

Local garage removed cylinder head, sent it away for skimming and pressure testing and relieved us of lots of money.

MrsDS used the car to go shopping a couple of times then I used it to take parrot to vet because Saab battery was flat. I quickly found out that the heater didn't work and that temp gauge was erratic.

Local garage spent a week finding out that there was a blockage in the gearbox oil cooler so bypassed it and didn't charge us. Also replaced filler cap with a new one because it looked a bit tired. When they reckoned it was ready I asked them to MOT it as it is due at the end of the month. It passed after a couple of minor faults were sorted.

MrsDS has used it only a couple of times to go shopping.

Last weekend:

I checked the coolant level and found it to be nearly at the bottom of the reservoir. Filled it to half full with OAT.

Tuesday 23rd. Phoned garage and told 'em. "Bring it in and we'll have a look at it" which we did.

Today - Wednesday 24th. Nothing heard yet. They must be having a good look! 

 

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Hmmm... One possibility is that the garage didn't follow the correct procedure to bleed the cooling system. It eventually self-bleeds, which could explain the coolant level going down after a few days of using the car.

The other possibility is that there is a leak somewhere in the system. Common culprits are the stupid plastic housing on the right hand side of the head (I now know to use half a tube of Reinzosil to seal it !) and the OEM spring clips (I now know to replace them with Jubilee clips !).

 

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On 2/25/2021 at 11:25 AM, Sigmund Fraud said:

Hmmm... One possibility is that the garage didn't follow the correct procedure to bleed the cooling system. It eventually self-bleeds, which could explain the coolant level going down after a few days of using the car.

The other possibility is that there is a leak somewhere in the system. Common culprits are the stupid plastic housing on the right hand side of the head (I now know to use half a tube of Reinzosil to seal it !) and the OEM spring clips (I now know to replace them with Jubilee clips !).

 

Option A 

They have been using it as a gopher and it has been fine. So we collected it this afterlunch, nice day for a drive across the weald in the sunshine.

I might treat it to a new clock/information display if it is going to behave itself.

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  • DSdriver changed the title to Pug 206 too good to scrap wanted clock/display panel

I've just put an ad in the for sale/wanted forum because all the clock/display units on ebay are for the post millenium cars. Are they compatible with the early cars? I see they have reduced manufacturing costs by reducing the number of backlight bulbs.

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You're right that the units are different for conventional and CANBUS wired cars, but IIRC there are also differences between model years and trim levels.

Being Peugeot, it would not surprise me if none of them are interchangeable. Is your current unit beyond repair ? Sometimes all they need is new bulbs, sometimes you need to change the ribbon cable which is fiddly but not impossible.

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Its probably the ribbon as I have put all new bulbs in and it lights up fine but most of the pixies are asleep. I tried rubbing over the ribbon connections without disassembling  to zero improvement. 

So I looked on Ebay and they aren't that expensive second hand but they are all different to mine. I was going to have a go at removing and reconnecting the ribbon once I had a working unit so I had nothing to lose if I messed it up. I still have a DS speedo unit in bits from about five years ago which I should reassemble but never seem to have the time.

Second hand price/faffing ratio puts the ball firmly in the second hand court.

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  • DSdriver changed the title to Pug 206 too good to scrap: change auto-transmission fluid, Y/N?
5 hours ago, Sigmund Fraud said:

PSA says "sealed for life", but I'd replace the ATF every 60k because it's easier and cheaper than replacing the box.

For more info on how to do it, see here.

Aha I have a couple of years before I need to do it at current rate of usage :)

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13 hours ago, DSdriver said:

When I asked the garage whether the autobox oil should be changed they said "best leave well alone"

What do you think?

If it's working, leave it be.

I once asked a good autobox specialist about an oil change in the BM and he said that he could do that and charge me £500 for the privilege (I gather ZF oil makes angels' tears look cheap) but in all likelihood, it could easily make matters worse. "Put your £500 in the bank towards a rebuild in the future - should it need it" was his advice.

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AL4 box service is straight forward enough if someone knows what they are doing. 

They use a particular fluid type that smells like fish (I forget what it's called now). 

The drain/level/fill plug deely is what confuses people. It needs to be on level ground and to a set temp to do properly but if the fluid is contaminated it wants changing. 

Iirc there is a counter for the oil on the ecu system that will want resetting too but that could only be the later canbus cars I'm not 100% sure. 

Engines are an absolute doddle to swap if the worse happens and you should be able to use a manual cars engine and just have some of the auto engine parts swapped over such as the flex plate in place of the flywheel and maybe some of the coolant pipes. 

If the car is solid I would say its worth doing as better the devil you know and all that..... just comes down to cost if not DiY really which is a major issue with lots of garage labour charges at £60+ hourly 

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11 hours ago, R1152 said:

I once asked a good autobox specialist about an oil change in the BM and he said that he could do that and charge me £500 for the privilege (I gather ZF oil makes angels' tears look cheap) but in all likelihood, it could easily make matters worse. "Put your £500 in the bank towards a rebuild in the future - should it need it" was his advice.

I know nothing about BMWs, but a drain and refill of the 206 box should require around 4 litres. Opie lists the correct LT 71141 fluid for £12/litre.

This should leave you with enough change from your £500 to buy another roadworthy 206 as a backup !

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As for the cooling issue these things are fantastically easy to bleed as I found out the other day on the berlingo. 

I'd left it running forgetting it was the one with a switch operated engine fan, as the other one has a switch operated interior fan!!!! 

It got hot, off the gauge hot, and when I shut the engine down something blew out and coolant went everywhere, balls!!! 

Found the blowout was simply a jubilee clipped bung under the rad, easily fixed. 

Few days later, filled it with water first to bled through, getting nowhere, running rough, no heat in the cabin, suspected the worst. 

Stopped engine, filled coolant tank right up to the brim and looked around for a bled point. 

Low and behold, there's one right at the top of the cooling system, a tyre cap thing by where the matrix goes into the car. Ran it again with the bleed cap off, tons of pressurised air coming out, then suddenly some water, gave it a few revs to say 2500rpm, bubbles disappeared and just pure water flowing through, heaters at hand melting levels and car sitting at 80 degrees. 

Drained a lot out and topped up with antifreeze, did the same but hardly any Air came out yet no further issues. 

Only thing I did wrong was lose the little cap for it, so I pinched one off a spare tyre and replaced it when I found the original after I moved the car. 

Pretty tough things to be fair. 

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  • 1 month later...

The back box of the exhaust parted company with rest of the system on Wednesday. It was already booked in at ATS because it was blowing.

They had the parts ready to go on but of course they didn't fit, reckoned that replacing the cat would solve the problem. I pointed out that that would just move the non-fitting problem further along the pipe at more expense and that a sleeve was all that was needed because the spigot on the new pipe was the same diameter as the pipe out of the cat. And that is what happened with an extra discount. :)

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  • DSdriver changed the title to Pug 206 too good to scrap: exhaust fun.

Funnily enough I picked up a 2003 206 auto with 56k and a failed head gasket last year.  Daughters car. We got all the work done, head skimmed. Elring gasket set, Gates cambelt kit with w/pump, new middle rear exhaust section, front radius arms.  Going ok, but she came round last week with low coolant. I topped it up and has been ok, so will watch it.  May need a new bottle and cap but no oil mixing.  I will try and get another year out of it.

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Sounds like we have a matched pair, is your's also a four door 1.4? Does it also sometimes go into limp-home-mode on cold days so that you have to do a restart?

They replaced our bottle cap just in case but we think the problem was just the air lurking in the system.

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11 hours ago, DSdriver said:

Sounds like we have a matched pair, is your's also a four door 1.4? Does it also sometimes go into limp-home-mode on cold days so that you have to do a restart?

They replaced our bottle cap just in case but we think the problem was just the air lurking in the system.

It hasn't went into limp mode but about 4 months ago engine light came on and stayed on..................it was the top Lambda sensor. New Bosch one and light reset has fixed it.

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