Old and New

[puddlethumper]

I was socially distancing up the pub and when I came out I couldn't help but take a pic of this.

Don't know if a thread can be made out of this. If not I'm sure it will disappear fairly quickly.

I know it includes my own heap classic van but could be any old shite with any new shite.

[maxxo]

it's always very interesting to see old and new vehicles together

especially the size difference, new cars are huge!

 

[stuboy]

i always wonder if new cars will survive as long

[puddlethumper]

7 minutes ago, stuboy said:

i always wonder if new cars will survive as long

I was thinking much the same at the time. Will they make it to 32 ? Somehow I doubt it. The electronics will kill 90% plus.

[St.Jude]

2 minutes ago, puddlethumper said:

I was thinking much the same at the time. Will they make it to 32 ? Somehow I doubt it. The electronics will kill 90% plus.

I'm not so sure. I think - if any children is watching - electronic specialists will increase in number. Not just people understanding the electrics of a vehicle, but right down to the software. Software engineers producing alternatives for the onboard ECU's. That's already happening actually with the Speeduino project anyway.

I would also bet that those around in the 1960's were saying the same thing about the cars of that day. Would they be around in 20 years? But people specialise in marques or specific areas and the cars are catered for.

[eddyramrod]

This seems like a good point to air this photo again...

Tomato, my Cypriot Metro van, meeting his grandad!

Also...

My 1993 Mercury Sable, with his grandad!

[RayMK]

My son's old 1994 Tipo (now mine) with his new Tipo 1.3 Diesel.

[Dick Longbridge]

1 hour ago, puddlethumper said:

I was thinking much the same at the time. Will they make it to 32 ? Somehow I doubt it. The electronics will kill 90% plus.

They said that about anything with an ECU. Plenty of thirty year old J still running sweetly with complex electronics compared to their 70s or even 80s counterparts. 

[Spiny Norman]

My 22 year old Freeloader with what I gather is its current equivalent, a neighbour's RR Evoque. And for once the older car isn't totally dwarfed by the new one.

[2MB]

17 minutes ago, RayMK said:

My son's old 1994 Tipo (now mine) with his new Tipo 1.3 Diesel.

The Tipos don’t look too dissimilar in size, but it’s hard to tell with the perspective. The old ones did seem quite chunky when they were current but have aged very well

[RayMK]

1 minute ago, 2MB said:

The Tipos don’t look too dissimilar in size, but it’s hard to tell with the perspective. The old ones did seem quite chunky when they were current but have aged very well

The old Tipos were indeed slightly wider than average for cars of similar class in the same era but now look small compared with most modern equivalents. The new Tipo is a bit larger all round though the old one feels more spacious inside. Both manage rough roads very comfortably.

[2MB]

This photo is nearly a decade old so the moderns are old hat now, but the middle aged spread is still clearly apparent. My E30 never felt narrow 

[puddlethumper]

45 minutes ago, Dick Longbridge said:

They said that about anything with an ECU. Plenty of thirty year old J still running sweetly with complex electronics compared to their 70s or even 80s counterparts. 

I get your point to a certain extent but round my area I very rarely, if ever, see anything 20 years old never mind 30.

Maybe my example wasn't the best comparison. Perhaps an Ashtray van might have been better. I've looked at them 

as a possible replacement, should mine go totally tits up, and most ten to fifteen year old ones are spears and reapers.

Maybe the more upmarket models will fare better because of desirability and scene but I've seen many 10 year old, and

younger, cars in scrapyards because of electronics going tits up.

[Richard_FM]

I remember on another site we were trying to work out the sweet spot for reliability  for car, & came to the conclusion of the early 1990s, when rust proofing was good enough, but before cars started to become too computerised.

Saying that I still see a lot of late 1990s cars in everyday use so it wasn't as if it was a cliff edge.

[maxxo]

I'd say for longevity it all depends

There does seem be a huge lack in car maintenance at the moment, such as nearly new cars with completely bald tyres or ditchfinders

i see many mega mile toyota prius's and other japanese hybrids still holding on

ECU failure all things considered seems to be pretty rare and there are hundreds of compaines out there that repair them

it's the small displacement turbo charged engines which concern me, especially with long service intervals

i dare say if it's not thrashed from cold and has the oil changed every 6k or so i don't see why they shouldn't last

seems the main killer of 2000s cars now is lack of maintenance of those like mine in the "cheap banger" stage, or manufacturer/dealer funded "scrappage schemes"

for example, dads 2018 civic

it has the 1.5 turbo vtec engine which seems to have suffered some oil dilution issues in cold climates due to the engines not being properly warmed up

and it's compleletly loaded with tech, however that's japanese tech so it does make me wonder

it seems to be very well screwed together.

need to remember rust proofing is pretty decent these days, obviously there is still some of the usual rot traps but theres a lot of 10-15 year old cars with only surface rust which is good going compared to say 30 years ago

it will be very interesting to see how the current models hold up over time

[Out Run]

Here is my MR2 being dwarfed by a GT86.

The ‘MINI’ visiting my neighbour made me do a double take, too. I reckon it could drive over my car.

[bunglebus]

22 minutes ago, maxxo said:

There does seem be a huge lack in car maintenance at the moment, such as nearly new cars with completely bald tyres or ditchfinders

That's because cars are now regarded in the same way as a mobile phone or a TV. Everyone wants the latest one full of tech, after three years it's old hat. 

They're just expected to work every time with zero maintenance from the owner, years ago people knew it was a machine and had to either look after it themselves or get it serviced every 6000 miles by a garage if they couldn't. 

Maybe in some ways it was better when you knew you had to open the bonnet at the weekend and jack it up for a check over once in a while, then you noticed the inside edges of the tyres were getting a bit low.

[Grumblespeed]

4 hours ago, puddlethumper said:

I was thinking much the same at the time. Will they make it to 32 ? Somehow I doubt it. The electronics will kill 90% plus.

To be fair, 90% plus of the cars from 32 years ago haven't made it either!

[Rod/b]

9 hours ago, Spiny Norman said:

My 22 year old Freeloader with what I gather is its current equivalent, a neighbour's RR Evoque. And for once the older car isn't totally dwarfed by the new one.

Park it next to a Disco Sport, the successor to the Freelander line,  and see what you think then!

[MiniMort]

Here's a Moggie vs a C1. Really shows how small cars were back in the 50s!

[yohan]

12 hours ago, puddlethumper said:

I was thinking much the same at the time. Will they make it to 32 ? Somehow I doubt it. The electronics will kill 90% plus.

Electronics is one thing. The complexity and cost of parts is usually the deciding factor for most people. Especially when a new dual mass flywheel or particle filter costs more then the market value of the car. Then there is the massive overheads that modern garages have to factor in their labour rate. Apparently alot of Toyota Prius‘s are being written off because of the cat being stolen and its not cost effective to replace them.

[sierraman]

A lot of the electronics are solid state, there’s not a deal to go wrong. Part of the issue is probably that in this country you can get a good serviceable car for not a lot therefore it’s not worth troubling yourself with keeping a nail going. Case in point, earlier this year I had a 1999 Mondeo, the rear anti roll bar snapped, couldn’t find another, wanted a bit of welding, ultimately I couldn’t be arsed and went and bought something better. 

[Rocket88]

It's a constant game of catch up........manufacturers introduce some new fangled thing, that if it goes wrong, only they can fix it.....until someone comes up with a far cheaper way of doing it..........manufacturers then invent ANOTHER new fanged thing..ad infenitum..........

[juular]

10 hours ago, maxxo said:

it's the small displacement turbo charged engines which concern me, especially with long service intervals

i dare say if it's not thrashed from cold and has the oil changed every 6k or so i don't see why they shouldn't last

My entirely anecdotal and therefore useless contribution to this: I bought a 2017 Renault Trafic in 2019 with around 75000 miles on it, it's the one with the 1.6 engine and two turbos.

Dealer had 4 of them from the same previous owner in stock, and told me they had done this mileage up and down the motorway transporting perspex and plastic signage between depots in Scotland and Wales. I did speak to that company to verify this. It was all dealer stamped up and had several services a year. It's probably the easiest life you could have for a vehicle, transporting light stuff at a constant speed on a good road. 

I got a week out of it before I noticed the turbo was screeching and there was oil all over the top of the engine. A glove over the oil filler got completely blown off, the crankcase pressure was so high. Piston rings and turbo probably shot.

Took it back, got a refund and the dealer, who was actually really decent about it, admitted he'd had one of the other vans back with turbo issues.

I noticed the new 2020 trafics have gone back to the 2.0 sized engine with a single turbo.

[Pete-M]

I think a lot of the reasons we don't see many older cars in the UK are as follows

1. UK has the cheapest used cars in Europe. Why would Mr + Mrs Bloggs spend £400 replacing the clutch on their Mk1 Focus when they can buy a Mk2 Focus for £750?

2. The UK went diesel mad in the 90s and lots were scrapped after DMF/DPF failure

3. The UK climate combined with the salted roads is not conducive to cars lasting long. I was in Germany recently and it was surprising to see plenty of totally rust free W210 Mercedes in daily use. 

4. Age identifying registration plates. The UK is one of very few countries where the age of a car is on the reg. If someone is trying to "keep up with the Jones" then they don't want it obvious to all that their car is four years older than the one next door. My 2002 car looks identical to a 2007 one, without the age identifying plate nobody would know its age. It's the first thing people tend to say when asked what they drive "a 63 plate Focus" or whatever.  Ask someone in Europe what they drive and they'll say "a Focus", in the UK it sometimes appears the date of first reg is often more important than the actual car. 

5. People don't like spending money on servicing here. Instead of buying new tyres they'll buy cheap Chinese jobs or part worns. Instead of buying decent oil they'll stick Tesco Value sludge in "5 litres for £15. Rip off! I only paid £250 for the whole car!"

Combine all that and it's no surprise that you don't see many older cars about. 

[davehedgehog31]

My old, now @Jim Bell 205 with a 208 GTi Peugeot Sport edition. Both fun in very, very different ways.

[Austat]

Captured this when I was on holiday in France:

(Also my 2000th post on this forum)

[DVee8]

MrsV8's Mini Cooper and my Daimler 250V8

 

 

[Pete-M]

First time I saw one of those 4x4 Mini things I was in my XJR. The mini pulled up next to me and I remember looking up at it. 

[maxxo]

3 hours ago, Austat said:

Captured this when I was on holiday in France:

(Also my 2000th post on this forum)

I absolutely love the new panda, it's exactly how cars should be

in fact both panda's old and new are utterly brilliant