Rocket88 Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 I'll do a full write up in the morning about an epic three way chod manoeuvring epic tomorrow.............but just a brief question for the collective, The Renault 11 of many 'shiters, which is now mine, has a peculiar issue. On certain road surfaces, at certain speeds [usually between 35 to 50 mph] there is a howling noise akin to a wheel bearing in it's death throes.....no play in any bearing, no heat, and taking bends [i.e putting it under more load] actually shuts the noise up.....and it seems to be coming from the back. Worse on overrun, and down hills.....and is intermittent ! The only possible thing I can think of is ancient back tyres, which have gone weird, and are reacting to load and road surface changes..............anyone else any bright ideas ? mk2_craig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaseracer Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 You're probably on the money with the rubber theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesacosa Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 Rear tyres could definitely be the issue. But I also had a wheel bearing go really noisy on my Saab which did not have any noticeable play but was found by the MOT man as it feelt slightly rough to turn . I used this technique to identify the noisy rear bearing on my Favorit too Congratulations on the R11. looks utterly fab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket88 Posted September 10, 2020 Author Share Posted September 10, 2020 If the noise was constantly there, I’d agree with the wheel bearings theory, but the fact that it comes and goes is bizarre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilA Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 Sure the rear torsion beam isn't sloppy? Check for witness marks of tires making contact with the rear arches, inner arches etc. Rocket88 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket88 Posted September 11, 2020 Author Share Posted September 11, 2020 3 hours ago, PhilA said: Sure the rear torsion beam isn't sloppy? Check for witness marks of tires making contact with the rear arches, inner arches etc. Just thought of that...which would make sense....I will investigate.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket88 Posted September 11, 2020 Author Share Posted September 11, 2020 1 hour ago, colc said: Just thought of that...which would make sense....I will investigate.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket88 Posted September 11, 2020 Author Share Posted September 11, 2020 I think that the "bushes in rear beam " theory is what's causing the problem..........it's causing the toe angle of the axle to change, which is causing the rear tyres to scrub, and that's the howling noise........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacquer Peel Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 Are Renault torsion bar rear axles better than PSA ones? There doesn't seem to be an aftermarket demand for refurbished ones like PSA ones and I haven't seen ropey MK1 Kangoos with weird camber like an old Berlingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilA Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 They're generally ok, but there's some rubber components that, when deteriorated, allow a few extra degrees of movement. Original spec was for skinny wheels and as time went on the wheels got wider. There's minimal space in the rear arches on the 11 platform to maximize space in the boot so it doesn't take much with wider tires for them to touch under certain dynamic load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volksy Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Lacquer Peel said: Are Renault torsion bar rear axles better than PSA ones? There doesn't seem to be an aftermarket demand for refurbished ones like PSA ones and I haven't seen ropey MK1 Kangoos with weird camber like an old Berlingo. I don't believe they are a separate sub frame assembly like Peugeot. The mounts are part of the structure of the car, and when rotten can pretty much right the car off. My '78 Mk1 Renault 5 was scrapped when the drivers side outer mount parted company with the body. I knew of a mint 78 16TX which went the same way. Lacquer Peel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlsoMike Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 Its obviously haunted and you should get rid of it immediately. Rocket88 and bangernomics 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacquer Peel Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 31 minutes ago, Volksy said: I don't believe they are a separate sub frame assembly like Peugeot. The mounts are part of the structure of the car, and when rotten can pretty much right the car off. My '78 Mk1 Renault 5 was scrapped when the drivers side outer mount parted company with the body. I knew of a mint 78 16TX which went the same way. I think the R11's rear beam is more similar to the PSA style than the older cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuvvum Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 Yes, 5s and 16s were torsion bar and trailing arms with a different wheelbase each side of the car - the 11's setup is a lot more "normal". Lacquer Peel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilA Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 Best get it fixed, today being 11 / 9 day. It's a very Renault day. (As expressed in Renaults) I went eyeball mine and the r/h side there's a slight witness mark at the front inner edge of the inner wheelarch (with the rear seat base on the other side of the metal). I would say make sure nobody's made any dents in the rear inner arches. They really didn't leave much room- Renault were going for LOOK HOW MUCH CABIN SPACE THERE IS with the 9 and 11, it was right up in that era where that was a major selling point. --Phil wuvvum, somewhatfoolish, BertiePuntoCabrio and 4 others 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuvvum Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 11 minutes ago, PhilA said: Best get it fixed, today being 11 / 9 day. It's a very Renault day. (As expressed in Renaults) Also relevant in the context of the alleged link between Renault 20s and Islamic terrorism. sporty-shite, Lacquer Peel, spartacus and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownnova Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 Especially as 9 and 11 add up to 20... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hairnet Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 what other euro renaults did usa see sense to import? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilA Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 33 minutes ago, hairnet said: what other euro renaults did usa see sense to import? 21, 5 most recently but those were made here; 70's and before they imported the Dauphine and the 4, I believe. hairnet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacquer Peel Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 1 hour ago, hairnet said: what other euro renaults did usa see sense to import? mk2_craig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobT Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 12 hours ago, colc said: I think that the "bushes in rear beam " theory is what's causing the problem..........it's causing the toe angle of the axle to change, which is causing the rear tyres to scrub, and that's the howling noise........... Ah, so that's what it is. I had the noises intermittently when I owned it. Had all manner of ideas about the possible cause, until one day I got really annoyed with it and drove it like the clappers for 30 odd miles. They stopped after that so gave it no more thought... Rocket88 and somewhatfoolish 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinaTom Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 Don’t forget the Eagle Premier Wasn’t that basically a 25 saloon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilA Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 4 hours ago, RobT said: Ah, so that's what it is. I had the noises intermittently when I owned it. Had all manner of ideas about the possible cause, until one day I got really annoyed with it and drove it like the clappers for 30 odd miles. They stopped after that so gave it no more thought... Easy fix, find a R11 turbo and put the rear anti roll bar across the rear swing arms. Holds them in place better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket88 Posted September 12, 2020 Author Share Posted September 12, 2020 6 hours ago, PhilA said: Easy fix, find a R11 turbo and put the rear anti roll bar across the rear swing arms. Holds them in place better. "Find a Renault 11 turbo"........is that next to the "Unicorns and hen's teeth" shelf ?? PhilA and brownnova 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket88 Posted September 12, 2020 Author Share Posted September 12, 2020 On 9/11/2020 at 6:46 AM, PhilA said: Sure the rear torsion beam isn't sloppy? Check for witness marks of tires making contact with the rear arches, inner arches etc. There's no rubbing....I think the noise is being generated by the change in geometry in the rear beam due to worn bushes causing the tyres to howl occasionally...............might be due simply to tracking [here's hoping !] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilA Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 2 hours ago, colc said: "Find a Renault 11 turbo"........is that next to the "Unicorns and hen's teeth" shelf ?? T'was a rather tongue in cheek comment, yes Rocket88 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeR Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 change the tyre pressures and see if a change occurs in the speed of happening or cause last time I heard a noise like that it , was the centre bearing on a 240 propshaft have you a bearing supported prop shaft ? SiC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somewhatfoolish Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 1 hour ago, MikeR said: change the tyre pressures and see if a change occurs in the speed of happening or cause last time I heard a noise like that it , was the centre bearing on a 240 propshaft have you a bearing supported prop shaft ? On an R11? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorfolkNWeigh Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 21 hours ago, ChinaTom said: Don’t forget the Eagle Premier Wasn’t that basically a 25 saloon? Yes and no. They look like 25 saloons, but we’re apparently styled by Guigario , keeping 25 doors and have the US built Renault Medallion ( 21) platforms fitted with the PRV V6. The first 172 were badged as Renault Premiers, then Renault sold AMC to Chrysler who created the Eagle brand to compete with Merkur. They even sold some Premiers as Dodge Monacos. Chrysler continued to sell Medallions as Renaults, just to confuse things further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinaTom Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 I know there are still quite a few smoking around Hamilton Ontario. Built just up the road from there. From certain angles they really do have the R25 look. Doors do that I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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