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Renault 11 rear beam issues ?


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I'll do a full write up in the morning about an epic three way chod manoeuvring epic tomorrow.............but just a brief question for the collective,

 

The Renault 11 of many 'shiters, which is now mine, has a peculiar issue. On certain road surfaces, at certain speeds [usually between 35 to 50 mph] there is a howling noise akin to a wheel bearing in it's death throes.....no play in any bearing, no heat, and taking bends [i.e putting it under more load] actually shuts the noise up.....and it seems to be coming from the back. Worse on overrun, and down hills.....and is intermittent !

The only possible thing I can think of is ancient back tyres, which have gone weird, and are reacting to load and road surface changes..............anyone else any bright ideas ?

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Rear tyres could definitely be the issue. But I also had a wheel bearing go really noisy on my Saab which did not have any noticeable play but was found by the MOT man as it feelt slightly rough to turn . I used this technique to identify the noisy rear bearing on my Favorit too

Congratulations on the R11. looks utterly fab

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3 hours ago, PhilA said:

Sure the rear torsion beam isn't sloppy? Check for witness marks of tires making contact with the rear arches, inner arches etc.

Just thought of that...which would make sense....I will investigate..................

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  • colc changed the title to Renault 11 moaning............

I think that the "bushes in rear beam " theory is what's causing the problem..........it's causing the toe angle of the axle to change, which is causing the rear tyres to scrub, and that's the howling noise...........

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They're generally ok, but there's some rubber components that, when deteriorated, allow a few extra degrees of movement. Original spec was for skinny wheels and as time went on the wheels got wider. There's minimal space in the rear arches on the 11 platform to maximize space in the boot so it doesn't take much with wider tires for them to touch under certain dynamic load.

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2 minutes ago, Lacquer Peel said:

Are Renault torsion bar rear axles better than PSA ones? There doesn't seem to be an aftermarket demand for refurbished ones like PSA ones and I haven't seen ropey MK1 Kangoos with weird camber like an old Berlingo. 

I don't believe they are a separate sub frame assembly like Peugeot. The mounts are part of the structure of the car, and when rotten can pretty much right the car off. 

 

My '78 Mk1 Renault 5 was scrapped when the drivers side outer mount parted company with the body. I knew of a mint 78 16TX which went the same way. 

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31 minutes ago, Volksy said:

 

I don't believe they are a separate sub frame assembly like Peugeot. The mounts are part of the structure of the car, and when rotten can pretty much right the car off. 

 

My '78 Mk1 Renault 5 was scrapped when the drivers side outer mount parted company with the body. I knew of a mint 78 16TX which went the same way. 

I think the R11's rear beam is more similar to the PSA style than the older cars. 

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Best get it fixed, today being 11 / 9 day. It's a very Renault day.

r11.jpg.1dc4488f08aefeffab649d29645f6455.jpgr9.jpg.4a3c2313278908e1e935a2d7040e82e6.jpgr20.jpg.2a4df0de34652fe131468b322483664a.jpgr20.jpg.2a4df0de34652fe131468b322483664a.jpg

(As expressed in Renaults)

I went eyeball mine and the r/h side there's a slight witness mark at the front inner edge of the inner wheelarch (with the rear seat base on the other side of the metal).

I would say make sure nobody's made any dents in the rear inner arches. They really didn't leave much room- Renault were going for LOOK HOW MUCH CABIN SPACE THERE IS with the 9 and 11, it was right up in that era where that was a major selling point.

 

--Phil

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12 hours ago, colc said:

I think that the "bushes in rear beam " theory is what's causing the problem..........it's causing the toe angle of the axle to change, which is causing the rear tyres to scrub, and that's the howling noise...........

Ah, so that's what it is.  I had the noises intermittently when I owned it.  Had all manner of ideas about the possible cause, until one day I got really annoyed with it and drove it like the clappers for 30 odd miles.  They stopped after that so gave it no more thought...

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4 hours ago, RobT said:

Ah, so that's what it is.  I had the noises intermittently when I owned it.  Had all manner of ideas about the possible cause, until one day I got really annoyed with it and drove it like the clappers for 30 odd miles.  They stopped after that so gave it no more thought...

Easy fix, find a R11 turbo and put the rear anti roll bar across the rear swing arms. Holds them in place better.

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On 9/11/2020 at 6:46 AM, PhilA said:

Sure the rear torsion beam isn't sloppy? Check for witness marks of tires making contact with the rear arches, inner arches etc.

There's no rubbing....I think the noise is being generated by the change in geometry in the rear beam due to worn bushes causing the tyres to howl occasionally...............might be due simply to tracking [here's hoping !]

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1 hour ago, MikeR said:

change the tyre pressures and see if a change occurs in the speed of happening or cause

last time I heard a noise like that it , was the centre bearing on a 240 propshaft

have you a bearing supported prop shaft ?

On an R11?

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21 hours ago, ChinaTom said:

Don’t forget the Eagle Premier Wasn’t that basically a 25 saloon?

Yes and no.

They look like 25 saloons, but we’re apparently styled by Guigario , keeping 25 doors 623499CB-ADDE-4F3E-8584-C85EACB48262.jpeg.dcdcff5d498b101424c31176661c053a.jpegand have the US built Renault Medallion ( 21) platforms fitted with the PRV V6. The first 172 were badged as Renault Premiers, then Renault sold AMC to Chrysler who created the Eagle brand to compete with Merkur. They even sold some Premiers as Dodge Monacos. Chrysler continued to sell Medallions as Renaults, just to confuse things further.DAEECC11-752A-4A15-967B-0FE81B5B610B.thumb.jpeg.02783d9a7a28eb850c4b1655813ff98b.jpeg

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