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If only you’d worked harder at school...


sierraman

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It all depends on how much you value these things, £350 a month is a lot to me to spend on something I don’t care all that much about. 

On the other hand a mate of mine spends £400 a month on a Jag, he doesn’t smoke or drink, he’s interested in new cars. 

By the same paradox though £350 a month is a lot to spend per month if you’ve all the other usual bills and you are pulling £20k. 

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6 minutes ago, sierraman said:

 

By the same paradox though £350 a month is a lot to spend per month if you’ve all the other usual bills and you are pulling £20k. 

This is very true! I’m pretty well paid when I’m doing contract IT shizz but spending months working for £9.69/h made me very aware of my outgoings and justification for them. 

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10 minutes ago, sierraman said:

It all depends on how much you value these things, £350 a month is a lot to me to spend on something I don’t care all that much about. 

On the other hand a mate of mine spends £400 a month on a Jag, he doesn’t smoke or drink, he’s interested in new cars. 

By the same paradox though £350 a month is a lot to spend per month if you’ve all the other usual bills and you are pulling £20k. 

Then it's very unlikely you're a target market for such a deal. Yes £350 pcm on a car is a lot if you are bringing in only £20k. But then again, it's not the target market. Yes some people may be doing that but it's not going to be the majority. More likely to be buzzing around in a £200pcm Fiesta. 

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It all depends on how much you value these things, £350 a month is a lot to me to spend on something I don’t care all that much about. 
On the other hand a mate of mine spends £400 a month on a Jag, he doesn’t smoke or drink, he’s interested in new cars. 
By the same paradox though £350 a month is a lot to spend per month if you’ve all the other usual bills and you are pulling £20k. 
Money is always relative. If you're on the bread line £350 a month is an awful lot of money whatever it's spent on, whereas if you're a higher earner £350 a month can be spunked away without any material effect on your life.
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Average UK salary is £30k. Take home thats £2k pcm. Say someone is bringing that in and their partner is bring in £12k pcm. That's £2975 after tax brought into the household. 

Say £900 rent/mortgage and £700 bills, you get £1600. £350 (high spec A4) and a £200 (Fiesta) lease you're at £2100. Leaving £875 disposable income per month left. 

That's going to be the vast majority of these lease deal customers. Why I know this? Well as Cheggers have said, the default rate on car finance is low. So there had to be plenty of people making the numbers perfectly fine. 

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9 minutes ago, SiC said:

Average UK salary is £30k. Take home thats £2k pcm. Say someone is bringing that in and their partner is bring in £12k pcm. That's £2975 after tax brought into the household. 

Say £900 rent/mortgage and £700 bills, you get £1600. £350 (high spec A4) and a £200 (Fiesta) lease you're at £2100. Leaving £875 disposable income per month left. 

That's going to be the vast majority of these lease deal customers. Why I know this? Well as Cheggers have said, the default rate on car finance is low. So there had to be plenty of people making the numbers perfectly fine. 

Where does a pension and savings come in to your figures?

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Where does a pension and savings come in to your figures?

Who said that people are making such sensible long term decisions?

 

Even so, you could take out £250 pcm savings and £250 pcm pension. Still would be £375 disposable left.

 

Also only rough guide numbers to show that its entirely possible to have such cars without stretching oneselves. Despite many on here thinking that people must do if they have fancy new lease cars.

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We have a car and bike on a lease and pcp, people are always quick to judge and some of the totally blinkered views from some who have never had an overdraft never mind a credit card make me laugh, we can afford it, its cheaper and less stressful than buying a succesion of old bangers, its fixed cost motoring, as long as we budget for servicing and tyres there are no other costs, if either shits itself we can hand it back and say 'another one please'

I'm happy to drive an older car and stomach the costs when it goes wrong, the missus wouldn't, for people to judge and comment because they either can't afford it/can't get credit or have no idea is laughable :D I signed up for a lease on a Kia XCeed on 20th March, then lockdown happened and I cancelled it, I have to say I'm glad I did as there would have been a car sat on the drive costing me over £250/month going nowhere.

Our kids have grown up and left home thankfully and neither have got pregnant yet :D

 

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2 hours ago, SiC said:

Want an appliance that would keep most non car happy? Well for £190pcm, have a Fiesta! Just picked it out the list too, so probably better deals too. 

https://www.leaseloco.com/car-leasing/ford/fiesta/10-ecoboost-95-active-edition-5dr/15283/2-24-8000-9-0

Ford Fiestas aren't exactly small now either. Not far off a Focus mk1 iirc?

Why does a 1-litre Fiesta need 205/45x17 tyres?  :?

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And for full disclosure, I've done the whole pcp/lease /car loan thing and actually still do!!! 

I had a few pcp cars through ford when I worked there, with the discount it was pretty much all good but I had my head turned by an E36 cabrio and still own it now, albeit not in a fully working format!!! 

Current "family" car is a 64 plate latest shape c220cdi amg line with lots of toys, love it and it's fantastic in pretty much every way. Put £7k of my money in and loaned £10k, only extra costs are it needs to be serviced as per warranty but its £30 a year to tax and does 50mpg pretty much all the time. 

Son had a full on lease car for uni, merc a class 180cdi. He loved it but there are hidden costs, £1200 to 1500 down iirc, service at merc once a year and the 10k mileage got blown away but over 3yrs and an extra £1000, but that was for 15000 extra miles which I thought was good. To add 5k miles in the first place put it nearer £300 a month so over 40 months that's a huge extra. 

That did 55-60 mpg no matter what and we always knew it would get him there. It was effectively directly through merc and there was a scuff on one alloy that they let us off with, otherwise the body was mint but if it hadn't been that would have been big fines. 

You have to be brave as they ALWAYS try to sell you gap insurance, that's another £6-900 over most polices, very hard to refuse but you can,they just make it really awkward to say no. 

He finished uni and got a job that really needed a train as the traffic on the M4 now is almost unbearable most days (pre covid). 

It's one of those things that you need to look at almost in the long term, something that you know is covered, like people who pay for boiler insurance, extended warranties on their tv's, fixed rate mortgages over 10 years, etc etc, ok they may never claim but its piece of mind, they know things are covered and they know if their car breaks or will be fixed, ASAP and they'll get a replacement FOC. 

My Toyota has been bullet proof in 4 years, apart froma starter motor and brakes I've done nothing to it other than regular maintenance in that time and put 50k on it but in the last month or so, its sprung a leak from a very awkward place and needs a deeper fix than I've done. I'll have to look at it sooner rather than later as I'm lucky enough to have alternate transport but if that was my only car and I lost work through it, where would I be? If that was a leased avensis, I'd just ring them up and they'd send out another. If I didn't know about cars, I could just keep driving it until OMGHGF and then find its scrap and start all over again. 

Horses for courses. 

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1 hour ago, Matty said:

si, its  not inverse snobbery. Some people don't have the money to place 350 a month on hp or pcp. I don't. I like old cars. They also suit my budget. Differant strokes pal

Oh I totally get that some people can't afford it.

However these threads always end up with people reckoning that those paying 350pcm for a new are insane and reckless when you can get a knackered Mondeo for just twice that. Then there is also the questioning that everyone who has a car lease and a new car on the drive can't really said lease. 

Etcetera

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9 hours ago, vaughant said:

And for full disclosure, I've done the whole pcp/lease /car loan thing and actually still do!!! 

I had a few pcp cars through ford when I worked there, with the discount it was pretty much all good but I had my head turned by an E36 cabrio and still own it now, albeit not in a fully working format!!! 

Current "family" car is a 64 plate latest shape c220cdi amg line with lots of toys, love it and it's fantastic in pretty much every way. Put £7k of my money in and loaned £10k, only extra costs are it needs to be serviced as per warranty but its £30 a year to tax and does 50mpg pretty much all the time. 

Son had a full on lease car for uni, merc a class 180cdi. He loved it but there are hidden costs, £1200 to 1500 down iirc, service at merc once a year and the 10k mileage got blown away but over 3yrs and an extra £1000, but that was for 15000 extra miles which I thought was good. To add 5k miles in the first place put it nearer £300 a month so over 40 months that's a huge extra. 

That did 55-60 mpg no matter what and we always knew it would get him there. It was effectively directly through merc and there was a scuff on one alloy that they let us off with, otherwise the body was mint but if it hadn't been that would have been big fines. 

You have to be brave as they ALWAYS try to sell you gap insurance, that's another £6-900 over most polices, very hard to refuse but you can,they just make it really awkward to say no. 

He finished uni and got a job that really needed a train as the traffic on the M4 now is almost unbearable most days (pre covid). 

It's one of those things that you need to look at almost in the long term, something that you know is covered, like people who pay for boiler insurance, extended warranties on their tv's, fixed rate mortgages over 10 years, etc etc, ok they may never claim but its piece of mind, they know things are covered and they know if their car breaks or will be fixed, ASAP and they'll get a replacement FOC. 

My Toyota has been bullet proof in 4 years, apart froma starter motor and brakes I've done nothing to it other than regular maintenance in that time and put 50k on it but in the last month or so, its sprung a leak from a very awkward place and needs a deeper fix than I've done. I'll have to look at it sooner rather than later as I'm lucky enough to have alternate transport but if that was my only car and I lost work through it, where would I be? If that was a leased avensis, I'd just ring them up and they'd send out another. If I didn't know about cars, I could just keep driving it until OMGHGF and then find its scrap and start all over again. 

Horses for courses. 

I "bought" a supposedly reliable Skoda on PCP when I was working for the A.A, as I needed something bomb proof to make sure I got to work on time. During the first year it broke down twice.........meaning I had to call the A.A..........oh, how I laughed..........still got the hateful pile of shite now, negotiating to get out of it early.....it's going to cost me just over £2k to do so. Never again.

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8 hours ago, SiC said:

Oh I totally get that some people can't afford it.

However these threads always end up with people reckoning that those paying 350pcm for a new are insane and reckless when you can get a knackered Mondeo for just twice that. Then there is also the questioning that everyone who has a car lease and a new car on the drive can't really said lease. 

Etcetera

Yes it's a strange one in many ways that the lease is often far better value than turning up at a dealer actually wanting to buy something. 

We chose the latter with our merc as a new one in my deemed budget of £350 a month was restricted to 8k a year, £3k down when we've done 20k easily (covid aside would have been way more, we do like to go out for drives etc) so would end up paying nearer £5/600 pcm when deposit etc is taken into account. 

My mortgage is that so it gets hard to justify. 

I've got I think 18 months left on the loan, 2 yrs max, so it will at least be mine and probably still a £10k car then which will leave me either with a choice to put it in for a newer one and carry on or just keep on top of the maintenance and run it for a further 5 yrs or so, they seem capable of 150k without too much fuss, some taxis are buzzing about with 350k on their original bits. 

But again though, I know the bills will get bigger as it gets older, bushes will start to wear, body will get a bit scruffier, those lovely polished amg wheels appear magnetised to curbs already and really need a refurb at 45k plus merc will facelift it and it will then be worthless plus we'll want the new one. 

To be fair to my Mrs she's been tolerant over the years when it comes to driving shittish cars and this was a bit of a treat for her to feel confident in again after a few crashes left her a nervous driver. These things pretty much drive themselves!!! 

I of course, still drive chod and I'm not sure that will ever change much!!! 

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1 minute ago, colc said:

I "bought" a supposedly reliable Skoda on PCP when I was working for the A.A, as I needed something bomb proof to make sure I got to work on time. During the first year it broke down twice.........meaning I had to call the A.A..........oh, how I laughed..........still got the hateful pile of shite now, negotiating to get out of it early.....it's going to cost me just over £2k to do so. Never again.

I will say apart from washer pipes his merc was faultless, never a hint of trouble to be fair. Only put a set of tyres and pads on it in that time. Mainly motorway miles but it had a good stuffing most of the time. 

Shame skoda have lost their way as well, they seemed the most robust of the bunch for many years. 

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Never understood the PCP etc bashing on here, it's all very Pistonheads. The OP is always very close to it. 

Wonder how many people on here bashing finance smoke or have a bad diet. One of my cars is £300 per month, for the price of not smoking and a can of monster a day pays for a 300bhp car with 4 years warranty, 2 years free servicing and MOT's. Yet it would generally be seen unacceptable if I judged someone for smoking or drinking Monster?

Life is about doing what you want, and experiencing what you want to experience isn't it? People sweating the small stuff too much - let your neighbours or colleagues get on with it. 

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I don't think there is anything wrong with PCPs, when people know what they are getting and have correctly budgeted for it, it is increasingly the preferred method for 'owning' a car, it is little different to a mobile phone contract, or, going back in time renting a television set. The only slight caveat is that occasionally people sign up to really rather expensive monthly repayments that they can barely afford at the best of times (let alone when furloughed or something has reduced their income) and also don't account for insurance, gap insurance and the cost of consumables like tyres (hence the preponderance of new motahs shod with Goodride Longtimes or similar). 

My issue with the Honest John ethos is this constant chopping and changing of slightly old cars for brand new cars presented as an economic choice. As it happens a correctly budgeted PCP would make way more economic sense than constantly buying a new plate car, suffering the brunt of the depreciation (the main loss being once you've driven it off the forecourt) and then going back and doing it all again two or three years later.  New cars are a fantastic waste of money unless you can write off the loss as a business expense/tax deduction which is why I've never being tempted, the short term kudos of the new car feel and new reg plate were never a consideration for me. Paying a five figure sum out to buy a car that saves me 100 quid a year on road tax is also a false economy.

 

 

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My Dad hasn't owned a second hand car since the 1960s. 

Either he's had company cars, or he bought new in cash from a local dealer, with no discount and a pisspoor trade in value. 

He got made redundant in the early 80s and had his company cortina taken off him, and within a week had bought a brand new base dangley mirror beige 1.6 Seirra Estate, with half his redundancy, because you need a car to get to interviews. It stayed in the family for more than ten years when it was pretty much scrap with more than 150k on.the clock.

 

Since he retired in 2001, he's bought 3 focus estates from his local dealer and replaced them at 8 or 9 years old with about 100k on the clock, giving the dealer at least £55k (plus always serviced by main dealer at inflated prices) 

I'm thinking the PCP lease option every 3 years would have been no more expensive, for him. 

 

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52 minutes ago, Liggle said:

Never understood the PCP etc bashing on here, it's all very Pistonheads. The OP is always very close to it. 

Wonder how many people on here bashing finance smoke or have a bad diet. One of my cars is £300 per month, for the price of not smoking and a can of monster a day pays for a 300bhp car with 4 years warranty, 2 years free servicing and MOT's. Yet it would generally be seen unacceptable if I judged someone for smoking or drinking Monster?

Life is about doing what you want, and experiencing what you want to experience isn't it? People sweating the small stuff too much - let your neighbours or colleagues get on with it. 

Yes put that way, it's a great way of looking at it and very true. We went out for our 1st post covid meal on Thursday becausewelsh and although it was lovely and we had whatever we wanted, it was £180 for the 3 of us!!! OK normally I'd like that to have been under £100/120 but 2 of those a month gets you in the car and expenses. I took a bit of a pay cut during lockdown and had the extra whammy of paying for accommodation as the job was elsewhere but I couldn't spend anything!!! 

Car sounds awesome as well, I'm assuming golf r or the like? 

I've certainly thought about it from a van point of view but I still think I maybe better getting a 3 Yr old berlingo and buying it over time as their pretty robust and easy to maintain. 

Have noticed lease prices creeping up a bit lately, used to be loads for under £100 a month for like a c1 but they all seem nearer £150 now? 

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Lots of (most?) people are prepared to pay a more money to have certainty in their outgoings (paying for peace of mind etc). Its the same reason the majority of people fix their mortgage at a premium when tracker rate mortgages have been consistently cheaper for the last 15 years. People will happily pay for someone else to carry the risk.

We have one pcp and one not so I'm on both sides of this

 

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Horses for courses and all that. Lots of people on here with new cars - if that's what you want go and get it. Life is short.

I have just done 1300 miles in two weeks in a 13 year old vectra - I like the fact you dont have to worry about shit being trodden into the carpets, scratches being picked up, oil leaks, rust - you expect all this on a car of this vintage.

My parents fell foul of the high interest rates 30 years ago which made me very wary. I would sooner drive a heap and have savings than a new car but be on the bones of my arse.

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