If only you’d worked harder at school...

[sierraman]

1 minute ago, Cheggers said:

The modern way of "owning" a car will never be popular here because we're "car people" who take an interest in what we drive rather than treating it as just another item of white goods and are reasonably proficient at keeping it running (says the man who just bought a Maserati).

Look at it like this; if, say, a fridge or washing machine cost £15k+ what would you do?...risk buying an old second hand one that looked scruffy compared to the rest of the kitchen, thus incurring the wrath of your other half or would you make a monthly repayment on a new one which looked good and will/ should be dependable?

For the vast majority of people a car is a car, in the same way a fridge is a fridge to you or I.

I don’t know, we’ve recently took someone on, had a fairly well paid job that turned to shut overnight for various reasons, the PCP had to go back, they’d got £2k equity in the car anyhow they went out and bought a car outright with it. She said it’s only now she couldn’t believe she was spending £400 a month on a car. 

Its horses for courses though. If we were like Spain where people buy a car and never sell it until it’s shagged we’d be fucked. 

[Shite Ron]

48 minutes ago, sierraman said:

I don’t know, I’ve a 10 year old Mondeo only average for the age wear and tear. Of course something like an ABS module or whatever could go bang but it can be repaired. On cars years ago once the body went that was that. Most Cortinas celebrated their 10th birthday in the scrapyard due to rampant corrosion or engines needing a rebore at 100,000. Of course you could swap an engine in an afternoon on one but that’s some consolation in February. 

I suppose I have become an inverse snob with cars, At 17 I had a 5 year old Cortina which at the time I didn’t think of as new but loved it, I bought a Cavalier which was newer but wasn’t any match for the Cortina, then bought a Sierra which also did not impress me so drove Cortina’s for the next 20  years, I bought a house at 21 so had a mortgage to pay and not a well paid job. I loved cars and didn’t have much money so Cortina’s were perfect for me. I agree on the rust and quickly had to learn to weld and became quite good. Mechanically though I never did much more than servicing as the pinto was exceptionally reliable. I did have a few problems with my first V6 when I was 19 but that was probably due to the lack of maintenance from the previous owner combined with my enthusiastic driving thinking I was in the Sweeney or Professionals. I was very unhappy getting a Mondeo as a work car when I could no longer avoid a job with a company car. I still avoided paying silly money for a car by opting out and buying my own 2 year old car and servicing it myself. My boss told me I could not use a Cortina and had to have something nearly new. The only nice thing about a new car is the anonymity. Unfortunately now a Cortina stands out a mile which is something I don’t like, in my Mondeo I was invisible which was great, driving the car though was not exciting, not bad but not good, just functional as with most modern cars. Someone once told me that if you get out of your car and walk away without looking back you should sell it, I think this is very true. Above everything your car should impress you, other people’s opinion are not important.

[Cheggers]

Above everything your car should impress you, other people’s opinion are not important.

Exactly, so should we be slating other people's choice of a 20 plate on finance?

[CreepingJesus]

Cos it's adding to the unsustainable, unrepayable mountain of personal debt?

[sierraman]

11 minutes ago, Shite Ron said:

I suppose I have become an inverse snob with cars, At 17 I had a 5 year old Cortina which at the time I didn’t think of as new but loved it, I bought a Cavalier which was newer but wasn’t any match for the Cortina, then bought a Sierra which also did not impress me so drove Cortina’s for the next 20  years, I bought a house at 21 so had a mortgage to pay and not a well paid job. I loved cars and didn’t have much money so Cortina’s were perfect for me. I agree on the rust and quickly had to learn to weld and became quite good. Mechanically though I never did much more than servicing as the pinto was exceptionally reliable. I did have a few problems with my first V6 when I was 19 but that was probably due to the lack of maintenance from the previous owner combined with my enthusiastic driving thinking I was in the Sweeney or Professionals. I was very unhappy getting a Mondeo as a work car when I could no longer avoid a job with a company car. I still avoided paying silly money for a car by opting out and buying my own 2 year old car and servicing it myself. My boss told me I could not use a Cortina and had to have something nearly new. The only nice thing about a new car is the anonymity. Unfortunately now a Cortina stands out a mile which is something I don’t like, in my Mondeo I was invisible which was great, driving the car though was not exciting, not bad but not good, just functional as with most modern cars. Someone once told me that if you get out of your car and walk away without looking back you should sell it, I think this is very true. Above everything your car should impress you, other people’s opinion are not important.

One thing was though the Cortina was never banned from most Banger Racing events...

[sierraman]

Just now, CreepingJesus said:

Cos it's adding to the unsustainable, unrepayable mountain of personal debt?

Fuck ‘em. You make your choices. 

[strangeangel]

12 minutes ago, Shite Ron said:

 Above everything your car should impress you, other people’s opinion are not important.

 

 

Agree 100% Ron, even if occasionally you might want to beat it to death with a nearby shrub.

 

[Shite Ron]

3 minutes ago, Cheggers said:

 

 

Exactly, so should we be slating other people's choice of a 20 plate on finance?

 

You have a point, unfortunately years of abuse from people who are obsessed by having new cars does have an affect. I thought I had learnt to rise above it but maybe not. We all have different opinions and this is not a bad thing but for me I do not want a car I cannot afford and hate wasting money.

[sierraman]

Ultimately a thread like this is down to debate, nobody should go away from it brainwashed. Debates a healthy habit, it gives a learning for both sides.

[Tadhg Tiogar]

1 hour ago, Tamworthbay said:

.... When my Capri was in for its MoT this week the old guy who runs the place brought the young lad over to look at it. He was gobsmacked how much space there was and his first questions was ‘where are all the cables?’ I think he thought we were lying when we said you could an engine with less than half a dozen wires.

The tester at Kwik-Fit who deals with my CX (and before that the 635) makes a point of explaining my car to the younger members of staff who generally don't see weird oul cars.

[St.Jude]

10 hours ago, Cheggers said:

The modern way of "owning" a car will never be popular here because we're "car people" who take an interest in what we drive rather than treating it as just another item of white goods and are reasonably proficient at keeping it running (says the man who just bought a Maserati).

Look at it like this; if, say, a fridge or washing machine cost £15k+ what would you do?...risk buying an old second hand one that looked scruffy compared to the rest of the kitchen, thus incurring the wrath of your other half or would you make a monthly repayment on a new one which looked good and will/ should be dependable?

For the vast majority of people a car is a car, in the same way a fridge is a fridge to you or I.

And the cars get treated that way too.

Friend of mine, bless him, had a C1 on finance. He was getting rid of it as his PCP was up and I asked him had he got it serviced. He just looked at me and reckoned he didn't need to get it serviced. Genuinely don't know how that finished up but he's on another PCP but with a Renault.

I've heard stories of the car supermarket in Wednesbury, alot of them accusing them of clocking the cars. They're probably not doing it, it's the owners of these vehicles who ask for a silly low mileage allowance, go over it by moon miles, then pay for "re-calibration" to bring the miles under whats allowed without the penalty. Meaning these nearly new cars, 4 years old, will have been ragged to hell, starved of any servicing, and likely won't make it to 10 years anyway.

So for us car people, I reckon the future stock of good shiters will be fairly low. That worries me a little.

That said, the sister had her Toyota on PCP, bought it out right, took it for an MOT and the bushes were cream crackered apparently according to the Halfrauds MOT man. It's a 4 year old car with 25,000 miles. I told her to bring it to Toyota as there's no way bushes should be gone at that age and mileage, pointing at my Peugeot 107 that's 10 years old with it's original bushes.

[Cheggers]

You have a point, unfortunately years of abuse from people who are obsessed by having new cars does have an affect. I thought I had learnt to rise above it but maybe not. We all have different opinions and this is not a bad thing but for me I do not want a car I cannot afford and hate wasting money.

This whole "people taking on monthly payments that can't afford" is one of Autoshite's favourite inverse-snobbery tropes which gets trotted out on a regular basis.

If you look at the figures nationally, the default rate on car finance is actually pretty low compared to other personal finance. Most people can afford the payments which is why they take them on and are accepted by the finance company.

It's not my way of buying cars, same as for most folks on here, but who are we to criticise other people's choices? - I'm sure if you asked 99% of the population who was the weird one they'd choose the Invacar owner over the guy/girl with the leased 1 Series.

[chadders]

10 hours ago, Cheggers said:

 

 

Exactly, so should we be slating other people's choice of a 20 plate on finance?

 

You could draw a parallel with spending far more on restoring a car than it'll ever be worth. Some people would spend the money on booze, expensive holidays  etc. but it's your money, your choice.

 

[New POD]

4 minutes ago, chadders said:

You could draw a parallel with spending far more on restoring a car than it'll ever be worth. Some people would spend the money on booze, expensive holidays  etc. but it's your money, your choice.

 

If I buy a battery, exhaust and a cam belt and pay to have them fitted, it will cost more than the car cost me. 

I'm doing it, because I can't be arsed not to. 

[sierraman]

45 minutes ago, Cheggers said:

This whole "people taking on monthly payments that can't afford" is one of Autoshite's favourite inverse-snobbery tropes which gets trotted out on a regular basis.

If you look at the figures nationally, the default rate on car finance is actually pretty low compared to other personal finance. Most people can afford the payments which is why they take them on and are accepted by the finance company.

It's not my way of buying cars, same as for most folks on here, but who are we to criticise other people's choices? - I'm sure if you asked 99% of the population who was the weird one they'd choose the Invacar owner over the guy/girl with the leased 1 Series.

I think the gist of what he means is  the unsustainable nature of over committing financially to things, sometimes you have to let people make their own mistakes. 

Doesn’t make a difference to me if someone is out on their arse because they’ve mortgaged up to the hilt and there is an economic downturn. 

[Mudster]

33 minutes ago, Cheggers said:

This whole "people taking on monthly payments that can't afford" is one of Autoshite's favourite inverse-snobbery tropes which gets trotted out on a regular basis.

If you look at the figures nationally, the default rate on car finance is actually pretty low compared to other personal finance. Most people can afford the payments which is why they take them on and are accepted by the finance company.

It's not my way of buying cars, same as for most folks on here, but who are we to criticise other people's choices? - I'm sure if you asked 99% of the population who was the weird one they'd choose the Invacar owner over the guy/girl with the leased 1 Series.

Agree to a point. The problem comes when households spend every last penny every month and have no buffer for the future or for unexpected circumstances. This year will probably be a classic example of why it may be prudent to spend a little less on a monthly basis and build up a rainy day fund if at all possible, and a car on PCP is where a little money can be saved.

The issue to me with PCP is that only the monthly payment is considered rather than the longer term. If somebody could just about afford the £500 a month for HP on a 3 series, they will instead opt for the PCP on a 5 series because it's still £500 a month. They build little to no equity and are encouraged to swap in 3 years keeping them on the steepest part of the depreciation curve. If they took PCP on the 3 series at say £300 and saved the other £200 they would get to an improved financially secure position. So I don't have an issue with PCP as such, but there needs to be an improved longer term financial awareness. 

Unless we can encourage people to save something towards their future pension and social care costs in older age, it will become rather untenable for future generations to support. And anyway, I certainly don't want to work until I'm about to go out in a box. I'm hoping to enjoy freedom from the rat race.

I suspect the default rate for car finance is going to increase quite a bit this year but really hope I am proved wrong.

 

 

[sierraman]

52 minutes ago, chadders said:

You could draw a parallel with spending far more on restoring a car than it'll ever be worth. Some people would spend the money on booze, expensive holidays  etc. but it's your money, your choice.

 

You can’t take it with you after all!

[sierraman]

I always thought people rented appliances if they were in severe financial difficulties? 

 

 

 

*Grabs coat and runs away ?

[Billy - Medhurst]

Used to get this - "Why cant you have a nice car like them" a lot. Took me a long time to drill into the other half about "Surface wealth".

Newish car on the drive but f@ck all in the fridge as everything is financed up to the tits.

Know one now that's having a  hard time and still trying to sell a Range Rover sport since february. 

[AndyIggs]

21 hours ago, Kiltox said:

Moving into the new build estates, you’ll struggle to find anything more than 3/4 years old. PCP is king here I suppose.   Even the second or third car is pretty new, despite there being nowhere to park the fucking thing.  Car wise, the social housing and the owner occupied / private rented doesn’t seem to have much difference really. 

Definitely agree with this but not on my estate, I'm well against the trend rocking around in my 18 year old TT and 14 year old fiesta, some of the looks you get are funny! I could quite easily afford a PCP/rental etc but I choose not to and use the money elsewhere.

[SiC]

Oooh another inverse snobbery thread on Autoshite!

[SiC]

Lease or PCP can make perfect sense if you want a car but don't know/have a good garage to rely on. Or you can't fix things yourself. 

Case in point. Buy a £1000 shitter car for daily transport. Year's tax is £120-300. MOT is £50. Already equivalent to a £100 pcm appliance if the car lasts a year. If that shitter car goes wrong you're instantly worse off. Make it last more than a year you're in break even. 

Not everyone wants to drive an appliance. So spend £2k-4k on something a bit nicer/more modern/more performance (pick two). 4k car needs to last 2 years in that time to break even on a new PCP/Lease. In that time probably will need tyres and possibly brakes but definitely needs a service + MOT. Anything major go wrong and you're paying more. 

Get a A5 on a 2 year lease for £268pcm amortised. Tax is cheaper than most older stuff, performance better, way safer, etc. But the key thing is that as it's a new car all the consumables are brand new. Probably in that 2 years won't need a service. If it breaks you lob it back at a dealer to fix. 

This is why my wife's friend husband finances his cars. He has zero interest in fixing them himself (nor the skill) and has even less interest dealing with local garages to potentially fixing them. So even though it's possible to be winning, it's far less risk for him to plop £300pcm down on a lease. Despite very much being the stereotypical frugal accountant. 

[wuvvum]

8 hours ago, Cheggers said:

I'm sure if you asked 99% of the population who was the weird one they'd choose the Invacar owner over the guy/girl with the leased 1 Series.

I think a high percentage of the population of Autoshite would probably agree with them on that particular point. 

[Tadhg Tiogar]

1 hour ago, wuvvum said:

I think a high percentage of the population of Autoshite would probably agree with them on that particular point. 

...with the possible exception of maybe @LightBulbFun

[Kiltox]

7 hours ago, SiC said:

Lease or PCP can make perfect sense if you want a car but don't know/have a good garage to rely on. Or you can't fix things yourself. 

Case in point. Buy a £1000 shitter car for daily transport. Year's tax is £120-300. MOT is £50. Already equivalent to a £100 pcm appliance if the car lasts a year. If that shitter car goes wrong you're instantly worse off. Make it last more than a year you're in break even. 

Not everyone wants to drive an appliance. So spend £2k-4k on something a bit nicer/more modern/more performance (pick two). 4k car needs to last 2 years in that time to break even on a new PCP/Lease. In that time probably will need tyres and possibly brakes but definitely needs a service + MOT. Anything major go wrong and you're paying more. 

Get a A5 on a 2 year lease for £268pcm amortised. Tax is cheaper than most older stuff, performance better, way safer, etc. But the key thing is that as it's a new car all the consumables are brand new. Probably in that 2 years won't need a service. If it breaks you lob it back at a dealer to fix. 

This is why my wife's friend husband finances his cars. He has zero interest in fixing them himself (nor the skill) and has even less interest dealing with local garages to potentially fixing them. So even though it's possible to be winning, it's far less risk for him to plop £300pcm down on a lease. Despite very much being the stereotypical frugal accountant. 

Where can I get an A5 for £268 amortised over 2 years?! Surely more like £400

[sierraman]

13 minutes ago, Kiltox said:

Where can I get an A5 for £268 amortised over 2 years?! Surely more like £400

Bullshit! It’s £250 plus VAT, and £3,000 initial deposit over 24 months 8k a year. So to Joe Soap in the street that over £400 a month...

I did actually advise my sister in law to get a PCP the other day as it goes, never maintains any of the cars she has, runs then until they literally seize. She mentioned an SUV so I suggested a Dacia Duster and get a service plan with it. Anyway it’s not very ‘premium’ so it’s out the window. 

[vaughant]

On 8/7/2020 at 11:58 AM, warch said:

If you'll permit me, this is a result of the British preoccupation with class and snobbery about anything regarded as pauperish. Weirdly this has nothing to actual posh people, lots of upper class types drive ancient dilapidated cars because they won't waste money replacing something merely because it is old.

I think it is a modern upwardly mobile working class thing, where conspicuous consumption is equated with social status. How better to let everyone know how well you are doing than to have a 20plate SUV on your drive? The housing association estate at the far end of my village is an exercise in oneupmanship, everyone has newish or late plate crossovers and pickups. Someone even had a 993 911 for about a week (until it shat it's gearbox).   

So, so so accurate. 

Mate of mine offshore, earning say £80k, pretty much tax free due to his away time, RENTING in a council house in gateshead, been with the same Mrs all his life so no divorce to bankrupt him. 

That year was the 1st year they'd declared they lived together, she got offered the house for I think £50k after it had been done up, total bargain!!! 

So I asked him "are you going to use your tax rebate as a bit of a deposit?" 

 

"nah, got next door to me had just bought a new A6 estate, but we want the higher spec model. Going to take my test again when I get back". 

 

FFS. 

Saw a (known to me) REALLY rich old dude in the bakery last week, m reg merc E280 cabby, still clean  but not mint in blue with cream leather, single digit plate etc, probably a £2k car with a £100k plate. 

But, it still works and I'm sure he's enjoying it rather than spunking £80k on a new one. 

Old money is much harder to spot. 

[SiC]

Where can I get an A5 for £268 amortised over 2 years?! Surely more like £400

 

Typical, I should have linked to the deals at the time! Seem to have disappeared and now just A4 deals on atm.

£323 is the best atm for an A4. Still way less than £400.

 

https://www.leaseloco.com/car-leasing/audi/a4-saloon/35-tfsi-technik-4dr/10588/2-24-5000-12-0

 

If less than a £260 pcm amortised is critical, then you can get a perfectly decent and nice Octavia estate with the 1.5tsi. Realistic 10k p/a too.

https://www.leaseloco.com/car-leasing/skoda/octavia-estate/15-tsi-se-technology-5dr/17184/2-24-10000-9-0

 

 

 

[Kiltox]

Interesting stuff, thanks chief. 

Sticking with the Exxon5 for a bit but sub £300 leases do appeal

[SiC]

2 minutes ago, Kiltox said:

Interesting stuff, thanks chief. 

Sticking with the Exxon5 for a bit but sub £300 leases do appeal

Usual Pistonheads mantra of shop for a deal, not shop for a model. One week it's cheap A5s, next it's cheap A4s and then another is cheap Golf Rs! Saw about the A5 as happened to have a look when a mate was moaning his 12 year old red vRS is suffering from bad lacquer peel and his wife was finding it embarrassing.

Want an appliance that would keep most non car happy? Well for £190pcm, have a Fiesta! Just picked it out the list too, so probably better deals too. 

https://www.leaseloco.com/car-leasing/ford/fiesta/10-ecoboost-95-active-edition-5dr/15283/2-24-8000-9-0

Ford Fiestas aren't exactly small now either. Not far off a Focus mk1 iirc?