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Further adventures of the Renault 6 - update p7 - Honin' In The Honeyard


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4 hours ago, djoptix said:

I hate throwing anything away but I think the air filter has probably had it.

 

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I treated mine to a new filter a few weeks back.  They are one of the things that are still readily available and cheap.

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If it makes you feel nay better, the engine in my 5 (which looks pretty similar) was in a bad way when I got it, don't know if something fell down the carb or it got over revved and it was a broken bit of piston/ring that made the combustion chamber on one cylinder look like the surface of the moon (the ones either side weren't too pretty either) but I cleaned up the head with Dremel tools as best I could, put it back together and got another 20,000 miles out of it. Then I found a good used engine to replace it.

The gunk and rust isn't pretty but taking it to bits for inspection is free. As others have said, you may have enough good bits between the two engines for one good one.

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The more I look at it the more I think cylinder 4 is the problem. Significant corrosion and gunk at the bottom of the piston skirt.

IMG_20200808_101044.thumb.jpg.348cfb22d03a4e3c94cf6f5307647277.jpg

Cylinder 3 looks like it's allowed some plus gas past the rings. Cylinder 2 is dry (bears out the theory that the piston has kept the moisture out). And cylinder 1 is at the bottom of its stroke, but dry. 

IMG_20200808_101059.thumb.jpg.99ae82c486e70334b2a75ba32a2d001d.jpg

 

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13 minutes ago, nigel bickle said:

Immerse it completely in. a trough of diesel for around a week  That’ll free it off   - without further damage.      Or it’s borked .

Either way, youll know where you stand. Total outlay.? 10 litres of derv, that can go thru a motor later

Or if you're a Yorkshireman, pour a small amount of diesel down each bore, then recycle via your car.

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To be sure of what is happening I would be tempted to remove the cylinder head, as the valves will probably need checking / grinding in anyway. This will also allow to you to lubricate the tops of the pistons and bash them in both directions. There are new gaskets in the spares stash that I sent with the car. You will need to clamp the liners down and are supposed to use the special Renault tool, which of course is unobtainium, but I have seen large washers mentioned as an alternative. I used a piece of Dexion angle, suitably adjusted, diagonally across the top of the block, held down by two of the original head bolts spaced with lengths of 15mm copper pipes cut to length, which I think worked OK. See the photo below:

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Take your time and don't despair yet. There seems a lot to do but perseverance will get you there in the end.
 

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This thread reminds me of the purple 1100. Keep in there, when things start going bad and you resolve it, you'll get those immense satisfaction. 

Once you get the engine back in, running and moving, you've pretty much saved this car. The rest like welding are easily sorted by many if/when you come to move it on from lack of mojo. 

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5 hours ago, busmansholiday said:

Or if you're a Yorkshireman, pour a small amount of diesel down each bore, then recycle via your car.

'Ark at t'millionare over 'ere pouring t'diesel down all t'bores at once!

I'll cycle the same 212.5ml of diesel through each cylinder in turn and then recycle it.

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Personally I'd pull the liners out as well. They usually have a set of "O" rings as seals and having been stood so long will probably be bollocked anyway.

Between two engines you should* be able to get a set of four pistons and liners to put her back together without tooooooo many problems.

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I thought the liners would / should have O-rings under them but the two I pulled out of the original engine only appeared to have the remains of some sort of very thin papery gasket which didn't seem robust enough for this application, but what do I know.
 

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The engine has been sent to the shed to think about what it has done. Luckily I keep things meticulously* tidy* so no risk of losing anything... I've just spotted the dizzy drive gear on the vice there.

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Removed the clutch - I reckon @paulplom can re-use that?

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@Slowsilver I think you're probably right, it might have to all come apart. I just have TEH FEAR of knocking the liners out because of your experience ?

I did remove a main bearing cap, just to check those weren't seized. But it looks OK...?

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Really should have put some gloves on...

 

At least one machine has worked correctly this weekend.

I really, really like this. It has three speed settings so you can actually be quite gentle with it - ideal if you're afraid of shearing off old bolts. I reckon 90% of jobs I only need this plus my socket set.

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On the plus side, the engine you have there looks massively better than the one that came with the car.

Regarding getting it free and rotating.  I would *definitely* do that with the silly-in-der-head still on.  Plenty of diesel/wd40/atf/penetrating oil of your choice down the bores and then work the crank back and forth until it frees.  Work the engine round a few times to see if the seize has left a "dint" on the bores.  Only then would I have the cylinder head off, otherwise you'll just have a couple of seized pistons in their bores loose on the bench.

It sounds like the inlet or exhaust manifold has been quite full of water, so a head clean-up, grind-in of the valves and general freshen is definitely the order of the day.  It will probably look really grotty, but all clean up quite nicely.

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I think it will be very difficult to get the crankshaft to rotate with all four pistons still attached, especially if more than one has seized. I would suggest that you do what I did with the other engine, which was to remove all four big end caps and then attempt to move each piston individually. You can do this with the crankshaft and cylinder head still in place and it will also allow you to find out which ones have seized and which are free.
 

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5 hours ago, PhilA said:

Just note, use a length of wood poked up inside the base of the piston if you go that route. (It is a good route).

Don't hammer the big end caps without them being attached to the crank, you'll put them out of round.

 

 

10 hours ago, Slowsilver said:

I think it will be very difficult to get the crankshaft to rotate with all four pistons still attached, especially if more than one has seized. I would suggest that you do what I did with the other engine, which was to remove all four big end caps and then attempt to move each piston individually. You can do this with the crankshaft and cylinder head still in place and it will also allow you to find out which ones have seized and which are free.
 

 

Thanks chaps. A bit of advice if I may then - @PhilA I had thought the same about the big end caps so I haven't hammered them. I have a long drift (metal rod) which I can reach the underside of the piston skirt with, and then tap it with a hammer.

I may have already tapped* it with a small* hammer in this way. But nothing has happened ;)

  • I haven't tapped the piston skirt itself
  • I haven't tapped the piston crown

What is it safe to hit and with what? Options are: Ooh wait - I can do a diagram for this:

771966401_ScreenShot2020-08-10at11_00_22.thumb.png.aca048f57af3f684184c2322e66447cf.png

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Absolutely do not tap the piston skirt, you will damage it.  Only tap the crown.    Not a lot of space, but use the largest possible piece of hard wood for preference to spread the load, not a narrow metal drift.  Also if you have access to the ring gear teeth and a suitable fulcrum on the block, you may be able to lever it either way with a large screwdriver etc. to turn the crank.

Best to remove the big end cap from the one you are tapping/thumping, otherwise crank will absorb most of the thump.

BTW you are doing all this about right, watching with interest.

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Answer: biggest piece of pine you can find that'll fit between the crank and wedged up between the rod and the inside of the skirt, if you can get it to sit on the inside of the crown all the better.

Do not use metal, those pistons are soft in comparison. Also if you accidentally scrape the wood against the crank journal it doesn't do any damage to that either.

Even a stout piece of inch dowel would be good just to get in and hammer on. The action of shock loads like that will help the lubricant getting around the rings.

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Strongest part underneath is at the bottom edge of the gudgeon. The shape of that is going to want to split the wood but that's all part of the fun*.

Once you can get it to move that's good. If you can get them to shift, pull the crank, pull the head then have a go at knocking them back down the liner- just make sure they don't chatter the liners though. 

Phil

 

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1 hour ago, PhilA said:

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That's the bit I've been hitting - the web (not sure if that's the right word?) under the gudgeon pin.

I will try and find some decent wood. I did have a little tap at it with some pine but it just splintered.

Next time I have half an hour I think I will take @Slowsilver's suggestion and remove the crank, and start working on each piston individually.

 

tenor.gif

 

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Yup, you're doing good then!

Whack it a few times then leave it to soak and go have a beer, wait until tomorrow, repeat.

Low stress work. Take out the day's frustration on it then walk away feeling better. If it actually moves then that's an added bonus. If not, oil it up and move on.

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1 hour ago, bunglebus said:

With it upside down surely you can apply WD40/diesel/ATF/yoghurt or whatever to the underside of the pistons too? 

Yes, that's what I've been doing. Still haven't got round to getting any diesel so it's just getting wd40 at the moment. There's a tub of red diesel at work so I'll scrounge some tomorrow. 

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Anything is better than nothing; especially when left to soak in, particularly if it has good creep characteristics.

WD-40 isn't the right stuff for this but it's better than just trying to wallop and free up a dry set of rings.

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