djoptix Posted August 30, 2020 Author Share Posted August 30, 2020 6 minutes ago, sloth said: I do wonder what it would be like with an 11 turbo engine.... If this engine can't be salvaged, I'll bung a K series in it. mk2_craig and barefoot 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloth Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 now we a re talking. even with the 1.4 103bhp it would be mental Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post djoptix Posted August 30, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 30, 2020 Last night nanoOptix had tonsilitis (she's 3) so no head removal shenanigans for me. I had to go and find a pharmacy at 10PM etc etc. I've been reading back over @Slowsilver's thread and amusing* myself by noting all the same problems that we're coming up against. I knew there was trouble in store with a couple of the head studs - these are the culprits; the lack of clearance between the rockers means you can't get a socket in, not even a thin wall one. What I needed was Renault special tool 84guétt3-0n10N or something, but I don't have one of those, so I did some thinking and some rummaging through my box of Spanners That Don't Belong. A 14mm ring spanner will drop in around the rockers but of course you can't actually get it on the stud, but it does fit. A plan was hatched, and damn I'm going to feel good if it works. Chop it... Boom Grind off the plating on one side, for better purchase and that... Same treatment to a spare 1/4" drive socket (I don't think I'll ever need 7/16ths)... Clamp it Tack it Weld it properly* HOLY SHIT. IT FUCKING FITS Abuse 1/4" ratchet handle with Citroen BX sphere removal tool IT'S COME UNDONE!! I AM A FABRICATION DEMI-GOD Having freed off one stud, I have now had to go and give nanoOptix a bath. Hopefully I can remove both studs and whip* the head off later. What could possibly go wrong? How hard can that be? Etc... rainagain, Slowsilver, cobblers and 56 others 52 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mally Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 1/4 drive ratchet on a head stud! Braver than me. 500tops, Mr_Bo11ox, djoptix and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djoptix Posted August 30, 2020 Author Share Posted August 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, Mally said: 1/4 drive ratchet on a head stud! Braver than me. To be honest, if it weren't Halfords Advanced I would definitely have been thinking twice. If I break it I can take it back and get it replaced for free. Heidel_Kakao, Burnside, Datsuncog and 3 others 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scdan4 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 Fooken mazing. ? Fortune favours the brave Rodney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowsilver Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 If you read my post on page 10 of the original thread from 03/09/2018 you will have seen my solution: Quote This time: 1/4" drive waisted socket into 1/4" to 3/8" adaptor into 3/8" to 1/2" adaptor into 1/2" drive resistance-is-useless breaker bar. Success! Thought something was going to break but eventually, with a very loud crack, the bolt came undone. On to the next one. This time the socket would not fit in under the rocker arms. I think this was because of their position. Over the first bolt one valve was open and one closed, hence the rocker arms were at different heights, but over the second bolt both valves were closed, hence the rocker arms were both at the same height. Judicious use of a grinding stone in a Dremel soon saw a couple of millimetres ground off the inside of the head casting in the appropriate place (visible top right of photo below) and CRACK! the second bolt was also undone. Job done, you would think, but not entirely. The bolts could now only be undone a couple of turns with the socket before it jammed on the underside of the rocker arms and could not be removed. So more fiddling required with long-nosed pliers and fingers on the (now loose) bolts. But eventually all the head bolts are out. YAY! You might have also succeeded this way, but good to know that you found another successful solution. The "proper" Renault way to do this is to remove the clips from the rocker shafts and pull them out. There are two separate half-length shafts, one pulls out from the front of the head and one from the back. But the ones in the original head refused to budge so desperate measures were required.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkyarddog Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 Nice idea! I can remember my dad making tools to fit his old Renault 4. Bending spanners to fit in certainly spaces spring to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djoptix Posted August 30, 2020 Author Share Posted August 30, 2020 Shit just got real. Heidel_Kakao, Tepper, Amishtat and 25 others 28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk2_craig Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 Ace!! I'll be interested to see what you rig up as a means of clamping those liners in. Have you added any heat into the equation anywhere yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan_dyane Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 Nice Now leave them with diesel in overnight and I’m sure they’ll tap out tomorrow. New rings, a hone and valves ground in and you’re off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkyarddog Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 Hopefully those bores may clean up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowsilver Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 10 minutes ago, mk2_craig said: Ace!! I'll be interested to see what you rig up as a means of clamping those liners in. One solution already posted: Quote To be sure of what is happening I would be tempted to remove the cylinder head, as the valves will probably need checking / grinding in anyway. This will also allow to you to lubricate the tops of the pistons and bash them in both directions. There are new gaskets in the spares stash that I sent with the car. You will need to clamp the liners down and are supposed to use the special Renault tool, which of course is unobtainium, but I have seen large washers mentioned as an alternative. I used a piece of Dexion angle, suitably adjusted, diagonally across the top of the block, held down by two of the original head bolts spaced with lengths of 15mm copper pipes cut to length, which I think worked OK. See the photo below: Take your time and don't despair yet. There seems a lot to do but perseverance will get you there in the end. djoptix, Datsuncog and paulplom 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunglebus Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 That one's going to be interesting. Also, y tho? Coprolalia, Mally, djoptix and 7 others 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djoptix Posted August 30, 2020 Author Share Posted August 30, 2020 My grater is amused by that. Fumbler, greengartside, Burnside and 8 others 1 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somewhatfoolish Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 Remove the liners with the pistons still in and immerse in vinegar or generic effervescent brown soft drink; within a day or two the rust will have miraculously disappeared as fast as your stomach lining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowsilver Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 8 minutes ago, somewhatfoolish said: Remove the liners with the pistons still in and immerse in vinegar or generic effervescent brown soft drink; within a day or two the rust will have miraculously disappeared as fast as your stomach lining. You would think so but the ones on the original engine were soaked in vinegar for about a month, then cheap cola for about the same time again. During this time they were also heated several times to about 250 degrees C in a domestic oven and allowed to cool. Did they move. No way! Never did get round to trying diesel and/or ATF though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supernaut Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 wuvvum, somewhatfoolish, Ghosty and 7 others 1 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somewhatfoolish Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 28 minutes ago, Slowsilver said: You would think so but the ones on the original engine were soaked in vinegar for about a month, then cheap cola for about the same time again. During this time they were also heated several times to about 250 degrees C in a domestic oven and allowed to cool. Did they move. No way! Never did get round to trying diesel and/or ATF though. To be fair they looked utterly fucked, whereas these are only lightly fucked. djoptix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djoptix Posted August 30, 2020 Author Share Posted August 30, 2020 42 minutes ago, Slowsilver said: You would think so but the ones on the original engine were soaked in vinegar for about a month, then cheap cola for about the same time again. During this time they were also heated several times to about 250 degrees C in a domestic oven and allowed to cool. Did they move. No way! Never did get round to trying diesel and/or ATF though. I have to back up @Slowsilver here - the originals are very very seized. I can hardly swing the con rod at all (the gudgeon pin is almost solid). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post djoptix Posted August 30, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 30, 2020 EXCITING UPDATE TIME/many many Y THOs So here's what they actually looked like when I took the head off. I'd read that the heads can be difficult to remove but this one popped up just on the valve spring pressure. Cylinder #1 has some stuff in it. Cylinder #2 is ruuuuusty (this is the one that had water in). Cylinder #3 is the best one - this is the one that did actually allow the diesel past the rings: Cylinder #4 is actually the worst. I vacuumed the bits out, scraped round the piston tops, and cleaned them out with a sponge soaked in diesel. After that they looked a lot better. The feel of the bores was telling. #4 is rough and in a bit of a state. I am worried about that one. #s 3, 2 and 1 all feel pretty good actually. #1 #2 #3 #4 So - nothing to lose here - I engaged in a bit of tap-tap-taparoo with a length of pine. #3 moved really easily but more tapping ensued and... Yes dear readers. I am delighted to report that I have DOWNWARD MOVEMENT ON ALL FOUR PISTONS, and no discernible movement of the liners so far. Rather than knocking the pistons out (I don't have any appropriately-sized bits of wood to stand the block on at the moment anyway), I have left it like this: I'll give the diesel another week to see if it can penetrate past the rings, before actually knocking the pistons out. MorrisItalSLX, grizgut, Datsuncog and 49 others 52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina door handles Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 Really great progress, I am enjoying this thread! BlankFrank, djoptix, LightBulbFun and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Longbridge Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 Well worth the perseverance to get to this point. I'm pretty sure Bob wheezed a quiet 'bravo!' in the hope that he may eventually hit tarmac once again. Fingers crossed number four isn't too battered. djoptix, Burnside, BlankFrank and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandeth Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Excellent progress. I reckon that engine will live again, will be curious to see what the bores look like after a good hone. djoptix and LightBulbFun 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulgalour Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Bonus extra points for using an LHM sphere removal tool as an extension bar! LightBulbFun, djoptix, Burnside and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilA Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 These were assembled with a remarkably high level of precision to begin with; probably because Renault knew that nothing would ever get maintained, so they will run pretty well with remarkably large amounts of abuse. That looks just fine*. Scouring pad and some dishwashing soap and she'll be reet. Twiggy, djoptix, nigel bickle and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djoptix Posted August 31, 2020 Author Share Posted August 31, 2020 I tidied up my special tool. Might need to use it again for reassembly! rob88h, Twiggy, LightBulbFun and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ETCHY Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Superb work, i'm enjoying this a lot. It's fighting you all the bloody way but you seem to be winning & great job on making the tool. If all else fails you could now go on "Dragons Den" & try & market your R6 special stud removal tool !? Datsuncog 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tadhg Tiogar Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 6 minutes ago, ETCHY said: Superb work, i'm enjoying this a lot. It's fighting you all the bloody way but you seem to be winning & great job on making the tool. If all else fails you could now go on "Dragons Den" & try & market your R6 special stud removal tool !? Hopefully he can remember which bits go where when he reassembles everything. Start worrying if there are bits left over!! djoptix and ETCHY 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djoptix Posted August 31, 2020 Author Share Posted August 31, 2020 2 hours ago, Tadhg Tiogar said: Hopefully he can remember which bits go where when he reassembles everything. Start worrying if there are bits left over!! That is exactly the issue ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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