project 1951 Lanchester LD10 - Rear Corner Inspection

[lesapandre]

Yes Easy Start best avoided as it leads to instant high revs on a cold engine. I keep it as a last resort for my diesels. Great thread - keep on keeping on. A really interesting car. The pre-select is amazing...tiptronic from the steampunk age.

[Tadhg Tiogar]

1 hour ago, DSdriver said:

Use 'super' grade fuel which although it says it is up to 5% ethanol may not have any depending on supplier. Ethanol turned the rubber fuel pipes on my DS into black goo.

I expect you already know this but it may save others from a world of pain.

Are you on marine-grade fuel lines now?

[DSdriver]

3 hours ago, Tadhg Tiogar said:

Are you on marine-grade fuel lines now?

Yes and the annoying petrol smell has gone from the cabin of the car.

[vulgalour]

A little more progress today on the Lanchester, trying to clear off some of the busy work items.  Yesterday, I did a little research on what carburettor kit was required, I knew the manual listed the car as having a Zenith 30 VIG-3, I also know from owning French cars that what the manual says might not be the whole truth, so I checked the model number which is C1226.  This told me the car is fitted with a Zenith 30 VIG-5 so an appropriate service kit was ordered from www.Burlen.co.uk since they have always provided decent parts at sensible prices before so seemed a good bet here.

I also ordered some new cleaning fluid for the ultrasonic cleaner since we're all out and that should make cleaning the carburettor a lot easier.  Nothing to do on the carburettor or anything else now until new parts arrive, found a few more items very easily at surprisingly affordable prices so there's some more bits and bobs on the way.  In the meantime, I wanted to sort out the bonnet latch-mascot, it had become quite annoying to use because of the front bolt/stud being completely missing.  The first issue was access, since it's not very good (probably why the bolt/stud wasn't refitted) and I first thought the four bolts in the return of the bonnet nose were to remove the baffle, they're not, they remove the Lanchester emblem.  Eventually, I worked out how to get the latch-mascot off.  First you have to remove the split pin that holds the pivot pin in place that keeps the latch assembly attached to the mascot.  Neither pin is a tight fit, so both slide out quite easily.  Then you can open the latch far enough to get to the four screws that hold the latch to the mascot, and finally undo the one nut that is still holding everything to the bonnet.  With the assembly off the car I could then have a rummage for a suitable bolt or stud and found I was in luck with a bolt that was exactly the right length and thread type.  Assembly is reversal of removal, fitting the new bolt meant threading it through the hole, lining it up with the latch-mascot base and then doing it all up mostly blind.  A regular ring spanner was then used to tighten the bolt and all of the parts were put back together.

That's one of the most annoying items on the car now dealt with.  It probably should be a stud and not a bolt but since we're not aiming for concourse here, and what I've done isn't a bodge, it'll suffice.  Next was to deal with the wobbly engine side panels, for which we have no fixings since they didn't come with the car.  I worked out what size the floating captive nuts were and found size suitable cross-head bolts and washers to go in.  What I didn't do was check both sides were the same and learned on the passenger side (which has that newer looking wing), the captive nuts are an entirely different thread so I had to use entirely different bolts.  I'll likely paint these bolt heads black just so they're less obvious. There's also two nuts and bolts required at the front, and one at the rear, on both panels.  They're now much more rigid and the body lines look just a little better.  There is a wing piping style seal on the vertical rear seam on the passenger side panel, I don't know if that's correct or if there should be any sort of seals at all on this panel.

I also rerouted the water temperature guage wire which had been flopping about in the engine bay and being a little annoying.  I did what seemed correct, again I'm not sure of the proper routing with this, so I just tried to run it in a way that matched its general shape and didn't put it under stress.  There was a P clip that lined up with the middle bolt on the side panel so I used that as an anchor point for the wire.  I also checked the wire didn't foul any moving parts.

It took quite a while to do those jobs, as these sorts of jobs often do.  Actually lining up the bolt holes for the side panels was particularly annoying since the panel seemed to want to sit in just the wrong place for lining up one bolt as you were trying to get everything in.  I was left with enough time to do some tidying up in the engine bay at least, the goal is to degrease and generally make the engine bay a nicer place to be.  We've also noticed the car is now leaking oil onto the garage floor underneath the gearbox and fluid flywheel, so that explains why the levels in those was low, it may need new seals.  the water pump was quite greasy, especially around the grease nipple.  I suppose that bodes well since it means someone has been keeping it greased.  Cleaning this off will allow us to see any leaks.  A friend in America wondered if the weird smell of the coolant is due to methanol being added, apparently something that people used over there before coolant as we know it was introduced.

The rest of the engine bay got a very light clean with first some kitchen degreaser on the bodywork to get the bulk of the grime off quickly, I do this by spraying it on, agitating it with a soft brush and then rinsing almost immediately so you don't end up damaging the paint.  After that I wiped down the surfaces with glass cleaner, which I've also found very effective in engine bays particularly.  The inner wings and bulkhead have all got brush strokes in the black paint so I expect it's all been repainted at some point in the past.  When the carburettor is cleaned and rebuilt and the bottom half of the engine bay is degreased it should be quite a nice space to work in.

I did wonder if there's supposed to be something on the driver's side 'shelf' under the bonnet hinge.  There's several neat holes drilled in that panel as if something was screwed down there at some point.

[PhilA]

Would guess not much of size; anything bulky would foul the hinge.

Also yes, replacing water with methanol is a recommended coolant for my Pontiac in freezing conditions so it's quite possible.

Also, tractor supply stores for the correct 30-weight oil (just saw the oil filler cap). It's still common on older tractors and is nice and cheap because you're on a fairly regular oil change schedule compared to newer cars. 

Looking better with each update though!

 

Phil

[barefoot]

9 minutes ago, PhilA said:

Also, tractor supply stores for the correct 30-weight oil (just saw the oil filler cap). It's still common on older tractors and is nice and cheap because you're on a fairly regular oil change schedule compared to newer cars. 

I didn't know that.

[PhilA]

3 minutes ago, barefoot said:

I didn't know that.

It's where I get the oil and antifreeze from for mine. Farmers like to buy in bulk too, so that drives the price down. 

This will probably ok with detergent oil because it has a proper oil filter. Mine does better with non detergent oil and a regular oil pan de-sludge schedule as was designed.

 

Phil

[martc]

1 hour ago, vulgalour said:

A friend in America wondered if the weird smell of the coolant is due to methanol being added, apparently something that people used over there before coolant as we know it was introduced.e point.

I wouldn't be sure it's methanol, as methanol is odourless and volatile. But be careful because if it is there it can damage nerves and turn you blind. So, contrary to my previous advice, don't bathe in it.

As noted mingebaggery was a big thing back in the day and according to my Autocar 'Look After Your Car' (undated but probably from the '40's) glycerine was a common antifreeze*.  Unlike methanol glycerine is not volatile, and, although odourless when pure, I could imagine it would breakdown/react with time and heat to give products which would smell (as would the 'specially prepared ethylene glycol'). Methanol wouldn't do this, it would just disappear.

* Quote - 'Winter frosts can be a source of anxiety. Fortunately, today, there is a wide variety of anti-freeze mixtures, ranging from a commercial glycerine bottled by the multiple chemists to a specially prepared ethylene glycol.'

[vulgalour]

That then does make more sense.  I don't actually know what these things smell like, so all I can say is what's in there smells halfway between household emulsion and cellulose thinners while also being apparently colourless, at least what's visible in the top of the radiator.

[Zelandeth]

Useless trivia alert...

Straight 30 weight oil is what the old two stroke Detroit Diesel engines run too... thankfully it's pretty cheap given that an oil change is something like 30 litres if I remember right (on a 6-71 anyway).

[SiC]

Isn't straight 30 what you put in your petrol lawnmower? Probably have little ZDDP in though

[SiC]

Morris lubricants stock SAE 20/30/40/50 oil still

https://www.morrislubricantsonline.co.uk/automotive/vintage-and-classic-cars/engine-oils-en-3/

[vulgalour]

That's what we'd been looking for, thanks for the link.  Shall be stocking up on that when we do the first proper oil change.

[PhilA]

Stuff I bought has zddp in because a lot of older farm machinery is specced for it. 

Worth a stop in to check. I got this about 30% cheaper than buying it online for the same volume.

 

Phil

[SiC]

Duckhams and Comma both do straight weight oil readily available too

[Andyrew]

Granville aswell, as part of the Autosol roadster classic range.

 

[dave j]

Gsf sell Morris straight 30 oil, that's what most aircooled Vw's use 

[Vantman]

This may be useful to you as well----http://www.bluecol.co.uk/nevonproducts/bluecol-u-anti-freeze/

[Angrydicky]

Wouldn't a decent 20w50 multigrade be better for this?

Those old oil grades were specified in the days before multigrades when you had summer and winter grades, and needed to change twice a year.

I use 20w50 in all my old crocks and find I get better oil pressure as it's a tad thicker than that old SAE 30.

[lesapandre]

Be like Vulgalour... 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/293694992118

[Dick Longbridge]

1 hour ago, lesapandre said:

Be like Vulgalour... 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/293694992118

"Seats need recovering...To make this car pristine it would benefit from a respray...I have changed from classic cars to a small fair organ and will need the space."

 

The seller sounds a bit of an organ himself.

[lesapandre]

Depending on the paint being original...but looks to have a nice patina anyway. Seats really probably need gentle repair and new pieces in the worst bits - a retrim wd rob it of that lovely patina old leather has. Not particularly cheap IMHO but looks well loved. Most of these must be owners club cars these days. I'd like to try one myself - perfect for London...ULEZ and LEZ exempt and auto - we could drive anywhere slowly and not too big. I think I'd prefer the Briggs one - looks like it has a bit more room inside.

My organ needs lots of space as well*

*obligatory organ joke.

 

[SiC]

I think the speedo unit painted black suits it quite well and a improvement over the fake wood finish. All the other controls have black facings, so the clocks being them too makes sense imo. 

[lesapandre]

There is no makers mark on them? The panel turned up on the later 14 and Leda.  Manufactured specifically for Lanchester. A work of art in its own right. An offset asymmetrical dash is so cool. 

[Tadhg Tiogar]

2 hours ago, lesapandre said:

....My organ needs lots of space as well*

*obligatory organ joke.

 

Does it not touch the sides?

[lesapandre]

2 hours ago, Tadhg Tiogar said:

Does it not touch the sides?

It does not really touch anything these days...sigh. Old cars are so much more dependable (except Renault Trafics - mine has just disgraced itself by having no lights) Maybe Lanchesters are better...

[PhilA]

5 hours ago, lesapandre said:

There is no makers mark on them? The panel turned up on the later 14 and Leda.  Manufactured specifically for Lanchester. A work of art in its own right. An offset asymmetrical dash is so cool. 

I think it's nice that they put it where you can see it, rather than going for form over function.

[vulgalour]

Had a little free time at lunch to do some more tinkering, encouraged by some new parts arriving, namely the sidelight medallions, replacement washer bottle, and the new carburettor service kit.  It took a while to find out what the medallions were actually called.  The Lanchester uses Lucas LD109A sidelights and on our car at least, comes equipped with the little red transparent insert so that you can see when the sidelights are on from inside the car.  There's no dashboard telltale as you'd get in a modern car so this is quite a neat solution in theory.  One side is present and dull, the other side was missing.  New ones are available again from https://www.s-v-c.co.uk/ for not very much.  We ordered a pair but the old one that's still in the lamp is quite firmly attached so we opted not to replace it.  A little WD40 helped fit the new lens, they're a very tight fit and you have to push down on opposing sides equally to get them to snap into place.

The other item, from http://burlen.co.uk/ was the carburettor service kit which contains all the parts we should need to clean up our carburettor.  Removal was a little tricky without being too frustrating.  I opted to undo the bolt for the throttle linkage rather than unclipping the ball and socket since I was less likely to lose the small clip.  Then there's two nuts that hold the carburettor to the manifold, the choke cable locking screw, and a fitting for what I believe is the vacuum advance line.  I had to be very careful with the latter, I opted to unscrew the carburettor from the line because the two pieces on the end of the line were quite firmly attached to one another and the pipe was trying to twist.  Some heat and penetrating fluid may get these components undone properly.  The fittings look to be brass while the pipe is copper, so it's all very soft and easy to damage.

The carburettor itself isn't too dirty, all things considered.  The heatshield is the dirtiest item due to being covered in barn dust more than anything, and while the carburettor does have some oily deposits, it's far from the worst I've ever encountered and should clean up very well.  I shall be taking lots of reference pictures as I go along with this carburettor, I'm only really familiar with SU types and while this one does look very simple, I don't want to make a silly mistake by not taking care.

The heat shield isn't the original, someone has crafted a sheet of aluminium into a suitable sized square, folding two edges over so there's no sharp bits.  I can't see any reason to replace this shield so I've just cleaned it and will reinstate it.

Our last item of note today is the NOS (or so I thought) washer bottle.  It is a direct replacement for the one in the car, though I question the NOS credentials as it has clearly been fitted to a car previously.  I gave it a rudimentary clean and compared it to the original, aside from a slightly squarer profile to the top of the bottle, all of the other dimensions are the same.

I was most disappointed by the angle grinder gouge out of the top corner.  This wasn't shown in the listing.  Had the bottle not been so cheap I would have kicked up a fuss, as it is it was very cheap and doesn't leak, so it'll have to do.

Aside from not having a massive crack, the new bottle has the added advantage that the cap actually clicks into place properly.  I didn't bother removing what's left of the original sticker, there wasn't really much point, and it looks fine in the engine bay as is.

A small update this time, and mostly busy work.  Hopefully the next update will be the carburettor rebuild and very soon we'll have some new tyres going on.

[Zelandeth]

I'm sure you already know, but make sure when you're looking to unscrew the jets in the carb to use the largest screwdriver that you can get into the slot properly.  The last thing you want to do is round one of them out and end up in a world of pain.  If it won't shift with reasonable force, stop and take a step back and have a look for advice.

When you're looking to remove the adjustment screws, count how many turns it takes to screw them all the way in before you remove them...that way you can make sure things are set to roughly the same point when you put them back together.

[vulgalour]

All sound advice right there.  I'll also be taking lots of pictures and notes as I go so I know where everything actually came from so it can all go back together.  There don't seem to be that many parts, at least, so it shouldn't be too bad.